Theoretical and academic (for now) question about wood

[santaman2000]

Longer poles certainly look more majestic, but our experience has shown that by reducing pole length we also reduced rain running down the poles. Having long poles probably had more to do with status than any practical use, the Indians used to drag the poles when on the move and this would constantly wear away the tips of the poles, for plains Indians, lodge poles were an expensive outlay. On the plains the rain usually came in sideways blown by the wind, turning the smoke flaps or closing them would keep out most of the rain, what rain did come in fell into the fire pit or ran down the poles, here in France and many parts of Europe the rain comes down like stair rods straight into the centre hole, that is why having shorter poles with a rain cap is essential, our poles only stick out by about 2ft-3ft. Cutting poles to exactly the same length ensures you get a natural slope for rain to run off.

You raise some valid and logical points. And to be honest I don't know just how big a tipi the OP wants to make. But size indeed likely had something to do with the traditional native ones. By that i mean size (circumference/diameter at the base) in ratio to height. While a shorter one would provide the advantages you describe, we have to remember that for the Native Americans, they weren't "camping." It was their home. They actually lived in it with their families. Their tipis had a diameter at the base much larger than any modern camping tipi (likely around 20-30 feet in diameter) Can you imagine how little headroom they'd have (except in the center) if the tipis had been shorter?

Granted, these likely aren't concerns the OP need worry about.

 

[franglais]

I think 14ft-16ft was average, the communal lodge would have been larger, our tipis are 16ft, the poles are 18ft long with the tripod poles and door pole being 4"-5" wide, the rest of the poles are around 3" wide, the Indians used a cap which looked like an upturned coracle held down by four pieces of cord, the other advantage of a liner is that it deflects the heat.

 

[santaman2000]

I think 14ft-16ft was average, the communal lodge would have been larger.....,

You might well be right. I can't say with certainty. But it just doesn't seem logical for the reasons I mentioned.

 

[nuggets]

i like them button down shirts them injuns are wearing !! Authentic dress or what ??

 

[21st century pict]

Unsurprisingly once again Robin Wood is right on the man to ask, I went walkaboot last Friday and today in an old railway cutting on the Speyside Way I found some very nice Ash that would be just the job for what you want Hile Troy and also surprisingly to me " but not to RW" some very straight Sycamore.
Ash

Sycamore

 

[santaman2000]

That sycamore is decidedly different from ours. Ours is a shaggy barked tree with huge leaves.

 

[Goatboy]

Santaman, your shown is Platanus occidentalis I think. But there's so many in the family with various quirks that it can be hard to tell without a ID guide and time.

 

[santaman2000]

Santaman, your shown is Platanus occidentalis I think. But there's so many in the family with various quirks that it can be hard to tell without a ID guide and time.

Yep. That's it. Do you know the taxonomy on yours?

 

[Goatboy]

Our only native one is Acer campestre also known as Field or English maple. Though the majority are introduced species. Most folk just group Acers and Platanus together under sycamores or maple.

 

[franglais]

That sycamore is decidedly different from ours. Ours is a shaggy barked tree with huge leaves.

Looks like London Plane.

 

[Goatboy]

Looks like London Plane.

Yup, that's one of the names we give it over here.

 

[santaman2000]

Looks like London Plane.

Not surprisingly. Apparently the London Plane is believed to be a hybrid of the American Sycamore:

Platanus occidentalis, also known as American sycamore, American planetree, Occidental plane, and Buttonwood, is one of the species of Platanus native to North America. It is usually called sycamore in North America, a name which can refer to other types of tree in other parts of the world.


Platanus × acerifolia, London plane, London planetree, or hybrid plane, is a tree in the genus Platanus. It is usually thought to be a hybrid of Platanus orientalis (oriental plane) and Platanus occidentalis (American sycamore). Some authorities think that it may be a cultivar of P. orientalis

 

[21st century pict]

Our only native one is Acer campestre also known as Field or English maple. Though the majority are introduced species. Most folk just group Acers and Platanus together under sycamores or maple.

Hi Goatboy
You got me wondering about which Sycamore this one was, the Native Acer campestre or an Introduced Species , fortunately I took a photo of the leaves which may help an ID, any idea?

 

[Goatboy]

Hi Goatboy
You got me wondering about which Sycamore this one was, the Native Acer campestre or an Introduced Species , fortunately I took a photo of the leaves which may help an ID, any idea?

Hi Pict,

Definitely not the native Acer campestre, leaves are wrong shape. From the leaf shape I'd say either a Norway maple Acer platanoides or a Sycamore maple Acer pseudoplatanus though to be sure size of leaves, tree form and bark are always good. Harvestman may be able to pin it down for you, he's top drawer on ID's and I'm pretty rusty.
Cheers,
Goatboy.

 

[Harvestman]

Trees don't have enough legs for me to be classed as an expert, but the tree in that last picture is sycamore, Acer pseudoplatanus. Norway maple leaves are spikier.

Goatboy you obviously haven't noticed how many identification mistakes I've mad eon this forum, especially with trees.

 

[Macaroon]

If you're not making mistakes you're not thinking properly........................

 

[21st century pict]

Cheers Goatboy
I just had a quick look on Google and Acer pseudoplatanus look quite close. But a fat lot I know.

 

[Goatboy]

Trees don't have enough legs for me to be classed as an expert, but the tree in that last picture is sycamore, Acer pseudoplatanus. Norway maple leaves are spikier.

Goatboy you obviously haven't noticed how many identification mistakes I've mad eon this forum, especially with trees.

I think Harvestmans right, though there can be differences tree to tree. Would have liked to see the fruit or flowers to be 100%. He's being pretty modest I think.

 

[21st century pict]

Trees don't have enough legs for me to be classed as an expert, but the tree in that last picture is sycamore, Acer pseudoplatanus. Norway maple leaves are spikier.

Goatboy you obviously haven't noticed how many identification mistakes I've mad eon this forum, especially with trees.

Oops sorry Harvestman Acer pseudoplatanus you beat me to it, get yourself a large dram.

 

[calgarychef]

Wow, some interesting ideas. First off, liners are indeed original and traditional, and have been used for a very long time. Nothing modern about them at all, even in 1917 they were authentic. Lodge pole pine grows in very thick stands, at least the good poles come from thick stands. They are small diameter, long and grown slowly so they are dense.

If it was me I'd make a yurt or get a bell tent, have you ever seen a vehicle loaded down under a load of teepee poles? Those things are hard to transport and totally unrealistic for this part of the world. I have a yurt, they aren't hard to make, and I made the cover too.