The Endurance SF -10 sleeping bag

[Ryan Woods]

Hello all,
This winter I will be going hiking through the mountainous hills of Queensferry in Scotland. However my Softie 3 will not be able to take on the task of keeping me warm at night.

Therefore I need your help chosing a new winter maggot. I will be camping under basha (as always). If the rarity of freezing in the area does occur I will be using a light 2 person tent. Currenty my eye has caught this and need to know whether this will keep me toasty: SF -10 Nanok

I like this bag because of the cost, that it allowes me to be comfortable at -10 with little clothing. But with wind chill being a possibility (basha downside)do you recommend bringing a fleece liner/bivvy bag or going for something completely different? Like the performance -10 of Nanok?

Lastly can anyone reommend nanok as a company as its the first time Ive heard of them... And as sleeping bags is not my specialisation: with three seasons they mean its suitable for winter, autum and spring but not summer...or is it the other way round, which means I should concider soemthing else?

Greetings all!

PS if I do survive the hypothermia I'll post a couple of piccies

 

[Biddlesby]

And while you're at it, what is the practical difference between the SF -10 and the performance?

 

[arctic hobo]

Type both those queries into the search... those topic has been covered dozens of times. Basically, it's a brilliant bag, and you should buy one from www.outdoorcode.co.uk

 

[JonnyP]

That bag looks good, though it may not keep you warm at minus 10. Also bear in mind it weighs over 2 kg and will be quite bulky, should come with a compression sack. I have one of these http://www.edirectory.co.uk/penrith...CQ_+snugpak+antarctica+re+sleeping+bag&cid=55
I know that I would freeze in it at minus 20.I have slept out at minus 6 in it and was warm. I only use it for winter use where I do not have to carry it too far...............Jon

 

[arctic hobo]

That bag looks good, though it may not keep you warm at minus 10. Also bear in mind it weighs over 2 kg and will be quite bulky, should come with a compression sack. I have one of these http://www.edirectory.co.uk/penrith...CQ_+snugpak+antarctica+re+sleeping+bag&cid=55
I know that I would freeze in it at minus 20.I have slept out at minus 6 in it and was warm. I only use it for winter use where I do not have to carry it too far...............Jon

Careful you do not paint all manufacturers with the same brush!
Nanok and Snugpak have very different marketing methods, one based on honesty, one on figures that look good. I have used the bag you link to and I agree that it would not be safe below -20, or even warmer.
However, Nanok bags have very accurate temperature ratings. I have more than once used them below the stated temperature and slept perfectly
If you search the forums you'll find many rants from me on this subject.

 

[bikething]

And while you're at it, what is the practical difference between the SF -10 and the performance?

The SF is GREEN, has 2 zips and a boot bucket..

The performance is BRIGHT BLUE, has one zip, no boot bucket, and weighs about a kg less IIRC

HTH Steve

 

[Doc]

Usually, BCUK is an excellent source of advice on what to buy. Folowing BCUK recommendations (and tempered by my own experience), over the years I have bought a Sabre 45, a Swannie ranger, a Micarta Woodlore, a Victorinox Farmer, a Platypus water container..... I could go on, but they are all excellent kit, and well worth the outlay.

Sleeping bags are different. There are loads of contradictory opinions, and there is little consensus. Snugpak seem unpopular here, but are commonly used by serving soldiers. I think snugpak bags are very good for their weight and incredible pack size, but I agree that their ratings are over optimistic. From April/May to October I use a Softie 6 - about 1.2 kg and tiny pack size (I've read 7 litres but i'm sure it's less.) Snugpak say comfortable to zero celsius- I would say comfy to plus 5 degrees. This can be boosted with a liner (snugpak fleece liner is bulky and 800g though)

In your shoes I think I'd go for the Nanok -10, as everyone who has got one raves about them. IIRC, they are about 2.4kg and a 17 litre pack size, and about £90 to £100.

Having said that, I've just bought a new winter bag, and went for a brand new long '58 pattern surplus bag. Weighs 2.5kg, but pack size is a good bit more bulky than the Nanok -10. I went for this because I used one throughout the northern Scottish winter in the OTC for 6 years and was never cold, and they are only £45 new (much less if used or standard length - as low as a tenner!). Also I don't do a lot of winter camping, so don't want to spend lots, and bulk is not an issue if I am canoe camping. It also has a waterproof base, so it is quite feasible to sleep out with just a 300g basha, and a closed cell mat.

However, I think in your case the Nanok would be the better option. Or even a modern down bag plus 300g Rab or snugpak Bivi bag to ensure it stays dry.

Another option is the mountain equipment Military TDS 3 (also £100) or a current issue synthetic 'bouncing bomb' PLCE bag (heavy and bulky, but warm.)

 

[pumbaa]

I have a Nanock sf -10 bag witch i think is greatfor all the reasons that seem to have drawn you to it . I went to the dartmoor meet (late october) and sleept warm in just boxers and t-shirt (although i had the pup cuddled up as well) .
I may be wrong on this but i was under the impresion that a 3 season bag was for spring summer and autum . A 4 season would include winter and a 5 season would be for arctic use . I seem to remember reading somewhere that the sf -0 goes inside the -10 for use as a 5 season bag . However my old bag (a survival aids bag made by buffalo) is a 3 season bag also and although the pertex is a bit worse for wear the fleece that is left would likely be enough to use as a linner for 5 season use . the only problem is that the survival aids bag is also bulky (i think you would need a good quality , thick fleece liner) ,so that is 2 bulky bags to lug around . At least you have a versatile system !! Personaly i dont like the 58 pattern bag , firstly the featers always leak out . Secondly it rolls up into its bag , this pushes the down into the edge of its pockets and causes cold spots ! A sleeping bag should be stuffed not rolled .
Pumbaa

 

[Marts]

Reinhardt,

I have found Nanok and Ajungliak bags to both be great, and as some others have said their temperature ratings are much more realistic than some manufacturers.
As Artic Hobo said just type Nanok into the search function and you will find an awful lot of info - including a very eloquent explanation, I think by Artic Hobo himself, on the differences between Nanok's ranges - performance, endurance and comfort.

 

[Ryan Woods]

Type both those queries into the search... those topic has been covered dozens of times. Basically, it's a brilliant bag, and you should buy one from www.outdoorcode.co.uk

Aah the famous search function: forums' best kept secret

I followed your advice and the posts were overwhelmingly positive!! Not just about Andrew and outdoorcode buy also the SF bag. Your experiences with snugpack was also worth the read and armed with personal experience I agree wholeheartedly.

Went to the official Nanok website: seem a dedicated company who are honest about their products. How long does the company exist? And with what company could you compare them: Lowe Alpine, Mahmoud, Berghaus or High Gear, Carrimore, etc?

Anyway, thanks all for the overwhelming advice!! As I'm not going to be in the Norwegian Special Forces for another couple of year I will be purchasing it!! Now I know I wont be disappointed.

 

[JonnyP]

Artic Hobo............I was not aware that Nanok bags will actually keep you warm at the temperatures they give. I thought that all companys are over optamistic on their ratings. I also have one of these, a top quality bag....
http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=26_60&products_id=118
It says the rating is minus 5. I would rate it as 0 degrees, though I notice on that page someone says minus 5 is conservative. I do agree with Doc saying there are lots of different opinions. Bags are very personal, you sleep with them, so you get to know them intimately. It is hard to keep the body temperature just right, I am forever putting on and taking off clothes during the day to keep comfortable. During the night if the temperatue changes, in a single sleeping bag we either get warmer or colder and then judge the bag because of this. Also everybodys metabolic rates are different. Sorry if I am trying to teach you to suck eggs. For me, I try to find out what the temperature is going to be, and judge for myself wether I need a bivi bag and or liner, or just the bag (which ever one its going to be) on its own..................Jon

 

[arctic hobo]

Thanks Marts!

Went to the official Nanok website: seem a dedicated company who are honest about their products. How long does the company exist? And with what company could you compare them: Lowe Alpine, Mahmoud, Berghaus or High Gear, Carrimore, etc?

They're a pretty new company, having split from Ajungilak, I believe when they were taken over by Mammut. I'd say you are spot on with the honesty... that's the one thing I think characterises the business. If you phone Chris at Nanok, 01614320319, he's a top bloke, he'll tell you all about it
They have a bit of a thing, carrying on the honesty theme, for temperature ethics, and there's a great article on their site about the new EU regulation on sleeping bags - I think it's www.nanok.no/eng/temp.htm.
I'm sure if you've read my numerous posts on the topic you're already familiar with my (very lengthy ) opinion, so I won't say any more...
I'm not sure who I'd compare them to, company wise. I mean, honesty about ratings seems to vary a lot. I have found Rab bags to be pretty good, others are slightly worse, and as I'm sure everyone knows I think Snugpak are right at the other end of the scale. They're a small firm, and had trouble recently with the collapse of Perseverance Mills (http://72.36.134.230/community/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=6390), but that's all sorted now.

Anyway, thanks all for the overwhelming advice!!

No problem!

 

[Ryan Woods]

After the disappointment with purchasing a Softie I was naturally weary when I had to purchase my first winter sleeping bag which I will trust my life with in five days when I use it to go trekking through parts of Bonny freeze Scotland. I turned to the wealth of information here, utilizing it, and in the end buying the nanok -10 endurance. It was said temperature ratings are accurate, can sleep in boxers and in another nanok thread it was mentioned they were even comfortable at -12.

Yesterday I arrived at my parents house and got to see it after ordering it a week before. Crept into it fully clothed in the living room, within few minutes I was warm.CHUFFED!! So I decided that as my other brothers nicked the spare bed I decided ill sleep on the floor (with sleeping mat) using my new NANOK even though I feared it be too warm and therefore dressing only in boxers and T shirt. To my disappointment it was the contrary - woke up twice because I was distrubed by the cold and early in the morning my feet had received the bad news. I was shocked!! This wasn't supposed to happen!! Its wasn't freezing outside, I was sleeping inside, windows closed, brothers were snug as a bug using only a single duvet. But because of all the reports here I still have a feeling that I somehow have missed the big red button that has to be switched to ON and am doing something wrong...

What am I doing wrong? I'm 1.78 and a body mass index of 20. So I don't fill the maggot right up, do I have to fully close the top? Tonight I try again or let a bigger brother test it to see whether BMI does make a difference. Tomorrow night ill try sleeping outside it's three degrees celcius above zero.

Lastly, Andrew was great to do Business with, so no problems there!!

 

[Graham_S]

do you have any insulation between yourself and the floor?
the amount (or lack thereof) of insulation under you is very important. no matter how good your sleeping bag, the insulation under you is compressed and is of little use. the ground then convects your body heat away, leaving you cold.
a decent insulating mat (thermarest for example) makes a huge difference.

 

[Razorstrop]

Probably not going to be much help here, but I work outdoors all year and have 3 sleeping bags.

A Vango Predator Synthetic for Summer
A Mountain Equipment Firewalker III synthetic for Spring Summer
A Mountain Equipment Annapurna down, for winter

to give you an idea, the winter bag is rated at -40 degrees C
now i sleep with nothing on ( scary thought ) lol and have found this bag to stand up to everything the great British weather has chucked at it temperature wise.

The Firewalker III is rated at 0 deg C and theres no way on gods earth I would use it at this time of year.

My only real advice to you is to buy a silk liner and see if that improves things. Though one thing you said , do I have to pull the draw srings around me? most certainly as all the hot air you are generating is escaping
Hope some of this helps

Mr Strop

-12 vs -40, no contest

 

[Ryan Woods]

Graham and Mr Strop,
Thanks for your advice. I used both a thermarest and my own sleeping mat. I wonder whether anyone else who owns this bag eperienced a similar sitation?

 

[Graham_S]

the trouble with sleeping bags is that they are very personal items. different people sleep at different temperatures. a bag that is uncomfortably warm for one person may be too cold for another.
as razorstrop suggested, get a liner (which you should use anyway to prolong the life of the bag) and tighten the drawcords to keep the heat in.

 

[JonnyP]

Have you made sure you have been sent the correct bag, try weighing it to make sure. As Razorstrop says doing up the baffle will keep the heat in and you lose about 30% heat through your head so doing up the hood will help. A silk liner is great but will only warm it by about half a season more.
I am worried about what you have said, I was thinking about getting one after reading the good reports as I too am disapointed with my so called artic bag. Keep us posted...............Jon

 

[JonnyP]

Just another thought.........Maybe the bag has been kept compressed for a long time, bags should be stored open, so try leaving it open for for a while..........Jon

 

[arctic hobo]

Very surprised... talked to possibly hundreds of people with this bag who have never reported anything like that... seems to be a bit of an anomaly, especially as it felt warm when you tried it the first time. Perhaps it is worth trying again, and if still no success, trying with clothes on or a hat or something. If the hood is not done up you can lose an enormous amount of heat through your head.
I know everybody says that bags are meant to be slept in naked/underwear, but it's definitely worth trying the Endurance series with clothes on, because they are military-oriented bags, not camping oriented bags. Hence the boot bucket - that's there because you may have your boots on, ie all your clothes on. See how you get on, let us know as well