The banning of knives!!

Bushmaster

Forager
Oct 17, 2004
115
0
61
Scotland
Hi all, I have just been reading a copy of a tabloid newspaper who are setting up a campaign to try and get the laws governing the carrying of knives tightened.Making it illegal to carry a knife in a public place. :shock:
Now I always carry my folding lock knife and a fire steel everywhere I go (you never know) and a friend of mine always has his swiss army knife with him. Does anyone out there know if we will be breaking the law, as it is you must prove why you are carrying one.Do you think the statement " I am into bushcraft/survival techniques" will be acceptable?
Geoff
:cry:
 

tomtom

Full Member
Dec 9, 2003
4,283
5
38
Sunny South Devon
acording to "ask a cop" on British Blades.. it is a good enough reason to carry even a fixed blade.. though that might only be the case were you in the country side or such like im not sure if you were searched in tescos and said it was for Bushcraft that they would consider it the same!
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
I was once told by a very wise person that you can get away with an awful lot in this world if you keep a low profile and don't make spectacle of yourself - and it's worked for me flawlessly so far ... touch wood it will continue to do so.
 

ChrisKavanaugh

Need to contact Admin...
I would suggest all law abiding knife owners should immediately band together and A. launch a counter media campaign through every other news source and B. Let this tabloid know of your displeasure by writing their commercial sponsors. A polite 'Letter to the Editor' will most likely be routed to their round file in favour of some Mrs. Doubtfire type responding with a 'Good on You for making us safer' reply.
 

hobbitboy

Forager
Jun 30, 2004
202
0
39
Erm... it's variable
Thats slightly concerning.....

Keeping a low profile does work well...although i occassionally get stopped by police for "looking suspicious" or something along those lines.... :roll:
Serves me right for living in the city really......luckily never had a knife/axe on me when they stopped me.... :shock:
 

Richie

Forager
Feb 3, 2004
109
0
North Wales
Bushmaster said:
Hi all, I have just been reading a copy of a tabloid newspaper who are setting up a campaign to try and get the laws governing the carrying of knives tightened.Making it illegal to carry a knife in a public place. :shock:
Now I always carry my folding lock knife and a fire steel everywhere I go (you never know) and a friend of mine always has his swiss army knife with him. Does anyone out there know if we will be breaking the law, as it is you must prove why you are carrying one.Do you think the statement " I am into bushcraft/survival techniques" will be acceptable?
Geoff
:cry:

If you pocket knife is a folder with no locking mechanism and the blade is under 3 inches you will be fine. Anything else you would have a reasonable excuse as to why you had it.

If you use common sense like Adi and others have said I think that you would be ok as long as whatever you are carrying is not a 'made' offensive weapon then you might be hard pushed to have an excuse for carrying it.

Richie
 

mal

Forager
Sep 20, 2004
246
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57
Blackpool
As i understand the law you are not allowed to carry a lock knife at all only a folding knife if the blade is not over 3'' other knives you can get away with if you are on your way to work were you need a knife or carrying your fishing kit some thing like that. but the Medea will soon jump on the government band waggon to ban all knives because kids have got them so as soon as the government needs to look like they are doing something about crime they will make sure there are loads of reports of people getting stabbed ext so they will take away all the knives from the good people just like they did with guns so only criminals will have them so the same amount of stabbings shootings ext will continue just the same and get worse just like gun crime has but at least we will all feel better knowing the government cares :yikes:
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
59
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
mal said:
As i understand the law you are not allowed to carry a lock knife at all only a folding knife if the blade is not over 3''


Not true.

Look at the law forum on BritishBlades for probably the most in depth coverage of British Knife law anywhere on the internet.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39

But, in a simple manner...

You can carry a fixed blade or a folding lock knife (considered to be the same thing in British Law) of pretty much any size providing you have a reasonable reason for having it about your person. Claiming youy are a bushcrafter, while shopping in tesco's will get you locked up. If you are out in the woods, using your knife to make feather stick, it's unlikely you will get arrested and unlikely any charge would stick - the bushcraft reason would probably work. It's all about circumstance and reason. Just dont expect to "blag it". Cops are not daft, they will see through you in a second and you will get arrested for being a fool.

just to be pedantic, here's a summary of British Knife Law....

Bladed items etc:- section 139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place



(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove4 that he had good reason5 or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection

(4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

(c) as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable

(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both.



(7) In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

[Criminal Justice Act 1988, s 139 as amended by the Offensive Weapons Act 1996, s 3.]

1 Sections 139–142 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 which are printed here came into force on the 29 September 1988. For other provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, see in particular Part I: Magistrates’ Courts, Procedure,

2 Part XI contains ss 133–167.

3 For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife (Harris v DPP [1993] 1 All ER 562); followed in R v Deegan [1998] Crim LR 562,[1998] 2 Cr App Rep 121. The section applies to articles which have a blade or are sharply pointed, falling into the same broad category as a knife or sharply pointed instrument;

it does not apply to a screwdriver just because it has a blade (R v Davis [1998] Crim LR 564).

4 Once the prosecution has discharged the burden of proving the ingredients of the offence against s 139(1), the defendant is guilty unless he can discharge the burden imposed by s 139(4) of the Act; see Godwin v DPP (1993) 96 Cr App Rep 244.

5 The fact that a defendant has forgotten that he has with him an article to which s 139 applies does not constitute a defence of good reason within s 139(4)(DPP v Gregson (1992) 157 JP 201).

6 Interpretation of the ordinay everyday use of “for use at work” is not a matter of law but it is for the justices to decide for themselves what the phrase means in the context of the case.

Therefore possession of a bladed article by an unemployed mechanic to do some repairs on his car that was parked in the road could come within this defence, see R v Manning [1998] Crim LR 198, CA.

7 For procedure in respect of this offence which is triable either way, see the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980, ss 17A-21, in Part I: Magistrates’ Courts, Procedure, .

8–22681

139A Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises

(1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Any person who has an offensive weapon within the meaning of section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence. (3) It shall be defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article or weapon with him on the premises in question. (4) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (3) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had the article or weapon in question with him— (a) for use at work,

(b) for educational purposes,

(c) for religious reasons, or

(d) as part of any national costume.

(5) A person guilty of an offence—

(a) under subsection (1) above shall be liable1—

(i) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both;

(b) under subsection (2) above shall be liable—

(i) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years, or a fine, or both. (6) In this section and section 139B,“school premises” means land used for the purposes of a school excluding any land occupied solely as a dwelling by a person employed at the school; and “school” has the meaning given by section 4 of the Education Act 1996

 

Bushmaster

Forager
Oct 17, 2004
115
0
61
Scotland
:yikes: Gulp!! It reads like I'm in shtook then if I have my folding, lock knife on my belt during my everyday life. I think I will have to just carry my swiss army knife with me,a poor, but, clearly the only viable alternative.
Many thanks to all who answered my queery and especially to Martyn for a clear and complete answer. :You_Rock_
Kindest Regards
Geoff
 

tomtom

Full Member
Dec 9, 2003
4,283
5
38
Sunny South Devon
and for extra information.. i am informed that a leatherman is counted under the "lock knife" category (even though i recently saw an on duty police man with what i am quite certain is a black leatherman case on his belt) so they are out too!
 

tomtom

Full Member
Dec 9, 2003
4,283
5
38
Sunny South Devon
have a serious read of that Ask a Cop.. there is a lot of useful stuff there! and i find the bits which suggest that even if you are found with an "illegal" blade then if you are polite and are not doing anything stupid.. and it is not linked to the reason you are searched and there is no charge against you you may well be told to "take the blade home" and if it is confiscated then there is a fairly good chance it will be given back to you!

Disclaimer: i and im sure BCUK do not condone the carrying an illegal knife under any circumstance!:)
 

leon-1

Full Member
Quill said:
You guys have my deepest sympathy. I would be lost without my Leatherman.

Quill, I carry a leatherman wave with me almost every day and have been carrying something like it for at least 12 years. It has always been sat on my belt, in plain sight most of the time and I have only ever beenasked about my reasons for carrying it once. Said tool was still on my belt when I walked away five minutes later.

The current laws are more about common sense and justification, I am a test technician, I build and maintain test equipment in the opto-electronics industry. If I am not out practiceing bushcraft in my spare time I am working on computers as a fully qualified computer engineer, so the majority of what I do could well be a justification for me carrying a leatherman with me. :wave:
 

Andy

Native
Dec 31, 2003
1,867
11
38
sheffield
www.freewebs.com
tomtom said:
(even though i recently saw an on duty police man with what i am quite certain is a black leatherman case on his belt)
Police have a very good reason for needing the leatherman though don't they. Whilst oon St Johns duty people carried leathermans and used them. They can be a vital bit of kit.
 

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