The banning of knives!!

[tomtom]

is "i am taking it to show a friend who is also a law abiding.. sensible knife collector a "reasonable reason?"" for the tesco and many other scinarios of that nature?

 

[Bushmaster]

Ok I posed the origonal thread but I'm going off it here slightly. Do we all shop at Tesco's 'cos it sounds like it to me.lol
): ): ): :rolmao: :rolmao:
Geoff

 

[Martyn]

is "i am taking it to show a friend who is also a law abiding.. sensible knife collector a "reasonable reason?"" for the tesco and many other scinarios of that nature?

Whether your friend is law abiding or not is irrelevant. Transporting it directly to and from a location is reasonable (you might have to prove it in court), carrying it in Tesco's or round town is not reasonable (unless your friend lives in Tesco's).

It sounds like a BS excuse (it is one really isn't it?) and likely to be viewed as such by a police officer.

see above...

So, be sure your "reasonable reason" is indeed a reasonable reason, and not some half baked excuse that you think lamely gets you round the law - it wont!

 

[Martyn]

personally i think a knife is an essential tool and not a weapon

as long as i continue to treat it like a tool and respect it as such i need have no fear that carrying a knife will be a crime

i dont need a lock knife to go to tescos

i dont need a bowie to go to the bank

and i NEVER carry a knife for self defence

if i am asked to justify the knife in my pocket or on my belt i can do so

sadly in todays society it means looking into what the law says on these matters

but the law is there to protect me as well so i guess i can tolerate having to take my lock knife out my pocket and swap it for a slipjoint for a day in the town

Tant

Well said. :biggthump

 

[Andy]

Do we all shop at Tesco's 'cos it sounds like it to me.lol
Geoff

yes, tesco value range is what I live on at uni (loaf of bread 19p baked beans 11p)

I don't really see the point in going through all this lock knife buisness when it's been coverd in huge depth over on britishblades.

 

[Adi007]

I don't really see the point in going through all this lock knife buisness when it's been coverd in huge depth over on britishblades.

I agree ... The bottom line is that with regards to bushcraft, if you are carrying a knife while doing "bushcrafty things" you *should* be OK as you have a valid reason for carrying knives. However, the best excuse in the world ain't gonna help you if you make an idiot of yourself and come to the attention of the law.

Bottom line, use common sense and discretion and be comfortable with what you do. Info you pick up off a forum is unlikely to be of much use to you when you are faced with having to explain yourself - you either have a valid reason that's accepted or not, or you don't have a valid reason. This stuff is serious business and you can get in serious deep trouble quickly and saying "someone told me so and so on the internet" ain't gonna be much help to you.

Also (pre-empting future questions/comments), if you don't like the law of proposed changes, get in touch with your MP or ministers involved. That's how politics works. Using a forum to spread the word is great but remember that a forum can't change the law!

On a lighter note - the continued reference to supermarkets here is interesting though because I've never seen anyone stopped and searched in a supermarket ... ):

 

[Andy]

The continued reference to supermarkets here is interesting though because I've never seen anyone stopped and searched in a supermarket ... ):

It's much easier to hunt animals that you defrosted the day before.

 

[Tantalus]

lol adi , sorry for mentioning tescos, it was just an everyday example that i thought people would relate to :sad6:

you are probably more likely to be searched while going to a football match, while out late night drinking, or any of a hundred other situations

Tant

 

[Adi007]

No worries ... just htink it says somehting about us (not sure what) that we think of a public place we think of supermarkets! ):

 

[shinobi]

personaly i couldn't care about this campaign. by the sounds of it their trying to raise paper sales/ put a bit of pressure on a political group. end of the day i don't think it will make any difference.

We have more to worry about from some of the media groups then we do from politicians. Once a newspaper finds out that there is a groundswell in favour of a certain article that they have published, then they will adopt that for a campaigning issue and get even more vehement about it and turn it into a witchhunt until they force politicians arms up begind their back and make them commit to their "cause".
Before you know it, we'll have to spread butter with our fingers because they've banned all metal cutlery :shock:

It may sound funny, but the reality is that this is the way things get banned.
It's happened before. Anyone remember those nasty "Ninja Death stars"? Well, those are a valuable historic weapon from the martial art that I practice. Now, I'm not allowed to train with them as well as several other weapons all because of some media circus campaigning against "Teen-age mutant ninja turtles".

The best way to prevent this from happening to bushcraft tools, is for a valid sensible viewpoint (preferably from a professional user of such tools) to be made to the media, politicians and the public, so that our defense is well established before such an issue comes to the fore. Someone like Ray Mears springs to mind. He's passionate about his bushcraft and he's involved with the scouting organisation already and maybe most importantly, He's well known to the public and the media.

Sorry for rambling on, but I don't want to see such a thing happen to something I hold dear.

Cheers,

Martin

 

[Danzo]

There's a useful article on this, entitled 'UK Knife Law' in the BCUK Articles section. Written by somebody or other........



Danzo

 

[Stew]

I don't really see the point in going through all this lock knife buisness when it's been coverd in huge depth over on britishblades.

You're working on the assumption that people are members there as well as here. They may wish to discuss it further and feel happier doing it here.
:?:

 

[jonglow]

i think its funny how they want to ban knives because of stabbings when most stabbings involve screwdrivers and needles or broken bottles which by the way is how current body armour is tested not with knives

 

[Kath]

I think it's important to remember that your car is considered a public place, so storing knives etc in your vehicle is not a legal option either, unless you're travelling from a place where you were using them. And even then you can expect to get a hard time!

I was taken to hospital after the accident in my Landy on the way back from the Wilderness Gathering. I begged the Ambulance man to let me take my bag with me, forgetting that this would mean I would be taking knives etc into a public place when I got to the hospital. Bad mistake! The casualty staff informed the police who came to question me about it... :roll: :?:

But that wasn't the end of it. The Landy containing all the rest of my kit was then impounded as evidence, so then I had to explain why I had the rest of my stuff, billhooks, axes, etc. The police even came to my house to question me about it! :yikes:

(And it's not just knives - a lot of bushcraft stuff isn't easy to explain away either. How would you explain a tinder pouch full of birch shavings, cattail fluff and clematis bark to a policeman who's never even heard of Ray Mears! :roll: :shock: :?

So beware - you never know when you might suddenly be expected to explain yourself. And believe me when I say that 'Bushcraft' isn't the perfect excuse that everyone seems to think it is...

 

[Danzo]

I think that Kath makes an excellent point. Everyone should remember that the legal defences to any charge under the relevent laws are exactly that: defences to be raised in court. An understanding police officer may let you go with all your kit. Another officer may choose to arrest and charge you. And confiscate your kit. If the CPS then decide to proceed you will go to court and only at THAT point will your defence of lawful activity and good reason be considered by the magistrates, or judge and jury. By this stage, depending on the enthusiasm of your local cub reporter you could well have made it into the pages of your local rag:

KNIFE FREAK ARRESTED WITH ARMOURY IN LANDROVER! WITCHCRAFT CONNECTION SUSPECTED!!!

:shock:

As the Editor would no doubt say when you complained:

You said 'Bush'? Sorry, it sounded like 'Witch'

:roll:

Be careful out there.......



Danzo

 

[Kath]

KNIFE FREAK ARRESTED WITH ARMOURY IN LANDROVER! WITCHCRAFT CONNECTION SUSPECTED!!!

:shock:

As the Editor would no doubt say when you complained:

You said 'Bush'? Sorry, it sounded like 'Witch'

:roll:

:rolmao: ): :rolmao:

 

[Shing]

I find it funny that the police seems to have all this time and resources to investigate law abiding people who have a perfectly legal minority interests that appears to contravene a daft law, made by defensive and gullible politicians egged on by an ignorant and baying media hoodwinking the majority of the public. Surely those scarce police resources would be better used enforcing laws that does protect the public like catching burglars, wife beaters, drunken drivers and drug dealers, criminals who actually make other people’s lives miserable rather than people who like to have a knife in their pocket and doesn’t affect anyone else. Maybe when judges look at the intention of parliament when interpreting a law, they should consider it was passed because the Government wanted to get the media of their backs rather than protecting the public. It goes to show that more laws especially if they are daft ones just wastes everyone’s time and actually detracts from the protection of the public.

 

[BIG-TARGET]

I find it funny that the police seems to have all this time and resources to investigate law abiding people who have a perfectly legal minority interests that appears to contravene a daft law, made by defensive and gullible politicians egged on by an ignorant and baying media hoodwinking the majority of the public. Surely those scarce police resources would be better used enforcing laws that does protect the public like catching burglars, wife beaters, drunken drivers and drug dealers, criminals who actually make other people’s lives miserable rather than people who like to have a knife in their pocket and doesn’t affect anyone else. Maybe when judges look at the intention of parliament when interpreting a law, they should consider it was passed because the Government wanted to get the media of their backs rather than protecting the public. It goes to show that more laws especially if they are daft ones just wastes everyone’s time and actually detracts from the protection of the public.

That is the one real of law enforcement, they have(at leats in NJ) are becoming "revenue enhancement officer" who will literally invent and excuse to give you a $50 ticket/fine for ANY REASON!!!!

And they make sure the fine is low enough, so that you would rather pay the fine than fight it. And even if you fight it, the local judge(who is nothing but a political hack) will find you guilty anyway. triple your fine, plus court costs(the judges cut).

so you are :smashfrea either way!!!! :aargh4:

 

[Tantalus]

gotta agree with ya shing

the old phrase " i saw it in the newspaper so it must be true" comes to mind here

the police just do their jobs to the best of their ability, and their jobs are guided by the politicians

the politicians on the other hand seem to be so out of touch with the country that a quick scan of the daily papers sets their agenda for the day

somebody needs to tell politicians that the popular press does not necessarily reflect public opinion

Tant

 

[Andy]

You're working on the assumption that people are members there as well as here. They may wish to discuss it further and feel happier doing it here.
:?:

I feel that it's wasting time for people to have to explain it again. If your not discussing knives in bushcraft sense then it's in the wrong section. People like Ross, Danzo and other put a lot of effort into explaining things over there. We should make full use of that effort