I disagree somewhat with the notion that you can't pick your survival knife. True, no one PLANS on getting into a life or death situation. But, anytime you are willingly and knowingly putting yourself at some risk, (say for instance, that you are going to Canada and be flown into a lake deep in the interior of the north woods for some fly fishing), Then I think you would be foolish to not consider the possibility, however remote, that everything could go wrong. Then a prudent person would choose which of his knives to take, which compass, etc. Generally, whenever a person gets lost in the woods; stranded in the desert, or whatever, they have played some major role in getting themselves into that situation. But, usually went into it without thinking about possibilities and with poor planning.
Survival v Bushcraft?
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I too struggled with this question if only for a minute. I would not be going somewhere just to survive. I would be going into the wilderness to do things. Generally when I do that I take the knife which affords me the most options. So its my Allen Blade Bushie.
I know that I could put a combat bowie to similar use, but it would be less effective or a little awkward. I recently saw Rambo pt 1 again on late night tv. I was surprised how much my knowledge and skills had moved on since the mid 80's. A lot of which is down to RM & you guys.
ATB
G
I know that I could put a combat bowie to similar use, but it would be less effective or a little awkward. I recently saw Rambo pt 1 again on late night tv. I was surprised how much my knowledge and skills had moved on since the mid 80's. A lot of which is down to RM & you guys.
ATB
G
I understand the realities of this question but the reason for posting was to appreciate the differences bewteen what people think of as a bushcraft style blade and a survival style blade as the tool of choice in this predicament.
Thanks for your response so far
Well in that predicament I would want my Gransfor SFA any day of the week. But if its just a knife then I would probably go for my bushy knife because I know I can do all the chores with it that I would need to survive!
Strangely worded question really
A bushie
Because that's what I'd have with me, if I did have a knife.
Small one, mind you maybe I should call mine 'neckers' for most of you
By choice I reckon I'd still take the bushie. Might aim for a full tang one....maybe
just in case.
Here, just had a thought, is the WM1 a bushie or a 'survival' knife ? It's totally un rambo'd.
What about the Laplander ?
cheers,
Toddy
A bushie
Because that's what I'd have with me, if I did have a knife.
Small one, mind you
maybe I should call mine 'neckers' for most of you By choice I reckon I'd still take the bushie. Might aim for a full tang one....maybe
just in case.Here, just had a thought, is the WM1 a bushie or a 'survival' knife ?
It's totally un rambo'd.What about the Laplander ?
cheers,
Toddy
Strangely worded question really
Thats my fault for my poor grammar - What I was trying to say was what blade(tool) would you rather have with you if you ended up in a survival situation?
The question stems from the huge popularity of "bushcraft" style blades (including me as the owner of a Ben Orford Woodlander) set against the "survival" style knives (those specifically designed to deal with such an event - F1 etc) and the differences in their design and usage in such a situation.
The poll has , so far, indicated that a lot of people would take a "bushcraft" blade into the situation, excepting that this is not a scientific test on the data
Whilst a "bushcraft" blade can clearly be a "survival" tool; does it work as well the other way round?
ATB
Strangely worded question really
Here, just had a thought, is the WM1 a bushie or a 'survival' knife ?
What about the Laplander ?
cheers,
Toddy
Exactly!!
What is a bushcraft knife? And for that matter what is a survival knife?
For me they are both the same! I teach survival and practice bushcraft and I use the same knives for both!
I think it's the perception that the 'survival' knife is the Ramboesque (spelling, sorry, not sure of that one ) 'thing' that would tackle the Klingons.........except that the hollow handle full of must have, sure to be useful, don't leave home without, gadgets, would snap off
When in fact a real survival knife is just a damned good useable tool.
I suspect that what I consider a suitable tool for a Scottish situation might be awfully different from that BOD or Stuart might use in a jungle though
Northern Europe ? Bushie or one of the traditional Scandinavian set ups.....have to admit though, a wee axe is the bees knees sometimes.
cheers,
Toddy
When in fact a real survival knife is just a damned good useable tool.
I suspect that what I consider a suitable tool for a Scottish situation might be awfully different from that BOD or Stuart might use in a jungle though
Northern Europe ? Bushie or one of the traditional Scandinavian set ups.....have to admit though, a wee axe is the bees knees sometimes.
cheers,
Toddy
I think it's the perception that the 'survival' knife is the Ramboesque (spelling, sorry, not sure of that one ) 'thing' that would tackle the Klingons.........except that the hollow handle full of must have, sure to be useful, don't leave home without, gadgets, would snap off
cheers,
Toddy
Couldn't agree more - although those Klingons do require special attention
At the end of the day, a knife is a knife, regardless of it's marketing ploy, be it a SAK, Woodlore, Bernie etc etc
It's what you have on you when you need it the most.
It's what you have on you when you need it the most.
I think a bushcraft blade is easier to define or characterise than a survival blade, if such a thing exists.
I can carry out food prep with my Mora Clipper much better than my Spyderco Military, that's due to the blade shape and handle offset, giving more knuckle clearance.
If pressed, I would characterise a survival blade as one that is indestructable in normal use, whatever the task, preferably stainless, or a stainless tool steel, such as ATS 34, although that will make it harder to resharpen. Weight is another thing...... I used to have an MOD survival knife, wish I hadn't sold it, it was a good length/weight for use in chopping and splitting wood, about 1/4 inch thick blade.
Bushcraft is a choice.. Survival is a necessity.
My bold italics in the quote.... and read down before deciding..
In a 'survival' situation, and I will lay out the Military aircrew/pilot ejected over northern europe in winter as my case provenance... You might need to create shelter, make fire (chop wood for fire), and possibly clear a space for a rescue helicopter to land. That is why the MOD survival knife is basically a short, heavy chopper, although mine was shaving sharp !
If we are talking about UK limited survival, then the priorities shift to location (letting people know where you're at, and for how long), and alerting someone in an emergency (does anyone carry flares, or a mirror?) You could make a signal fire (do you have reliable firemaking kit/skills?)
Personally, if in a 'survival' situation, I wouldn't start to worry, until my trousers fell down, off my hips..... And even then, I'd probably give it another couple of weeks (I could do with losing a bit).
I think it's the perception that the 'survival' knife is the Ramboesque (spelling, sorry, not sure of that one ) 'thing' that would tackle the Klingons.........except that the hollow handle full of must have, sure to be useful, don't leave home without, gadgets, would snap off
When in fact a real survival knife is just a damned good useable tool.
I suspect that what I consider a suitable tool for a Scottish situation might be awfully different from that BOD or Stuart might use in a jungle though
Northern Europe ? Bushie or one of the traditional Scandinavian set ups.....have to admit though, a wee axe is the bees knees sometimes.
cheers,
Toddy
I think the key to survival would probably be NOT to take on a klingon with anything less than a photon torpedo fired from orbit..... and even that might be risky....
A knife is not a knife. While any knife is better than nothing in a survival situation, there are knives better suited for certain conditions than others. As far as I read it, the question was a hypothetical, asking which one you would rather have with you-obviously, you will not have that choice in reality, but that does not make the question meaningless.
Any knife is a compromise between abilities. I know many people who call themselves bushcrafters will not use anything other than a four inch scandi, but that does not mean that it is the best knife for every situation.
The bushcraft blade (something like a 4” scandi grind blade/Mora), leans much more in design toward giving the user control and precision. The compromise it makes is that it gives up power. These characteristics make it a great knife for spoon carving, but far from the best option for a survival situation.
In a survival situation you priorities should be shelter and fire (especially in Northern Europe). Can you make a shelter with a 4’ blade?-Sure, if you had enough time and energy. With enough time you can make a log cabin with it, but it doesn’t mean that that would be my tool of choice for the job. Can you split logs for fire with it?-Sure, you can make wedges, and use all sorts of other tricks, if you had the time and energy. The reality however is that with a proper knife, i.e. a big knife you can do all those things much, much faster, and save a lot of energy. At the end of the day, that is what matters in a survival situation.
Of course, a knife that excels at shelter building/chopping, and splitting of wood, would sacrifice control and precision, and as such would not be as good for spoon carving. In a survival situation, carving is the last thing you should be doing.
If I had a choice, I would rather have a RTAK II, or at least a RAT 7 with me if I found myself in such a situation. Think of it this way: you are dropped into an area without any tools. On the ground you find a knife. Which knife would you rather find there-a Mora or a RTAK II?
By the way, because I’m sure someone will bring up the F1, the F1 is used by the air force as a survival knife because pilots have size limitations to the blades, i.e something you can carry on your body while in a plane seat. It is the same reason why US pilot survival knives are relatively small. The other branches of the armed forces use larger blades.
Any knife is a compromise between abilities. I know many people who call themselves bushcrafters will not use anything other than a four inch scandi, but that does not mean that it is the best knife for every situation.
The bushcraft blade (something like a 4” scandi grind blade/Mora), leans much more in design toward giving the user control and precision. The compromise it makes is that it gives up power. These characteristics make it a great knife for spoon carving, but far from the best option for a survival situation.
In a survival situation you priorities should be shelter and fire (especially in Northern Europe). Can you make a shelter with a 4’ blade?-Sure, if you had enough time and energy. With enough time you can make a log cabin with it, but it doesn’t mean that that would be my tool of choice for the job. Can you split logs for fire with it?-Sure, you can make wedges, and use all sorts of other tricks, if you had the time and energy. The reality however is that with a proper knife, i.e. a big knife you can do all those things much, much faster, and save a lot of energy. At the end of the day, that is what matters in a survival situation.
Of course, a knife that excels at shelter building/chopping, and splitting of wood, would sacrifice control and precision, and as such would not be as good for spoon carving. In a survival situation, carving is the last thing you should be doing.
If I had a choice, I would rather have a RTAK II, or at least a RAT 7 with me if I found myself in such a situation. Think of it this way: you are dropped into an area without any tools. On the ground you find a knife. Which knife would you rather find there-a Mora or a RTAK II?
By the way, because I’m sure someone will bring up the F1, the F1 is used by the air force as a survival knife because pilots have size limitations to the blades, i.e something you can carry on your body while in a plane seat. It is the same reason why US pilot survival knives are relatively small. The other branches of the armed forces use larger blades.
I guess here in the states, things are a bit different. Survival would likely include an unintentional stay in the woods, from, say, a day hike gone bad. I carry a Victorinox 'Farmer' SAK. It's not the world's greatest knife, but it includes a saw, awl, and screwdriver for help in splitting. It - and my usual EDC pocket knife, ranging from a Spyderco Native to a Buck 110, would suffice for many chores.
Now, if I am intentionally heading to the boonies, then I need a proper bushcraft knife. I would choose one of too many choices I have, including Buck 192 Vanguards and a mix of Bark River knives, to name a few. I would also carry a folding saw or belt-mounted hatchet, as the intent would be to make trail shelters, etc.
So - unintentional arrival in 'bushcraft' situation demands a minimalist tool, while knowingly situating myself in that situation gives reason to carry 'more'.
Sadly, here in the states - while I can still do so legally - either possible survival or dedicated bushcraft situations will also dictate that at least a pocketable firearm be part of the 'kit'. The two-legged predators are still the most dangerous beasties in the boonies.
Stainz
Now, if I am intentionally heading to the boonies, then I need a proper bushcraft knife. I would choose one of too many choices I have, including Buck 192 Vanguards and a mix of Bark River knives, to name a few. I would also carry a folding saw or belt-mounted hatchet, as the intent would be to make trail shelters, etc.
So - unintentional arrival in 'bushcraft' situation demands a minimalist tool, while knowingly situating myself in that situation gives reason to carry 'more'.
Sadly, here in the states - while I can still do so legally - either possible survival or dedicated bushcraft situations will also dictate that at least a pocketable firearm be part of the 'kit'. The two-legged predators are still the most dangerous beasties in the boonies.
Stainz
I find that many folks who carry bush craft knives know how to use them, while those who ONLY carry a large Rambo type knife only has fantasies of using it. With the exception of tribes people already living in the bush.
If a person carries a bush craft knife and a larger knife, they are likely using the larger knife instead of an ax.
Beware of the guy who only has one gun, because he knows how to use it; be afraid of the guy who just carries one large knife that looks like it was bought at the store yesterday.
If a person carries a bush craft knife and a larger knife, they are likely using the larger knife instead of an ax.
Beware of the guy who only has one gun, because he knows how to use it; be afraid of the guy who just carries one large knife that looks like it was bought at the store yesterday.
Are you going to carry a "bushcraft" knife when you're out and about, and also carry a "survival" knife, just in case?
I'm thinking not. The only reason I can see to carry a "survival" knife -- by which I mean a knife that is made well nigh indestructible, but is less than ideal for many tasks as a result -- would be in a situation where I would normally have no need of a knife, but was at risk of finding myself stuck in the woods. Such as, for example, flying a bush plane between Moosonee and Peawanuck.
When I'm not actually flying a bush plane between Moosonee and Peawanuck (which happens to be all the time), I'd pick a knife suited to whatever I was doing.
I'm thinking not. The only reason I can see to carry a "survival" knife -- by which I mean a knife that is made well nigh indestructible, but is less than ideal for many tasks as a result -- would be in a situation where I would normally have no need of a knife, but was at risk of finding myself stuck in the woods. Such as, for example, flying a bush plane between Moosonee and Peawanuck.
When I'm not actually flying a bush plane between Moosonee and Peawanuck (which happens to be all the time), I'd pick a knife suited to whatever I was doing.
forestwalker
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Yea, and a carving knife, a spoon, knife, a small "karvsnittskniv", a chopper for the spuce brances, a butchering knife or two for game, a SAK for the nifty tools, a multitool for the other set of nifty tools... Pity I have no space in my pack for anything else (except for my collection of axes, of course).
If I was flying a bush plane I'd have something like the LK35, with a saw (full size buck for preference), a full size axe, a blanket, a wool sweater, a rain poncho, a cookpot, a combo rifle/shotgun (ideally 6.5 mm/12 gauge), the first aid kit from heck, one or even two mora knives, a fishing rod (etc) and the usual possibles pouch contents (fire-lighting, cordage, sharpener, repair, etc). Something like Mors survival scarf might be handy as well. With that kit I could spent a month or two in realtivre comfort, assuming I'm sensibly dressed and mostly unhurt in the first place (duh), waiting for the SPOT-people got get around to finding me.
Ramboesque "will survive being immersed in burning thermite for 30 minutes, close tactical nuclear weapon detonations, and 15 minutes in boiling Aqua Regia, for novelty purposes only, not intended for cutting or use in the outdoors" knives would not be on the list.
Mwan think it is same thing. if w hae une knife grande then w can do all things. with a small knife w will struggle to builld shelters.
I think many people on this thread are just avoiding the question. The issue is what knife you would rather have in a survival situation, and not, how likely do you think it is that you will be in a survival situation. An answer along the lines of "I will never be in a situation where I would need a survival knife, so I only have a bushcraft knife with me", is not a response to "what knife would you rather have in a survival situation". Similarly, an answer such as "I only need a bushcraft knife because I always have an axe with me" does not answer the question.
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