Superstiton and Trees
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I heard a story by a professional story teller about the 'Barren holly' some years ago and how it is believed to be very unlucky to cut down a solitary holly bush. It was a while ago and I can't remember all the details but apparently not good for your luck. 
A fantastic pocket book and only 4" x 5" (once you've got to the point of being able to id your trees of course) is
A Tree in your Pocket by Jacqueline Memory Paterson.
Its a great campfire read and covers all of our more common trees and their uses, legends, customs, healing and magic.
In edit: Listenclear beat me to it!!
A Tree in your Pocket by Jacqueline Memory Paterson.
Its a great campfire read and covers all of our more common trees and their uses, legends, customs, healing and magic.
In edit: Listenclear beat me to it!!
Glennie kindred also does some good books on tree lore.Well,its more tree ogham actually.
Regarding solitary trees,it is thought that solitary trees(especially hawthorn)are where the fairies live.Very bad practise to them down.
Regarding solitary trees,it is thought that solitary trees(especially hawthorn)are where the fairies live.Very bad practise to them down.
Out of curiosity, do you have a source for that? Most tellings I've read and heard consider it to be an arrow or spear of Mistletoe, .............
Nonetheless I would be interested in hearing a different take if there's one that cites Rowan as the one that killed Baldr
Pete
No idea where I heard it, it's been around forever.
Just that the Rowan was truly innocent and could not be magicked into any spell, like the one that protected Baldur. So Loki, knowing every spell must have a way to end it, a get out clause if you will, cut the arrow from it, and gave it to the blind brother, since Baldur was so loved that no other would try to wound him. The blind brother fired true though and the Rowan killed Baldur and didn't just wound him.
Wonder if Wayland might know where this one comes from ?
Mistletoe wasn't even mentioned in this tale
Misteltoe is a fertility herb, a magical blessing for health and fecundity. Kissing under it was supposed to bring good luck and healthy offspring. It's been seen as a remedy for poisoning since before the Greeks came to empire.......how could it poison Baldur ? cheers,
Toddy
No idea where I heard it, it's been around forever.
Just that the Rowan was truly innocent and could not be magicked into any spell, like the one that protected Baldur. So Loki, knowing every spell must have a way to end it, a get out clause if you will, cut the arrow from it, and gave it to the blind brother, since Baldur was so loved that no other would try to wound him. The blind brother fired true though and the Rowan killed Baldur and didn't just wound him.
Wonder if Wayland might know where this one comes from ?
Mistletoe wasn't even mentioned in this tale
cheers,
Toddy
A wonderful version
It wasn't that Mistletoe poisoned Baldr, but rather that as all other things had sworn not to harm him, he was effectively invulnerable, and any other wood would have simply bounced off; Mistletoe had not taken the oath not to harm Baldr, and so the arrow killed him, as any arrow would an ordinary man. I've since actually heard another reason for the mistletoe not swearing the oath; that Frigg didn't think it posed a threat. One of the things I love about these stories is how set in stone they are not
Pete
Wikipedia quotes your version though.
The reason that Loki couldn't fire the arrow himself was that Rowan does not thrive in the presence of evil, and it wouldn't fire true for him.
Oh well.....here's hoping Wayland knows more
cheers,
M
The reason that Loki couldn't fire the arrow himself was that Rowan does not thrive in the presence of evil, and it wouldn't fire true for him.
Oh well.....here's hoping Wayland knows more
cheers,
M
Many superstitions have a root in common sense. One old Scottish one is that you invite death and famine if you bring fruit blossom into the house ( take note all you elderflower cordial makers). The root of this is pretty simple, it you cut boughs with blossom, then they wont provide fruit, that blossom is wasted.
It's like putting shoes on a table, bad luck, but when you think it's also unhygenic. The Jewish faith takes this further with the "unclean" foods. It's basically an early attempt at food hygene in an environment where food spoiled quickly.
On the holly front as a forester it was called the "first tree of the woods", a relativly slow growing pioneer species, unlike birch, which although also a pioneer is quick to establish.
I had an old forester friend who told a bunch of cutters to fell a large holly that was in the way of a proposed forest road, ( they'd felled around it). He tried to ask, then force them to cut it, but they wouldn't. Eventually in an annoyed state he said he'd do it - to their horror. Now he was an experienced cutter himself, and set about it with a chainsaw. He followed good practice, but as it came down, it swung and twirled, then bounced... landing right on top of his car, totalling it.
As others have said rowan also has many stories to it, here's a tree that gives colour and food in bleak grey months, and as such was encouraged to grow at the door as protection against evil. As an aside east coasters wouldn't plant it there, as planting it was also considered bad luck.
TTFN
Goatboy.
It's like putting shoes on a table, bad luck, but when you think it's also unhygenic. The Jewish faith takes this further with the "unclean" foods. It's basically an early attempt at food hygene in an environment where food spoiled quickly.
On the holly front as a forester it was called the "first tree of the woods", a relativly slow growing pioneer species, unlike birch, which although also a pioneer is quick to establish.
I had an old forester friend who told a bunch of cutters to fell a large holly that was in the way of a proposed forest road, ( they'd felled around it). He tried to ask, then force them to cut it, but they wouldn't. Eventually in an annoyed state he said he'd do it - to their horror. Now he was an experienced cutter himself, and set about it with a chainsaw. He followed good practice, but as it came down, it swung and twirled, then bounced... landing right on top of his car, totalling it.
As others have said rowan also has many stories to it, here's a tree that gives colour and food in bleak grey months, and as such was encouraged to grow at the door as protection against evil. As an aside east coasters wouldn't plant it there, as planting it was also considered bad luck.
TTFN
Goatboy.
Wikipedia quotes your version though.
The reason that Loki couldn't fire the arrow himself was that Rowan does not thrive in the presence of evil, and it wouldn't fire true for him.
Oh well.....here's hoping Wayland knows more
cheers,
M
Sorry if I sound like I'm being pernickety, as an Odinist of sorts (I don't usually use the term Odinism, people tend to jump to thinking they know what i'm talking about
) my curiosity was genuine and I'm always open to hearing alternative versions; when dealing with stories that were, for who knows how long, passed on through speech and song rather than hard and fast copies, it's refreshing to hear the various tellings Pete
Sorry if I sound like I'm being pernickety, as an Odinist of sorts (I don't usually use the term Odinism, people tend to jump to thinking they know what i'm talking about
Pete
No offence in the least, and I hope none given if the tales are of some real significance to you.
Actually, in the tales I know of Loki is just unlucky, he's a kind of chip on his shoulder type who keeps trying to get the best of others but the results are rarely what he intends.
He only wanted to wound Baldur so he wasn't so beautiful, and using the blind brother meant no one would think to punish him for hitting his brother.
I haven't heard these stories in years. My Grandfather could silence all his grandchildren by just saying, "A long time ago, when the world was young...... "
His tales were of Scotland though, it's roots and it's people. I don't even remember if he told this story or not.cheers,
M
I think the Kissing under the mistletoe comes from the fact that here is a plant with no obvious roots that gives forth a fruit in the dark dank time of the year. So it is good for fruitfulness.
On the symbolic front, when I worked for Buccleuch Estates at Drumlanrig, there was a Yew in the grounds that had a rowan growing from a split in its trunk. I remember being blown away at the symbolism of it - the tree of death giving forth a tree of hope, life and protection.
GB
No offence in the least, and I hope none given if the tales are of some real significance to you.
Actually, in the tales I know of Loki is just unlucky, he's a kind of chip on his shoulder type who keeps trying to get the best of others but the results are rarely what he intends.
He only wanted to wound Baldur so he wasn't so beautiful, and using the blind brother meant no one would think to punish him for hitting his brother.
I haven't heard these stories in years. My Grandfather could silence all his grandchildren by just saying, "A long time ago, when the world was young...... "
cheers,
M
No offence taken at all, certainly no cause for any in anything you've said
I've always considered Loki a more malicious figure, tricking Hodr into thinking that he was honouring Baldr by joining with the other gods (who were launching a variety of missiles at him to flaunt his invulnerability, essentially). Particularly out of a religious context, though, I can understand a less malicious interpretation. I honestly think that one of the best modern versions of this is the song "Brother's Bane" by Tyr:
Well worth a listen
Speech and song are definitely, IMO, the best way for stories to be shared; my brother in law is the best spinner of yarns I've ever known, and my mother telling me stories was what got me interested in the norse lore in the first place
Goatboy - that does sound absolutely wonderful
Good interpretation of the mistletoe too!Pete
If Wayland organises another meet up at Murton Park, try to come down
Sitting in that longhouse, around a fire with no modern noises or lights, in like minded company, listening to stories from out of the past was pretty special
atb,
M
Sitting in that longhouse, around a fire with no modern noises or lights, in like minded company, listening to stories from out of the past was pretty special
atb,
M
No offence taken at all, certainly no cause for any in anything you've said
I've always considered Loki a more malicious figure, tricking Hodr into thinking that he was honouring Baldr by joining with the other gods (who were launching a variety of missiles at him to flaunt his invulnerability, essentially). Particularly out of a religious context, though, I can understand a less malicious interpretation. I honestly think that one of the best modern versions of this is the song "Brother's Bane" by Tyr:
Well worth a listen
Speech and song are definitely, IMO, the best way for stories to be shared; my brother in law is the best spinner of yarns I've ever known, and my mother telling me stories was what got me interested in the norse lore in the first place
Goatboy - that does sound absolutely wonderful
Pete
Hi Pete,
Cheers mate, Though an ISTP and a pagan, with a little bit of being an Aquarius I can make sense of it in my head. I'm a spiritual being who loves logic. I believe our beliefs have a root in common sense. Most supperstitions have a root in logic... walking under a ladder is a stupid thing to do, an umbrella up inside means that the roof isn't doing it's job. These beliefs have a root in good and bad things we do. Breakng mirrors bringing bad luck came from the fact that they were VERY expensive things, a lot of polishing or some silver were involved. So make them bad luck to break and then folk wont do it. The Christian church knew this and made many things law. The reason Catholic priests cant marry is that the church didn't want to loose wealth through divorce laws such as they were, the banning of contraception was due to their want to outbreed the non catholics.
Might be an idea if we can get folk to send in superstitions and see if we can work out there roots???
TTFN
GB.
Toddy - that sounds like it would be amazing
Goatboy - Quite right, of course, that many superstitions do have a sensible root. Not all, but that's the nature of humanity, really; common sense isn't as common as you might think I'd say you may be walking on rather thin ice with the religious stuff, but I think that if outrightly religious bits such as those mentioned were excluded (probably would be anyway since it's not superstition ), that could make an interesting thread
Pete
Goatboy - Quite right, of course, that many superstitions do have a sensible root. Not all, but that's the nature of humanity, really; common sense isn't as common as you might think
I'd say you may be walking on rather thin ice with the religious stuff, but I think that if outrightly religious bits such as those mentioned were excluded (probably would be anyway since it's not superstition ), that could make an interesting thread Pete
Toddy - that sounds like it would be amazing
Goatboy - Quite right, of course, that many superstitions do have a sensible root. Not all, but that's the nature of humanity, really; common sense isn't as common as you might think
Pete
Pete, I m a creature of logic, though I have a strong spiritual side.
I would just like to know what folk believe, and to see the roots if they are available.
Most folk can't pair off beleif and logic but in my head they work. would love to know what folk believe.
GB
