So.. what happened...

[Woody girl]

No, DVD.

Like all these new Star Wars shows, I would buy them if on DVD, but now I need to find someone with Disney +...

And my social circle is still using tapes.

I still play proper vinyl records on a Danset record player. And i still play tapes when i cant get vinyl. But then I'm a luddite, as much as possible and dam proud of it. I'm sure that's why "bushcraft" in its widest sense appeals to me.

 

[FerlasDave]

I still play proper vinyl records on a Danset record player. And i still play tapes when i cant get vinyl. But then I'm a luddite, as much as possible and dam proud of it. I'm sure that's why "bushcraft" in its widest sense appeals to me.

Nothing wrong with Vinyl, sometimes the old ways are the best!

 

[Chris]

Just in case anyone wants to feel particularly ancient, as of next year there will be adults alive who were born after the iPhone was launched.

Thank you for attending my TED Talk, I will not be taking questions. *whistles innocently*

 

[TeeDee]

I think It all went sideways after we got rid of that bushcraft God that could boil water in a leather boot......

A. Leather. Boot. !!

 

[FerlasDave]

I think It all went sideways after we got rid of that bushcraft God that could boil water in a leather boot......

A. Leather. Boot. !!

He must have had hot feet!

 

[HillBill]

He must have had hot feet!

Always preferable to cold feet!

 

[Limaed]

Joined about 20 years ago, helped me get through an Afghan and couple of Falklands tours. I still have a look most days and contribute when I can. We need more posts about canvas Crusader rucksacks!

 

[HillBill]

Aye, very different.
Lots of people moved on to Facebook and instagram. This has affected many other forums on other subjects too.
No major personalities on TV has meant fewer are being inspired.
When the forum started many were in our 20s or 30s, now in our late 40s or 50s and it is noticeable that there are not that many people in their 20s or 30s joining. Same at the Moot. Not many new faces, not many young faces.

Fair point mate. I was 29 when i joined... 45 now. So much has changed in my own life... i was young fit and healthy back then... now im middle aged... fitish, but have a few health issues that do restrict my ability to do what i used to used to do so freely. Life sucks sometimes... But we all make our own choices... if we love something... we should all be finding ways to keep on doing it. I'm guilty of letting life take over, i'm guilty of getting tired of the grind... i'm also guilty of not making time for myself... I reckon we all are... But i'm also gonna take credit, for getting to a point where i say to hell with that. Its time to spend time on what 'I' want to do. Been a long time since i did a solo overnighter... winter is my fave time to do it... the warmth and glow of a campfire.. a useful one too, none of this fire for fires sake during the warmer months.

Sometimes, its better to go basic, and the same applies on here. After reading all the replies... people getting tired of the same old convos.... this is why theres so few new members and engagement.. a question gets asked...'do a search' And an entire thread is dead... because people lose the desire to teach, to pass on knowledge, thus engagement goes out of the window. The like button is the worst thing that ever happened to online discussions.

 

[HillBill]

Same thing has effected all the forums I´m on, I started joyning forums around 2006. People get older, they got family life that take up time, move to facebook and other places. In short life happens.

Even facebook is dead on the subject. It was never a good format for some proper debate anyway. Too much abuse/insult, people feeling liek they cant be complete tits with immunity. Never left a good taste in my month. But yeah, life happens... if you dont choose to have a say in it.

 

[Tengu]

Hey, I was here before you were.

 

[HillBill]

The hard core and true enthusiasts are still here and still posting ... but perhaps not as often as they have said most of what they have to say

Hi John. Hope you're well mate. I get that, but there are many new ears willing to listen... you'd never see a village elder back in't day refuse to pass on knowledge to the young 'uns, because they'd already told their parents now would you?

 

[HillBill]

It’s true. Many of us have moved on. Theres only so many times you can discuss the same old thing, and the lack of anything good on the TV has seen new people introduced to the subject drop. The art of communication is also being lost. I’m sure old timers like me are also to blame to some extent. I come on here about once a month or so to see if there’s anything new or that will engage my interest, and there isn’t so I move on again without engaging at all. I remember the time when you’d leave the forum for a few hours, then come back and there’d be a page full of brand new threads. Nowadays there isn’t even that many replies in one thread. These things ebb and flow, and I’m sure those times will come around again. I’ll certainly make more of an effort in the future as I love this place. But although I’m now semi retired, I seem to have far less time than I used to. How’s that happen? I meant to come on here Sept 4 and post something to celebrate being in here 20 years. And I forgot until yesterday.

Hi JD... long time no speak. Hope you're well mate. I do understand where you're coming from, i'm guilty of it myself... And yeah, place was active as hell back in't day... And i wish it could be so again. There's certainly an ebb across the board... But will it flow... not without people making it so... and if everyone sits and waits for it to happen, it never will. Thats not how it got good to start with... it was through people discussing pretty much everying.. (politics and religon aside lol) that got it going. We didnt just talk bushcraft...there were threads about most things... its what made it a place for most people to be comfortable... now? not so much... the old guard are still here, but as said in the comments... people get bored of discussing the same subjects... so what interests you right now/recently? You still with the lovely mathematician? Been out snake hunting recently? Learnt anything new? Been bitten?

 

[Pattree]

Tapes? LUXURY.
We made do with a wind up 78rpm gramaphone!!!!

 

[HillBill]

This is a big part of it. Forums are old fashioned and all the other ones I'm on suffer the same. Although I'm not on Facebook etc what I can gather is people tend to just like to post their views and not discuss stuff as much.

Old fashioned maybe. But still the best imo. Far more of a community that other social media.

 

[HillBill]

I hear you. and it was the main reason why I stopped being in these forums a handful of years ago, be that this one or the US version. The Dutch, German and Swedish ones I left even before that.
I guess one can only show so many topics on fire, shelter or other skills, before becoming repetitive plus the main focus appeared and appears to be on gear and trinkets anyway.
I do not even mention the online drama.
So I guess moving on is the only option?

I was never really taken with BCUSA. And yeah, things did seem to become about the kit. All the gear and no idea. Drama is what drives conversations to some extent. There used to be many contentious threads, conspiracy stuff etc, i was guilty of being part of that, but damn, those convos could go on for weeks. Not everyone who is into bushcraft/survival are just guys who want to be at one with nature per se. Many do it as they believe they will need these skills one day. And its a good of a reason as any. Perhaps more so than one who just wants to chill in the woods... but over time, these folks met so much resistance... they left. Yet they were a core part of the forum once upon a time.

 

[HillBill]

I’m new here so I’m looking forward to your new ideas and revitalising posts.

Can't decide if there's a element of sarcasm in there... do we have an emoji for that? It appears not lol. Mate, if you knew me back in the day, you'd know what i was like... i was often in trouble, even had a couple of temporary bans... and this post has got people talking has it not?

 

[HillBill]

Things turn around over time; it may well gather pace again in the future, who knows. As long as Tony is happy with the level of discourse on here to keep it going, I am happy with a slower level of activity until it does.

It's true, we old-timers are reluctant to keep writing about how to use a bow drill, or the best plants for cordage, and the FB brigade that come on don't bother searching the forum for past discussions and want an immediate answer to their specific question - that can just be tiring TBH.

Also, every Tom, Dick and Harry that has spent a couple of nights in the woods thinks themselves a 'backwoods' expert and drowns YouTube with their antics, so new starters don't think they need the more steady advice that comes from a forum like this.

When I go back to old threads it saddens me to see how many valuable participants have not been seen in the last few years. Unless it's outside the GDPR rules maybe Tony could do a mailing to encourage people back on?

Will it get going again without engagement from current posters? Are we waiting for something to make it happen? If so... in your opinion mate... what will that be?

I do agree about people being 'experts' after a night or two in the woods. The world is full of that these days, it's laughable. I can't even watch any youtube bushcraft these days. The only one i revisit is called the A to Z of bushcraft.. very old, was about back when i joined the forum but one i still find enjoyable.

 

[HillBill]

" Also, every Tom, Dick and Harry that has spent a couple of nights in the woods thinks themselves a 'backwoods' expert and drowns YouTube with their antics,"

I like the ones that " Stealth camp " on Motorway Roundabouts......

Yeah, i've seen a couple of those... *** lol... I mean fair dooz, but still a bit silly.

 

[HillBill]

I can offer the perspective of someone (relatively) young who joined in the last few years, if it helps. I also worked as a Community Manager as my full time job for a very, very big forum over 10 years ago and have some observations based on that.

Firstly, as people have mentioned, forums as a medium for discussion are not the cool thing anymore. TikTok, Reddit, Instagram, YouTube Shorts and other short form, instant gratification media are. Longer form conversations are dying and attention spans are reducing. People like visuals and things they can mindlessly watch without having to think too hard. The forum I worked on went from one of the biggest in the world with millions of daily users in 2005-2010, to now being shut down as of 2020. They moved to Reddit.

The next thing I am saying as my observation as someone relatively new here who joined in my early 30s, and I present it as helpful feedback and not to start an argument or debate on the points contained as I know these views are contentious.

When reading this next bit I urge you to think back to your 20s and 30s and the circumstances we found ourselves in with regards to work, financial resource and time available and try to empathise rather than criticise or go defensive. I also urge you to acknowledge the challenges a lot of young people face today with regards especially to financial stability and home ownership.

What got us in to bushcraft? I’d bet for a lot of people we loved seeing Ray or someone go out and light a fire with a flint and steel, make a camp in the woods, chop firewood with an axe and make frames and traps and things with his knife. That’s what is appealing to us when we’re young and being introduced to the subject. I’d wager 0.001% of people get into bushcraft because they are interested in the ecology of a piece of fallen wood on the floor. The reality is, the more detailed parts of bushcraft and understanding of nature comes later, as a long term result of our initial interest of just wanting to go and sit with a fire in the woods.

My observation and recent experience here is where this becomes problematic. I arrived all keen and interested, I was even looking specifically for a forum because I love this medium and detest social media. Here is a summary of my observations:

“I want to go out to my local woods to learn how to start a fire”
- No, you can’t do that as it’s illegal and you need permission and fires are bad anyway unless you do them a very specific way.

“I want to go out and set up a shelter and try to spend the night in the woods”
- No you can’t do that, it’s trespass and it’s against the forum rules to talk about it.

“I want to go and try to carve some wood in the local woods”
- No you can’t do that, because the wood is important to the insect ecosystem and you’re trespassing and it’s theft and criminal damage.

“OK but I am in my 20s or 30s so how can you feasibly expect me to enjoy bushcraft if I don’t go to the woods?”
- Well you should just buy your own woodland, even though you likely can’t even afford a house! Or ask permission (which will be refused) or wait until you’re in your 50s or 60s and you have saved enough money! None of the fun bushcraft until then I’m afraid, keen young person, you must simply use public footpaths and look at leaves without touching anything.

There are a lot of people here with a wealth of knowledge, and are very generous in sharing that. I also found the same at the BushMoot and everyone was lovely. However the Moot attitudes did seem somewhat different to those found on the forum - far more people willing to be reasonable and empathetic when it comes to how most people might be able to access woodland. I suppose that’s because it’s not against the rules to talk in more honest, realistic terms at the Moot. I do understand Tony’s dilemma there though, when it comes to having what is said here recorded for all to see.

Some of this may be down to the nature of written discussions from behind our keyboards, without hearing tone or seeing faces and body language.

Just an observation anyway, and as I said no offence intended to anyone and people here are generally nice people. Perhaps it’s just important to look at it from the context of people coming into this fresh, like we once all did.

Hi Chris. Thanks for your in depth and considered response. Have no fear mate, i dont do defensive, nor take perceived criticism personally (though i don't see any anyway)

Yes, for a lot of folk, the likes or Ray and Bear on tv sparked that interest. Of that i have no doubt, and know it to be true. It was part of why i joined the forum (and several others), but wasnt the reason my interest lay in the subject. I was in the cadets from the age of 13, where i learned a lot of the basic skills... my parents kicked me out when i was 16... i was a difficult child i expect (recently diagnosed with ADHD) and had to fend for myself while homeless for quite a while, so my real interest stemmed from there.

I note your points as to the responses folk get regarding legality etc... it wasn't like that before. Over time, the forum changed where it went from people giving advice regarding to the question, to people question the ethics and legality of said question. Which put people off. Gone were the days of like mined folk, and along came the days of armchair experts. And here we are today. A forum of people putting people off going out and doing it, rather that one of people advising the best way to on how to go and enjoy it.

The do gooders and self righteous took over... the killjoys and the self important. Thats why i stopped posting... thats was never my style. Leave no trace, vanished without a trace...

 

[HillBill]

I've done my best to reply to page 1. I'll reply to the rest tomorrow guys... time for bed. Night all. Much love.