Ship wreck scavenge

[falling rain]

So what do people reckon about the folks scvenging for goods off the beach down in Devon? Is it fair game or human behaviour at it's worst? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6287047.stm
Apparently it's legal as long as any scavengers fill in a form to declare what they have taken and the rightful owners can recover it from the scvengers if they choose to, or they can write it off if it's to much trouble. Also theres apparently much worse damage being done by people strewing unwanted packaging and goods etc around the beach.
Personally I can't make up my mind if it's fair game or a bit lower than a snakes belly. Part of me says it's still taking something that dosn't rightfully belong to you, and part of me says oh well the companies can afford a few losses....even BMW motorbikes. One comment on the link above blames the shipping companies for not taking enough care of their goods and another blames the sailors........... Both unfair in my opinion. The ship was caught in a serious storm and no one can prevent that happening no matter how much care is taken. Nature is far to strong and will do as she pleases.
So what do others think? I'm about 60 - 40 against the pillaging. I'm not usually in-decisive but can't make up my mind 100% either way on this one.
Oh.................. and that was one seriously loaded ship
An interesting comment by Dan UK on the link. Will all the scavengers go back and help out with the cleaning up after they've taken their fill..........not convinced somehow

 

[bloodline]

I will make up my mind if a new motor bike gets washed up near me

 

[Aliwren]

I didnt really have a view when I heard it was bikes, cars and industrial equipment etc. However my mind was made up when I saw some people being interviewed on tv last night whilst rummaging through a container which was clearly someones worldy personal possesions that had been loaded up for emigration/immigration which were being strewn across the beach - their quote was "why not everyone else is?" very distasteful imo

 

[falling rain]

I didnt really have a view when I heard it was bikes cars and industrial equipment etc however my mind was made up when I saw some people being interviewed on telly last night whilst rummaging through a container which was clearly someones worldy personal possesions that had been loaded up for emigration/immigration which were being strewn across the beach - their quote was "why not everyone else is?" very distasteful imo

I didn't see the news as I've been working all night, but I agree with you on that one. Someones personal property is a different kettle of fish to a few bags of dog food or a barrel of sherry. There's a new article on the BBC website this morning here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6289371.stm condemning people's greed and the fact they are just strewing un-wanted goods around all over the beach, lighting fires and generally making a bit of a party out of it. I'm fairly sure as I mentioned before those people won't be volunteering to help with the big clean up.........unless there's any chance of bagging more loot that is.
The mess they are making is very disrespectful to our countryside/beach/nature........but I wouldn't imagine they're worried about that too much.
It's not so much the taking the stuff,.......... but it's the free for all, and sod the mess I'm going to make, as long as I get some freebies attitude that's quite depressing.

 

[scanker]

Against for me. I sort of agree that the shipping company should have taken better care, but the damage being done by the "salvagers" outweighs that part of my opinion. Someone on the radio yesterday said that they could see someone's wedding photos among all the worldly possessions strewn along the beach for all to see/take/burn.

 

[falling rain]

I don't see how the shipping company COULD have taken more care. A storm is a storm no one can stop them happening and as long as the ship had an up to date, valid, safety to go to sea permit and wasn't overloaded there's not really much more the shipping company can do I wouldn't have thought.

 

[leon-b]

I think the road is being closed off now and it has become an offence to take any more
leon

 

[Dougster]

I remember a story of a retired pirate further down the coast who used to walk his horse with a lantern tied to the tail to encourage the sailors onto the cliffs.

Whilst this is much less obnoxious, rummaging through someones posessions for a freebie is sickening, and easily discernable from retail containers.

I'm not sure, if I was there and a BMW bike was sitting on the beach.... Let him who is without sin - not that I'm that way inclined but you get the drift.

 

[WhichDoctor]

As for a lot of the stuff it wont be of any use to the company, it mite still be good enough to use but couldn't be soled. The kegs of wine and bottles of brandy however, im shore they would still be salable so that's just stealing. But the personal possessions, well.... there's not a lot you can say about that .

 

[kram245]

From what i saw on Tv, the debris area is fairly localised, dont see why the shiping company could'nt employ a gang of private security guards. My first thought was fair play to them, as a local walked off the beech with a pair of trainers washed ashore. Later reports, started hearing lots of different accents from all over the UK, people that would be the last to volunteer to help with a beach cleanup. When it gets down to rummaging through peoples personal belongings, thats pretty low.

 

[BorderReiver]

Theft,pure and simple.

None of these people have any intention of giving up what they've stolen.

There is not a lot of difference here from the looting that goes on after riots.

 

[leon-1]

Right folks, a lot of the people that are out there are normal people just like you and I, a lot of people down here also know the law about things like this (it's almost in our blood, if it had been Cornwall it would've been).

Effectively what arrives on shore could be classed as Jetsam, once recovered it is then salvage, there is nothing illegal about it as long as the correct paperwork is filled in. It is then down to the owners to recover thier goods, which means that they would have to pay salvage.

For the people objecting about the personal belongings (A Crate going to South Africa) think of it along these lines. The crate was already broken open, the weather down here can change and those seas do not take prisoners, the crockery and paintings will have been smashed to bits by the time the owners actually got around to recovering thier goods (for those of you who don't know, the persons that own that crate will probably of found out a week after the ship ran aground and they would not know if thier kit had gone into the sea).

Despite your obvious mistrust of peoples intentions, if they abide by the law and fill in the forms the owners of that crate have now got a chance of recovering thier belongings, something that they wouldn't of had if it had been down to the sea.

The other thing to think of is that pretty much all of that stuff will have been insured and for once the bankers will have to pay up.

Whether you condone it or condemn it, I want you to have a good think on this, deep, deep down can you say that if you had the option of doing the same would you turn it down and make nothing from it or would you be out there with evryone else?

 

[dommyracer]

 

[bent-stick]

Theft,pure and simple.

None of these people have any intention of giving up what they've stolen.

There is not a lot of difference here from the looting that goes on after riots.

Not quite - there are specific laws that allow for salvage.

As I understand them: As long as the receiver of wrecks is informed you can take what you want and legally no one can stop you. The receiver may then require you to give up the goods in return for compensation. Dunno what the time limits are though.

I can't see the receiver being able to keep up with the all the forms and whether chasing it down the goods and disposing of them would repay the effort. wouldn't mind betting that they will going after the people who don't do the paperwork. If they can find them.

IANAL and this information is worth exactly what you paid for it....

I'd look at it as a testament to human nature that we haven't seen violence break out over the high value stuff. From the news coverage it all seems good natured and everyone seems to be helping each other out.

 

[bloodline]

I wonder if the shipping companies would bother to clear up if this was a remote part of the world too far for the media to bother with. I think if they could they would write it all off and leave it where it is oil slicks included and sod the locals and the enviroment.

 

[Ben_Hillwalker]

If the collectors honestly and completely fill in the forms with the intention of handing the stuff back if requested then fair enough.

If the collectors don't fill in the forms (or fill them in with false information) but had some clearly demonstrable need for the stuff then okay I might look the other way.

But an awful lot of them seem to be making off with stuff that they just took shine to. Tacky faux-traditional wooden barrels are hardly an essential for life.

Also, if 80% of your worldly goods got trashed in the smash-up wouldn't you be all the more keen to get the remaining 20% back? So how would you then feel if you saw on the news that your remaining intact possessions were being stashed in the back of someone's van? Not good I would think, and an insurance cheque (which will be be about 12 months down the line) is cold comfort.

 

[pibbleb]

I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I can certainly understand why people are doing it!

I think we have to remember for some of these coastal, and once remote, communities it is kind of part of their heritage. That doesn't make it right particularly if they aren't being respectful of peoples personal possessions.

However, the law if really clear on this and as long as the correct paperwork is completed it's legal, despite much of these laws coming straight out of the 17th and 18th century, I think!.

I'd like to think I wouldn't do it, but who am I kidding!

I do wonder whether the cost of paying salvage on the items will outway the net gain from an insurance payout!

My understanding is that a private security company was going to be closing off the beach today, but again I wonder how legal that is if it's public land

 

[Wayne]

The beach combing may not be the most attractive reflection of our society but I would have a rummage if the kit was being washed up on my local beach.

How many threads on here have there been about recycling kit?

Most of the stock from those containers are now destined for landfill. I wander past skips all the time and have a peer in to see if there is anything useful.

 

[gregorach]

I wander past skips all the time and have a peer in to see if there is anything useful.

Indeed - and I believe that is stealing, technically.

 

[BorderReiver]

Right folks, a lot of the people that are out there are normal people just like you and I, a lot of people down here also know the law about things like this (it's almost in our blood, if it had been Cornwall it would've been).

Effectively what arrives on shore could be classed as Jetsam, once recovered it is then salvage, there is nothing illegal about it as long as the correct paperwork is filled in. It is then down to the owners to recover thier goods, which means that they would have to pay salvage.

For the people objecting about the personal belongings (A Crate going to South Africa) think of it along these lines. The crate was already broken open, the weather down here can change and those seas do not take prisoners, the crockery and paintings will have been smashed to bits by the time the owners actually got around to recovering thier goods (for those of you who don't know, the persons that own that crate will probably of found out a week after the ship ran aground and they would not know if thier kit had gone into the sea).

Despite your obvious mistrust of peoples intentions, if they abide by the law and fill in the forms the owners of that crate have now got a chance of recovering thier belongings, something that they wouldn't of had if it had been down to the sea.

The other thing to think of is that pretty much all of that stuff will have been insured and for once the bankers will have to pay up.

Whether you condone it or condemn it, I want you to have a good think on this, deep, deep down can you say that if you had the option of doing the same would you turn it down and make nothing from it or would you be out there with evryone else?

Theft : to intentionally permanently deprive someone of their property.

According to news sources,smiling people were carrying off loot whilst talking about evilbay.

Let's face it,if even ONE of those taking the "salvage" was intending to return it to the owner,that would be a real surprise.

If the thieves had left the containers alone to be retrieved by the heavy lifting gear,much more could have saved.

The insurance payout costs you and me;higher premiums;less profit for the insurance companies which are more likely than not owned by someone on BCUK's pension fund.

I don't condone theft and no, I would not have joined in.