Sheath or Sheaf?

[Goatboy]

I chose sheath... but in the back of my mind there is something familiar about sheaf... not sure why.

I'm sure that I've read of a small curved reaping/harvesting knife being referred to as a sheaf knife as it was indeed used to cut sheaves/stalks.
Maybe one of our learned archaeology folks can put us right.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Toddy]

Yes, I know those two as well.

As a child learning to speak I had problems with two sets of words. Soldier and shoulder, and sheath and sheaf. Granny called the old Japanese knife (slim, flat, slightly curved blade, one of the Uncles probably brought it back from the war) used in the garden a sheaf knife, but my Dad used a sheath knife when working on the boat.

M

 

[dewi]

As a child learning to speak I had problems with two sets of words. Soldier and shoulder

Exactly the same... and I mean exactly

I still have problems with pronunciation... I know what I want to say, but I can not say the word innovative. I have many other words I struggle with, and occasionally I still struggle with soldier and shoulder.

As a child, the worst word for me was vinegar. I couldn't say it without stuttering around the n.

So shealth or sheaf.... maybe it depends on your speech impediment

Thinking back though, I think it was on the farms as a youngster that the word sheaf was used. If I remember the context, I'll post it up.

 

[David LaFerney]

Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas...

If you don't speak like this then you probably talk in some kind of mongrelized pidgin - right? That was proper English speech until it got all hacked up wasn't it? Language changes.

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” Socrates should have also mentioned that they use poor grammar and diction.

Personally I find different dialects and vernaculars quite interesting - including ones that use a lot of colorful slang. Especially ones that use a lot of colorful slang. BTW - I often have to do a bit of research (Googling is research isn't it?) to understand what is being talked about on here.

 

[dewi]

Hwæt. We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas...

If you don't speak like this then you probably talk in some kind of mongrelized pidgin - right? That was proper English speech until it got all hacked up wasn't it? Language changes.

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” Socrates should have also mentioned that they use poor grammar and diction.

Depends when you regard English as English.... were we English when the Romans arrived? Were we English when Henry the eighth sat on the throne? Were we English when we embraced our first Parliament?

As a southern American, you know it's the cavaliers that contributed to your southern twang and language traits? So are you American, or a cavalier goddammit?

 

[David LaFerney]

"you know it's the cavaliers that contributed to your southern twang and language traits?"

I did not know that. Royalists from the English civil war? How did that happen?

 

[dewi]

Cavaliers running about the place apparently...

http://drawlitup.weebly.com/origins.html

 

[John Fenna]

I enjoy regional dialects and accents - English would be boring without them - but an accent is not, in essence, a written thing.
For example take Flemish: Flemish is a strongly identifiable language used in parts of Belgium and at the time I lived in Belgium there were lots of noisy demonstrations and the odd bomb or two all in favour of having Flemish have its rightful official prominence in the parts it was the first language - the slogan was "In Flanders - Flemish".
Then some bright spark up and pointed out that Flemish is a sub- set language of Dutch and there is not "official" written version of Flemish and insisted that the slogan should be "In Flanders - Dutch!"
All a bit like having Lallans and Doric accepted as "official" languages in which you can fill out your Tax Return, Driving License etc as Welsh is....
You can call a knife holder a "Sheaf" if you want ... people will know what you mean (well - if they come from the Sarf Eeese they will) but write it as "Sheaf" not "Sheath" and you is just wrong bro!
Or (as the sainted Toddy does) use the "vernacular" words/spellings to make a point/emphasize your pride in your "regionality".
The Welsh seem to have reversed this and co-opt English words and miss spell them and call it "Welsh"
Clwb Bowlio - Bowls Club
Clwb Rugbi - Rugby Club
and too many more!
The Welsh had a thriving language then let it down by introducing bad English into it - dammit they even take the universally recognized Greek "Taxi" (Hackney Carriage) and spell it "Tacsi".... the French tried to ban the introduction of Anglicisms such as "Le Weekend" - but failed... to the detriment of their language IMHO...
All language is mutable - otherwise it would not be live - but some things are wrong!

 

[Toddy]

I think my halo's slipping

Honestly, I think these islands would lose so much if we lost our assorted speech patterns
Seriously, I do. Words are not just the present, but the past, and the future. They are how we communicate most clearly (and confusingly ) how we share knowledge and interact socially. We can read in their words the voices of the past, and we leave ours for the future too.

I am actually very quietly spoken, but I have two very different leids. At home and all around me here is polite Scots. Not Glaswegian, or Clackmannanshire, or Fife, or Edinburgh or Aberdonian, or even Kintyre or the Borders, just the older Lanarkshire Scots. Graham S, one of the other Mods, sounds like my sons on the phone, but he is from Lanark.
Colin, another Mod, posted a poem about the Puddock not so long ago, and I could hear my Grandpa's voice as he told me it all those years ago. The words just roll with meaning and create an almost tangible picture of the scene with the toad and the heron, The memory of the quiet chuffed look on my Grandpa's face, with mischief twinkling in his blue eyes keekin' oot from below his bunnet, when I quoted bits of it to my Granny
Granny didn't know whether to praise me for my memory or to flyte at me for not speaking "English"….thing was though she flyted at me in Scots Instead she suggested that surely there was another bit of poetry that would be better suited for the bairn, so he started, "Twa wee speugs sat on a barra'. Wan wis a speug, the ither a sparra"….. nearly seventy years they were married, and he still joshed

That's the crux of the matter. If your words are clear enough to give more than just a 'Janet and John' image, then you're doing things correctly. Bare bones of the building blocks are the written word; but the way they are presented furnishes the house and puts the kettle on in the kitchen too

Keep your accents, and your words, and use them often

M

 

[Harvestman]

Clwb Rugbi - Rugby Club

I hate to do this to you John, but... wait, that's not true, I'm doing this gleefully , but anyway...

I'm afraid you are not quite correct here. The Welsh for rugby club is "Y clwb rygbi"

What you wrote would be a Rigby club, which is something else entirely, though exactly what I'm not sure.

 

[John Fenna]

I hate to do this to you John, but... wait, that's not true, I'm doing this gleefully , but anyway...

I'm afraid you are not quite correct here. The Welsh for rugby club is "Y clwb rygbi"

What you wrote would be a Rigby club, which is something else entirely, though exactly what I'm not sure.

Not spelt like that on our stadium.... though it would be the "correct" Welsh mis-spelling of the word...

 

[Macaroon]

I think my halo's slipping

Honestly, I think these islands would lose so much if we lost our assorted speech patterns
Seriously, I do. Words are not just the present, but the past, and the future. They are how we communicate most clearly (and confusingly ) how we share knowledge and interact socially. We can read in their words the voices of the past, and we leave ours for the future too.

I am actually very quietly spoken, but I have two very different leids. At home and all around me here is polite Scots. Not Glaswegian, or Clackmannanshire, or Fife, or Edinburgh or Aberdonian, or even Kintyre or the Borders, just the older Lanarkshire Scots. Graham S, one of the other Mods, sounds like my sons on the phone, but he is from Lanark.
Colin, another Mod, posted a poem about the Puddock not so long ago, and I could hear my Grandpa's voice as he told me it all those years ago. The words just roll with meaning and create an almost tangible picture of the scene with the toad and the heron, The memory of the quiet chuffed look on my Grandpa's face, with mischief twinkling in his blue eyes keekin' oot from below his bunnet, when I quoted bits of it to my Granny
Granny didn't know whether to praise me for my memory or to flyte at me for not speaking "English"….thing was though she flyted at me in Scots Instead she suggested that surely there was another bit of poetry that would be better suited for the bairn, so he started, "Twa wee speugs sat on a barra'. Wan wis a speug, the ither a sparra"….. nearly seventy years they were married, and he still joshed

That's the crux of the matter. If your words are clear enough to give more than just a 'Janet and John' image, then you're doing things correctly. Bare bones of the building blocks are the written word; but the way they are presented furnishes the house and puts the kettle on in the kitchen too

Keep your accents, and your words, and use them often

M

Excellent post, very well put and echo my feelings on the matter entirely

 

[Robbi]

Oh how I lament the loss of the letter " T " in everyday speech, even television presenters don't use it now !

 

[Herbalist1]

Sheaf knife is, of course, perfectly correct...but only if referring to the small curved knives that thrashers used to cut the bindings on sheaves of corn.
Now if the thrasher had a sheath for his sheaf knife, would that make it a sheath knife or a sheaf knife or both? I've just tried reading that last sentence aloud and I do find it a bit of a tongue twister!

 

[santaman2000]

..... Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

Same reason all pilots wear helmets; to be conscious to enjoy the flames.

 

[santaman2000]

Well if you 'axe' me the proper one is "sheath." However I usually just carry my knife in a scabbard and avoid the whole controversy.

 

[Mike313]

Apologies for the following deviation from the original question - just to say I, like the original poster, have an aversion to tautology (4am in the morning etc.). I just have to share the following which I saw a couple of months ago. "We are open 24/7, all day every day, including Saturday and Sunday".
BTW I agree with the Sheath-sayers.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Of course that could be worded in recognition of the challenges posed by their customer base. Read demographic.

"Open 24/7 Including Public Holidays" might solicit no more than surprise from Mr. Indignant of Tonbridge Wells. Whereas the same wording in the window of a Lower Deptford (Southeast London) Pound Shop is all but certain to require further explanation.

K

 

[David LaFerney]

... I saw a couple of months ago. "We are open 24/7, all day every day, including Saturday and Sunday"...

That is indeed repetitive and redundant.

 

[boatman]

Or is that going down the same line as Why do 24hr shops have locks on the doors? and Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

They never wore hard helmets Few pilots in any air force in WW2 wore helmets. Flying Helmet to keep head warm, to fix oxygen mask to and to hold headphones perhaps but not for protection. However, would it be unreasonable to try and keep alive until the target of a suicide mission is reached? I bet that modern suicide bombers look both ways when they cross the road.