Sheath or Sheaf?

[Tadpole]

I was delighted to see this thread still running. For me it is like watching the television programme " grumpy old men" for the first time and realising that I am not alone.

I refuse to believe that the babytalk which some of our yoof use is evolution. Anyone who was lucky to have an education is unlikely to take such a backward step. It may well be copied by people who are learning English. Imagine some of our football exports talking about
"oshpittle or should of"

We can enjoy our bursts of pedantry, but we must not allow it to stifle sharing of ideas and development of themes.Yet we may have a duty to our younger bushcrafters and visitors to the site to use the best English we can.

Just my 2p. Bah, humbug.
G

Unfortunately, the ‘Youth of today’ is ‘heartened’ by recent television programmes that claim education, of the type they were party to, is no better or worse than the education of the 1950s and 1960s. To this I say, balderdash!. When an English teacher, that is to say a ‘professional teacher of English’, claims, nay insists that the ‘h’ in ‘ouse ‘orse ‘onest was not pronounced, and spelled dreamed and kneeled I say they don’t train or educate the teachers as well as they did 20 years ago let alone 40 years ago. Moreover allowing kids to write in American, claiming that it does not matter, so long as they can be understood.
Yours faithfully,
Annoyed of Bristol

 

[Karl5]

Anyone who was lucky to have an education is unlikely to take such a backward step.

You're of course referring to educated pure English such as:
"English is the greatest language in the world. It's the creme de la creme of languages. It's a fait accompli. I don't want to go on ad nauseam, but anything you might ever want to say is best said in English."
"Rubbish! English is no longer the force majeure it once was. In fact, it's something of a fiasco. Per se, it simply hasn't developed ... our language is stuck in a cul-de-sac. If something doesn't happen tout de suite it'll be hors de combat!"

I'm too old to learn "the new english", and it definitely hurts my ears when I hear some of this "modern english" (whatever that is).

But in the end I guess we all have to bow for the inevitable. It's a natural development of the language taking place, and without it the english-speakers of the world would still speak like this (Luke 2:19):
"Forsoþe it is don, in þo da3is a maundement wente out fro cesar august, þat al þe world shulde ben discriued,"
Which in King James bible is written like this:
"And it came to passe in those dayes, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed."


Besides, even the Queen is starting to lose the touch, Link.

Being a grumpy old man myself, though, I still agree with you

/ Karl

 

[Burnt Ash]

Ah, the Authorised version of 1611. Now you're talking! I wonder how I ever did manage to absorb the King James bible and Shakespeare without the intervention of some twerp educationalist dumbing down the language for me.

We're fast slipping towards being a third world country because we don't really value education. Our glorious language -demonstrably the richest in the world- is debased because the slack-witted, the limp-wristed and the herring-gutted will persist in telling us that anything goes because it's 'evolution' and 'inevitable' and that it 'doesn't matter'. Here are some common errors that grate on me.

I would cheerfully strangle anyone who said 'hospickle' (for hospital) in my presence (there is probably a good case for exterminating their entire family and neighbourhood for several streets).
There seems to be a few on this forum who do not understand the difference between 'then' and 'than' (many Americans struggle with this one).
They are may be contracted to 'they're', but not to their or there. Similarly, you are may be contracted to you're, but not to your.

And the word is DEFINITELY, not definately, you ignorant people!

Burnt Ash

 

[crosslandkelly]

Gor blimey guvnor, threadromancy at It's best. You are defiantly not wrong.

 

[oldtimer]

They are two different words with different meanings and different spellings. A sheath is a container for a knife: a sheaf is a bundle of corn stalks.
It is a matter of consulting a dictionary, not a matter of opinion so a poll is pointless.

Correct spelling is good manners, especially to our many members for whom English is a second language. I find it embarrassing that most of them seem to have a stronger grasp of our language than many of us.

If you think I'm a pedant, look up "pedant" in a good dictionary.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Is it going to make a significant difference to the Maker who gets my commission for a green hard shell knife holder?

In case it does I've suitably edited my most recent thread title to ensure a more inclusive approach to engagement with the BCUK membership:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136958

K

 

[John Fenna]

Unless you want a green bunch of cereal stalks to wrap your knife in.....
Best just use the right name really

 

[robevs73]

Scabbard!!!!!!!!!!
I am an awkward git.

 

[Robson Valley]

Just takes some time to learn to translate when moving from one english speaking country to another.
Terminology has some regional popularity but a decent dictionary trumps all of that.
As the court of last resort (or so it seems these days), look it up = what is the correct word?
Also, I see what must be literal translations for posts here, turned from the contributor's first language. I'm OK with those.

 

[Klenchblaize]

One made from a green bunch of Ash stalks would be rather cool.

I can't help feeling the downside to this craving for grammatical correctness is that those members given of a less comprehensive education will refrain from contributing to the site for fear of incurring the displeasure of and ridicule by the BCUK elite as are to be found pedalling their intimidatory agenda in this thread.

 

[Toddy]

I just aim for clarity. I know my 'Scotticisms' are hard enough for some of you to understand; you don't need me muddling up the too, to, two, and the there, their, they're, too

The defiantly definiately one drives me nuts though….just enough off to make me have to read again.

M

 

[Harvestman]

On the teaching topic, I was present during the following conversation between a trainee English teacher, and my friend:

Teacher: "This sentence doesn't make sense. Can you look at it please?" (passes over piece of written work for her teacher training course)
Friend: "Ah, well, the trouble with your sentence is that it doesn't have a verb in it"
Teacher: "A verb? What's that? I don't think we do verbs on this course"

These days I find my typing has deteriorated hugely and I am always making mistakes, but two of my personal spoken bugbears are people saying 'pacific' for 'specific', and the odd reversal of using 'slither' for 'sliver', as in "I shaved off a fine slither of wood". I think people assume that sliver is a mispronunciation, and 'correct' it.

Oh yes...

...if the English language made sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.

 

[Toddy]

...if the English language made sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.

I'm keeping that one

M

 

[Goatboy]

One made from a green bunch of Ash stalks would be rather cool.

I can't help feeling the downside to this craving for grammatical correctness is that those members given of a less comprehensive education will refrain from contributing to the site for fear of incurring the displeasure of and ridicule by the BCUK elite as are to be found pedalling their intimidatory agenda in this thread.

I tend not to correct people, I make mistakes myself, especially with this blinking phone having a tendency to insert the wrong word when I don't watch it like a hawk. But I do feel that if folk are never corrected then they may never learn. Just have to find a way to do it that isn't humiliating. Personally I like it if people pick me up on my mistakes, and with some on my friends they do often and tease me mercilessly. But I'm fine with it. One friend had the habit of mistakenly saying pacific instead of specific; at which point all present would mime the front crawl. I do have a problem with text-speak though. It's a personal bugbear and I refuse to use it. I think it comes from the use of it starting to creep into professional letters and applications I received. Those that did generally didn't get much further with me.
Strangely I don't mind emoticons; I find that their use in folks threads helps take out any misconception that they are being serious or aggressive.
I have a fair few friends who are dyslexic and they get pretty annoyed at folk saying they are when they're not. Some who claim to be are just lazy or badly taught.
I do feel bad about making light of people in the past, one lad at work asked what a xylophone was and I flippantly replied that it was like a glockenspiel. Was a pretty mean thing to be do and I've tried to be more understanding since then.

Words and language can be fun though. Look how much traffic the word based games on here get, so I feel that a lot of people do enjoy language, and I get a real sense of joy reading a well written & thought out report or article on the boards. The thing is English is so precise, the correctly plucked word can convey screeds of information and evoke so much. Mainly because we've outlined so much of it from other languages. That combined with regional dialects and colloquialisms makes it so enjoyable. I love having a carry-on with Toddy in Scots, or a spraff in Doric with a fellow East coaster, but I also enjoy that I can lapse back into R P / Q E so that I can carry out my professional life. ( If I ever get one back.)
Sorry for wittering on, i just like language (and some may say the sound of my own voice it seems)

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Robson Valley]

I corrected people for more than 30 years of university level biology/dendrology course work.
Some faculty claimed that we should be correcting grammatical errors as well.
Well? Horse-puckey says I.
I'm retired. It would cost you an obscene amount of money to get me to correct anybody for anything these days.
Errors of fact are easily fixed. I am never insulted to have my knowledge brought up to date.

Harvestman: that one goes up on my wall.

 

[Harvestman]

I'm keeping that one

M

Harvestman: that one goes up on my wall.

It isn't original, and I forget where I heard it

 

[Laurentius]

knife or knoif? I'll get me coat .

 

[John Fenna]

Ah - I love the English language - the crazy mixed up agglomeration that it is - and like to see it used to its most beautiful effect.
Grammar nazi I am not (if the can split infinitives in Star Trek they can split them anywhere!) and I rely a lot on the good old Spellcheck ... one of the most used books in our house is the dictionary and I am getting my wife a new copy for Xmas as our old one is wearing out...
But - using the wrong word, (sliver/slither, sheath/sheaf, there/their/they're, straight/strait, whatever/whichever) needs (IMHO) correction ... you would look a bit weird asking to by some cloves in a clothing shop "'coz that is wear they sell "cloves" innit?"
I hope no one feels I am putting them down by offering to correct technical terminology in subjects of they have yet to grasp the jargon. The corrections are offered in the spirit of help rather that disapproval - after all if I were to be struggling with a new jargon in a new subject I would welcome help to elucidate rather than obfuscate the subject.
English can be a tricky subject for natives as well as non natives ... never mind the Scots!

 

[Harvestman]

I'm reminded of a former Geordie student of mine who stood up to give a presentation and began with:

"Now, please listen carefully, because English is not my first language"

 

[dewi]

I chose sheath... but in the back of my mind there is something familiar about sheaf... not sure why.