I once snook onto a forum for Roma out of interest. Most of them were contientious, some requesting advice on tax forms. Someone came on and said gypsies had left a ton of rubbish on their field and many insisted these were not real Roma, and personally cared about the environment. The thread that got most anger was when a woman said that "no wonder my boys have to go out grafting [stealing]" Lots of replies of "its people like you who make us all look bad!" and "go away tinker, your not a Roma!"
Romany gypsies
- Thread starter bilko
- Start date
Certainly to look at, Duncan Williamson and his family of Scottish 'tinkers' bear no resemblance to the Roma of Central Europe that I see day to day, however there are references to the 'Rowmais' people in Scotland in the late fifteenth century, so it wouldn't be a long shot to think that he had some Roma ancestry.
Sadly nothing new there...
In Scotland "An Act passed in 1579 refers to the gypsies as 'the idle peopil calling themselves Egyptians'. This Act included the requirement that any person found to be a gypsy was to be nailed to a tree by the ears, and thereafter to have the said ears cut off."
"In 1603, the Privy Council ordered the entire race of gypsies to leave Scotland by a certain date, never to return on pain of death."
Personally I am sick of folks making excuses for the majority of these people,they turn where ever they go into absolute tips,pay no bloody tax,road tax you name it tax and still expect and they get the same damn services we all get that WE pay for.Rant over!
The book contains line drawings and descriptions of the various shelters that they would construct, large or small depending o the length of stay, and lots of information on the tools and equipment they'd use.
By far the most important bit of gear (he explains) was the 'snottum', which looked a little like a shepherds crook, but made from Iron,
"home made from iron, it was used to hold kettles and pots over the fire, for cooking or boiling tea; and it was used to used to bore holes in the ground for the tent sticks. It was also a deadly weapon, kept by the door of the tent at night time."
When they moved camp each would carry his share of five foot hazel sticks which would form the walls of the 'bow tent' the snottum was used to hammer deep holes into the ground to support the hazel sticks and then a 'riggin stick' pre bored with holes for the hazel would form the spine of the roof.
By far the most important bit of gear (he explains) was the 'snottum', which looked a little like a shepherds crook, but made from Iron,
"home made from iron, it was used to hold kettles and pots over the fire, for cooking or boiling tea; and it was used to used to bore holes in the ground for the tent sticks. It was also a deadly weapon, kept by the door of the tent at night time."
When they moved camp each would carry his share of five foot hazel sticks which would form the walls of the 'bow tent' the snottum was used to hammer deep holes into the ground to support the hazel sticks and then a 'riggin stick' pre bored with holes for the hazel would form the spine of the roof.
Sadly nothing new there...
In Scotland "An Act passed in 1579 refers to the gypsies as 'the idle peopil calling themselves Egyptians'. This Act included the requirement that any person found to be a gypsy was to be nailed to a tree by the ears, and thereafter to have the said ears cut off."
"In 1603, the Privy Council ordered the entire race of gypsies to leave Scotland by a certain date, never to return on pain of death."
There was a unfortunate individual hailing from Lanank named in local history as Lugless Wull
For majority of those south of the border...
Lugless Wull = William who has no ears
Poor chap
For majority of those south of the border...
Lugless Wull = William who has no ears
Poor chap
Thanks for that I forgot that most people would not have had a clue what the conection was .to the earlier post
Your very own Vardo...
"Have you always wanted to live in a traditional travelling vardo? Haven’t got a horse? Bit worried about getting mown down on the A303, perhaps? Want to cross continents in days not months? Then the Towavardo might be just what you are looking for."
From the Windy Smithy
Or, a converted horse carrier...
From 'The Hermitage' blog of Rima Staines.
"Have you always wanted to live in a traditional travelling vardo? Haven’t got a horse? Bit worried about getting mown down on the A303, perhaps? Want to cross continents in days not months? Then the Towavardo might be just what you are looking for."
From the Windy Smithy
Or, a converted horse carrier...
From 'The Hermitage' blog of Rima Staines.
Duncan was my uncle I have heard all the Storys from my mother of there happy way of life on the road in camps trailers and how wonderful this life is sitting at the camp fire telling storys drinking tea with a pan of ham frying and so much more .
Bit of a necro post......
But, my family are descendants from Romany Gypsies. My Granddads Dad fled the persecution of the Jews from Russia during the second world war with his family, and he met a travelling family of Romany gypsies, and settled down with one of their daughters, and had my granddad
When I think about the two sort of families I came from, and the type of lifestyle they lived, its not surprising I love Bushcraft. And probably why I used to love a good scrap when I was younger!
The Romany family my Grandad married into were very well known, and there is even an old book which I forget the name of which has my Great grandad and Grandad in it as a child.
But, my family are descendants from Romany Gypsies. My Granddads Dad fled the persecution of the Jews from Russia during the second world war with his family, and he met a travelling family of Romany gypsies, and settled down with one of their daughters, and had my granddad
When I think about the two sort of families I came from, and the type of lifestyle they lived, its not surprising I love Bushcraft. And probably why I used to love a good scrap when I was younger!
The Romany family my Grandad married into were very well known, and there is even an old book which I forget the name of which has my Great grandad and Grandad in it as a child.
Personally I am sick of folks making excuses for the majority of these people,they turn where ever they go into absolute tips,pay no bloody tax,road tax you name it tax and still expect and they get the same damn services we all get that WE pay for.Rant over!
I could level the same accusation against 80% of Blackpools residents..... None of them are Gypsies mate
They try and sell me lucky Heather, a sprig for about 5 quid.
Well if that's the sort of people that live in blackpool I for one shan't be coming there on holiday anymore.
I could level the same accusation against 80% of Blackpools residents..... None of them are Gypsies mate
Well if that's the sort of people that live in blackpool I for one shan't be coming there on holiday anymore.
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Bilko, I really don't think your interest in bushcraft is a result of a genetic link to parents who may or may not have been 'Romany' or other real itinerant travellers, with or without the affiliation to the Catholic Church or Rom religion.
We really are all descendants of the nomad and skills learned and shared are just that. Your genetic parents are the bows, and you are the arrows that they send forth.
I've been around gypsies most of my adult life. I now live between three large sites where Irish and 'other' English gypsies just don't intergrate. The English were indeed bullied off of their traditional site during the 1970's by a influx of Irish. I'm respectful to all travellers and find there's myth and bull in all camps, English especially. I've travelled, lived and worked with horses, from collecting scrap metal, to timber extraction. Travelled for years with my bowtop and several horses. Due to health reasons I no longer keep horses. I do however own a horsedrawn Ledge wagon that started life in 1916 as a potcart dray. In 1962 it was converted to a live-in Ledge wagon, which the original 'gypsy' wagon builders family would dearly like to buy back off of me.
I find there's much to be said about the wrongs of the 'traveling community' gypsies are usually chastised for dumping rubbish when we all know house dwellers and unscrupulous garden clearance guys are dumping by the truck load.
Regarding 'bushcraft skills' and the continuing practice of these skills amongst today's surviving Romany Gypsies. Unfortunately there is little call for such skills. The need to leave signs at road junctions and in hedgerows have gone with the arrival of mobile phones. Building shelters (benders) has been replaced with the tin trailer, foraging and huntings is usually a pastime or a serious investment in coursing dogs and air riffles. Some of them can show you how to start a walk away car fire 'not kidding'
The 'old trades' Tin smithing and peg making is largely kept alive for the tourists and for pin money. Gypsies shop at the same stores as the rest of us, probably more 'takeaways' than settled folk. Large supermarkets are reluctant to deliver groceries to legal sites, let alone camps at the side of the road. So the combustion engine is king. There's always someone on site who's not been drinking and is legal to drive at any time of day or night. To answers the OP question. Bushcraft skills are of no more importance to the travelling community, than they are to the settled community. The two lifestyles have merged and live similar lives.
We really are all descendants of the nomad and skills learned and shared are just that. Your genetic parents are the bows, and you are the arrows that they send forth.
I've been around gypsies most of my adult life. I now live between three large sites where Irish and 'other' English gypsies just don't intergrate. The English were indeed bullied off of their traditional site during the 1970's by a influx of Irish. I'm respectful to all travellers and find there's myth and bull in all camps, English especially. I've travelled, lived and worked with horses, from collecting scrap metal, to timber extraction. Travelled for years with my bowtop and several horses. Due to health reasons I no longer keep horses. I do however own a horsedrawn Ledge wagon that started life in 1916 as a potcart dray. In 1962 it was converted to a live-in Ledge wagon, which the original 'gypsy' wagon builders family would dearly like to buy back off of me.
I find there's much to be said about the wrongs of the 'traveling community' gypsies are usually chastised for dumping rubbish when we all know house dwellers and unscrupulous garden clearance guys are dumping by the truck load.
Regarding 'bushcraft skills' and the continuing practice of these skills amongst today's surviving Romany Gypsies. Unfortunately there is little call for such skills. The need to leave signs at road junctions and in hedgerows have gone with the arrival of mobile phones. Building shelters (benders) has been replaced with the tin trailer, foraging and huntings is usually a pastime or a serious investment in coursing dogs and air riffles. Some of them can show you how to start a walk away car fire 'not kidding'
The 'old trades' Tin smithing and peg making is largely kept alive for the tourists and for pin money. Gypsies shop at the same stores as the rest of us, probably more 'takeaways' than settled folk. Large supermarkets are reluctant to deliver groceries to legal sites, let alone camps at the side of the road. So the combustion engine is king. There's always someone on site who's not been drinking and is legal to drive at any time of day or night. To answers the OP question. Bushcraft skills are of no more importance to the travelling community, than they are to the settled community. The two lifestyles have merged and live similar lives.
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An interesting thread to re-surface...........
Some way back in my family tree one of my ancestors married into the Galloway tinkers - I only found this out a couple of years ago whilst working on my mother's family tree. Now, this had never been spoken of before, so whether she knew or not I don't know. I suspect she did know but kept it very quiet - she was ashamed of her upbringing in a poor shepherd's/farmworker's family, so would have been black affronted if anyone found out about this. I have more research to do on it to try and find out more info.
I need to read up more on the Galloway tinkers in general too.
In the meantime, I've just bought 'The Horsieman' for 39p from Amazon, and am off to have a read about gypsies in Scotland from the link.
Information can pop up in the most unexpected places, so thanks for the thread revival.
Some way back in my family tree one of my ancestors married into the Galloway tinkers - I only found this out a couple of years ago whilst working on my mother's family tree. Now, this had never been spoken of before, so whether she knew or not I don't know. I suspect she did know but kept it very quiet - she was ashamed of her upbringing in a poor shepherd's/farmworker's family, so would have been black affronted if anyone found out about this. I have more research to do on it to try and find out more info.
I need to read up more on the Galloway tinkers in general too.
In the meantime, I've just bought 'The Horsieman' for 39p from Amazon, and am off to have a read about gypsies in Scotland from the link.
Information can pop up in the most unexpected places, so thanks for the thread revival.
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