Replica Polish Lavvu?

[Kai1291]

Hi all,

This is my first post and I'm fairly new to the bushcrafting community.

I'm an avid hiker and trekker in the Swiss Alps and Jura. I found and bought a set of Polish lavvu size 3 ponchos being sold on eBay for 115 euros including shipping. The seller had excellent reviews.

Turns out the lavvu he was selling, which was advertised as 1970's tents, were actually manufactured in 2001 and do not have the original label on them (small stamped card with manufacturing details). Instead, it has a small label with Lubawa S.A. written on them. The date stamp on the back says 10/2001.

When contacting the seller he said I was right and that these are part of a set manufactured in 2001 and there are no others available...

Do any of you have these news lavvus? How do they compare to the old ones? I'm considering sending them back or, if the seller won't take them, to file a complaint with PayPal.

Best,
Kai1291

 

[Erbswurst]

No Idea.
Please give us the link to your seller. So others can avoid that problem.

Grüetzy and welcome to the forum!

Räer in Hildesheim offers polish grade 1 tents (here called A/B) for 69 €.

Links to the shop are not working for british users. I told it them several times, but they didn't change it.

Perhaps you can find it directly if you Google for RAEER HILDESHEIM. It's under "Zelte, Armeezelte klein". The last you have to open to see the green one, the black one is currently sold out. So klick on "Zelte" and than on "Armeezelte Klein" instead of klicking directly on the black tent.

British surplus shops offer those tents as well by the way for more or less the same price. But if you are sitting in Switzerland you should call Raeer and tell them that you want a large one and explaine them how to notice the differences in sizes.

The guy in the last video on page 5 on our "recommended educational films" list explains all and everything about the polish army tent:

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/threads/recommended-educational-films-about-the-propper-classical-way-of-bushcraft-and-survival.153904/page-5

Here a link to the tent and Räer in Hildesheim:

Armeebekleidung - Bundeswehr und Army Shop -Outdoor Ausrüstung - raeer.com.

Ihr Partner für Armeebekleidung und Ausrüstung aus Hildesheim. Schon seit 1920 gibt es bei uns neue und gebrauchte Bekleidung und Ausrüstung aus Beständen von Armee, Polizei, Zivilschutz, Grenzschutz, funktionell und verschleißfest.

www.raeer.com

 

[BigMonster]

Polish guy and lavvu aficionado here.
After researching the subject it turned out they have restarted the manufacturing in 2001. polish lavvu now have a new symbol "Wz211" (which means mk211). They are very rare on the civilian market to find as they only meant to be issued to the army. I could only find single units on various polish trade websites.
So:
1. I never heard of lavvus being cloned, as they come from surplus they are already cheaper to buy than to make. So you are 99% got the real deal. Also the marking is genuine, Lubawa SA is the name of the factory in town Lubawa.
2. From fairly detailed pictures on the website below, WZ211 looks like a decent version of the original lavvu, you might actually be getting a better quality as back in the day "quantity was a quality on it's own"...
3. If it looks and works like a lavvu and you are not that bothered about 1970 experience I wouldn't fight it. At leas you got size 3 in fresh condition without any mold or faulty stitching. You basically gotten a newer batch.

But if you are in trouble and need some help with translation or communication drop me a private message and I'll try to help.

Best pictures I could find:

Peleryna namiot wojsk... w Mundur

Peleryna namiot wojsk lądowych - wz. 211/MON - Dla mnie ciekawostka, że nadal w wojsku używa się takich rzeczy... w nie zmienionej postaci od prawie 100lat. - Zobacz eksponat w Wirtualnym Muzeum

myvimu.com

 

[Kai1291]

EDIT thread title: changed the thread title from fake to replica.

@Erbswurst : thanks for the info - as written earlier in my post, I've edited the title because I feel it wouldn't be fair toward the eBay seller by claiming he sold me a fake. It's not. However, I do feel he should've made a more accurate listing... The user is slavo10 and he answer quickly and shipment was fast too.

@BigMonster : thanks for the reply! That's just what I wanted to hear. The lavvu feels very "clean" and I have, so far, not been able to spot any defects. I really appreciate your offer to help me with translations, but I've decided to keep the lavvu. By the way, I now realize you made the YouTube video that convinced me to purchase my lavvu!

 

[crosslandkelly]

Hi Kai, welcome to the forum.
As a Polish lavvu user myself, I would say you are wrong to call it a fake or a replica. You simply have a newer Polish Poncho Lavvu. Mine dates from 1978 and is starting to show it's age. I'd like one that is twenty odd years newer.

 

[Kai1291]

Thanks @crosslandkelly - Then I should definitely consider myself lucky!

Do any of you use a NVA Zeltbahn? At first I hesitated between the two, the NVA tent being cheaper, however, given my size and the fact I want to start off with a "closing" tent I opted for the lavvu.

 

[Erbswurst]

Good news!
It's nice to read that this great tents exist in new original production. I guess the newer ones are made in a better quality than the old ones. Surely worth the bit more money. Still incredible cheap!

I own and used the eastern German NVA Zeltbahn /tent.
That is a good version for 3 or 6 people.

Alone or with 2 persons the polish tent is the better option!

You need 3 NVA tent parts to create a pyramide tent. It's usable as a sleeping bag in hot summer nights. It makes a great sun-sail if you connect 6.

We used them mainly in southern France in the summer as tent, sun-sail, sleeping bag, coat, rain coat. For this use they are great especialy for a 6 persons group or three friends on summer tour with ultra light but old school equipment.

If you make the pyramide tent from three parts, you lay them in a square, a 90 degree angel and connect the buttons at the missing quarter. The 3 pegs go in the corners, not at the connected buttoned seams. You fold three edges from peg to tip, diagonal over the tent parts, the connections are not the edges of the pyramide! You fold nothing under like with a tarp, videos which show that are produced by beginners who have no idea about the correct way how to use that stuff.
Unfortunaly I didn't find a video about the correct construction, and I surched it a long time. I asked someone to do it later. I will put it in here, when it comes out.

The construction is similar to the 3x3 tarp pyramide tent in our recommended educational film list, #75, but instead of folding the fourth quarter away you don't carry it with you:

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/threads/recommended-educational-films-about-the-propper-classical-way-of-bushcraft-and-survival.153904/page-4

 

[Nug]

Hello, I'm new among you. I found myself here while looking for a lavvu tent.

I've been searching for a lavvu tent for a long time. As far as I can see, there is a distinction between the Polish Lavvu tent and the standard lavvu tent. Are there any differences? Is there anyone to inform about this? I would be glad if you mention your experiences and features.

Is there anywhere I can find a UK tent? Where would you like me to go in the UK? Or am I too late for this idea this year?

Thank you, I am happy to be among you.

 

[BigMonster]

My hunble video:

 

[Erbswurst]

A warm welcome to you from one of the biggest Turkish towns, Berlin.



There is a German Boy Scout tent that was inspired by Scandinavic lavvus / kottas but costructed as a portable 4 piece group tent.

It exists in a 4 to 6 and in a 4 to 8 persons size.
But it's portable with just 2 persons too if one takes the smaller size, and I can set it up alone as well, it's just a question of a bit training.

I wrote about it here:

Tents for DofE expeditions

Hey all Wondering if anyone helps out with DofE / scouts / other youth organisation and what tents you use? We use Banshee 300s but the recent generations of this tent have decreased in quality. Anyone got any recommendations? Ta, Hud

bushcraftuk.com

Should you have an uncle in Germany like a lot of Turkish people do, he probably could bring it to you in the next holydays to save the shipping costs to send it to you.

If you are interested in this, I will explain it a bit more to you, to avoid that you get the wrong version.

 

[Erbswurst]

That's a more expensive high quality option, with a longer waiting list:

Tschum 4P KATUN - Trekkingzelt aus Baumwolle

Tschum 4P KATUN

tschum.de

 

[Erbswurst]

And apart from the cotton fabric options mentioned above there are several plastic fabric versions of several makers like this, which are very light weight.

Don't misunderstand it, this tent costs 230 € complete but you could also buy only the outer tent, what I use in Mediterranean circumstances.
The outer tent alone costs here 160 € and for mediterranean countries I recommend the colour "desert" what is a brighter brown olive, nearly invisible in dry vegetation but also easy to hide in green forest.

Sil Hexpeak V4a

Sil Hexpeak V4a

luxeoutdoor.de

Other makers offer simpler made but cheaper tents that are similar.

 

[Erbswurst]

Here you have an offer for a used polish army tent:

Poln. Zelt oliv Zweimannzelt Zeltbahn Zeltplane Poncho Lavvu gebraucht

Original Zweimannzelt der polnischen Armee.

www.militarybasics.de

 

[Erbswurst]

And here it is unused, new but probably stored very long.

Militär Zelte beim Online-Fachhändler kaufen | Military Basics

Militär Zelte mehrerer Hersteller online beim Fachhändler kaufen ✓ Großes Sortiment permanent im Angebot ✓ Gebraucht und neu → Hier geht es zum Sortiment

www.militarybasics.de

 

[Danqrl]

Polish guy and lavvu aficionado here.
After researching the subject it turned out they have restarted the manufacturing in 2001. polish lavvu now have a new symbol "Wz211" (which means mk211). They are very rare on the civilian market to find as they only meant to be issued to the army. I could only find single units on various polish trade websites.
So:
1. I never heard of lavvus being cloned, as they come from surplus they are already cheaper to buy than to make. So you are 99% got the real deal. Also the marking is genuine, Lubawa SA is the name of the factory in town Lubawa.
2. From fairly detailed pictures on the website below, WZ211 looks like a decent version of the original lavvu, you might actually be getting a better quality as back in the day "quantity was a quality on it's own"...
3. If it looks and works like a lavvu and you are not that bothered about 1970 experience I wouldn't fight it. At leas you got size 3 in fresh condition without any mold or faulty stitching. You basically gotten a newer batch.

But if you are in trouble and need some help with translation or communication drop me a private message and I'll try to help.

Best pictures I could find:

Peleryna namiot wojsk... w Mundur

Peleryna namiot wojsk lądowych - wz. 211/MON - Dla mnie ciekawostka, że nadal w wojsku używa się takich rzeczy... w nie zmienionej postaci od prawie 100lat. - Zobacz eksponat w Wirtualnym Muzeum

myvimu.com

Great post thanks for this, the size 2 unissued Lavvu I just purchased said it was made in 2003 so I was curious about it, I wasn't overly concerned by the date because it looks amazing and with just a trial run in the garden it seems to work great. Ill be taking it on a 2 night camp this weekend.

 

[MikeeMiracle]

I believe the newer ones use thinner material than the originals. I hear military mart are going to start producing replica's Lavvu's soon.

 

[Erbswurst]

Does anybody know who was the original maker?