Ray Mears - Survival Handbook - Possibles
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There are places I go around the world, and even in the UK, where you have to have a reliable navigation system that will just work first time, every time - if I was getting rid of kit it would be phone and GPS that would go, keeping my map and compass. On the ground things like GPS etc are secondary navigation systems - KISS
Indeed, as do all 'survival books' there are only so many ways to write; get water, make fire, build shelter, find food...
The one book I have with is a real departure from the usual is the Australian Traditional Bush Crafts by Ron Edwards series, there's ten of them (I only have one at the moment) and the one I have is a real departure from the usual stuff. I bought it from a secondhand shop and its one of the more interesting and useful books I have on the subject.
There's a massive amount of leatherwork info in them which might not be to some peoples tastes, I can cope but I'm not that interested in doing leatherwork at the moment, there's enough tools I have in the house without all that as well.
Its also aimed more at the homesteaders rather than the weekenders so its long term living.
I think that the difference between survival & bushcraft is a fine line. Survival is what it says it is, bushcraft is about being comfortable and perhaps starts where survival finishes. But this has been endlessly debated in other threads. Thanks to Graveworm for posting the 12 Woodlores whist I was off-line.
We've veered awy from the original thread question though; I've almost always got a swiss army knife and a few meters of paracord in my pocket. Since I stopped smoking I've not always got matches or a lighter though. I have a possibles pouch very like the one described on Paul Kirtleys' blog http://paulkirtley.co.uk/2011/bushcraft-survival-kit/ When I was a kid I made a survival kit based on a 1970's book for children "Survival for Young People" and a bit later I read Lofty Wiseman's book and make a 'baccy tin kit. I accumulated bits and pieces in a variety of containers over the years until I attended the first 'Applied Bushcraft' course which was designed and run by Paul Kirtley whilst he was still at Woodlore. We talked on that course about possibles and survival kits and Paul showed us the kit he carries and later described on his blog. There's been several threads about these sort of kits like this one http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20960 Of course these kits are no replacement for practice and experience. It doesn't matter what you've got if you don't know what to do with it (Ooo-err Missus!)
I remember our local library used to have a copy of Ray's "Survival Handbook" and I must have borrowed it a dozen times back in the day. It hasn't aged very well but all the key ideas are there and reappear more refined in "Bushcraft". But the featured kit is obviously all about what was available at the time. A Thermarest is pretty much the only bit of branded kit Ray recommended in that first book that made it through to "Bushcraft" in 2002 and, it could be argued, still hasn't been bettered. Though saying that I was still using a Mini Maglite until a very few years ago when I ditched it for a more efficient and smaller/lighter LED torch. What kit have other people got that they've been using for years?
We've veered awy from the original thread question though; I've almost always got a swiss army knife and a few meters of paracord in my pocket. Since I stopped smoking I've not always got matches or a lighter though. I have a possibles pouch very like the one described on Paul Kirtleys' blog http://paulkirtley.co.uk/2011/bushcraft-survival-kit/ When I was a kid I made a survival kit based on a 1970's book for children "Survival for Young People" and a bit later I read Lofty Wiseman's book and make a 'baccy tin kit. I accumulated bits and pieces in a variety of containers over the years until I attended the first 'Applied Bushcraft' course which was designed and run by Paul Kirtley whilst he was still at Woodlore. We talked on that course about possibles and survival kits and Paul showed us the kit he carries and later described on his blog. There's been several threads about these sort of kits like this one http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20960 Of course these kits are no replacement for practice and experience. It doesn't matter what you've got if you don't know what to do with it (Ooo-err Missus!)
I remember our local library used to have a copy of Ray's "Survival Handbook" and I must have borrowed it a dozen times back in the day. It hasn't aged very well but all the key ideas are there and reappear more refined in "Bushcraft". But the featured kit is obviously all about what was available at the time. A Thermarest is pretty much the only bit of branded kit Ray recommended in that first book that made it through to "Bushcraft" in 2002 and, it could be argued, still hasn't been bettered. Though saying that I was still using a Mini Maglite until a very few years ago when I ditched it for a more efficient and smaller/lighter LED torch. What kit have other people got that they've been using for years?
It's worth noting a couple of things (from somebody who makes his living by teaching folk to navigate, and spends his evenings rescuing those who cannot navigate):
- GPS-enabled phones are great, but the apps eat into battery life at a hell of a rate and will fail when you need them most. We're seeing an increasing number of callouts where the misper was using a smartphone app as the primary method of navigation. Compasses work almost indefinitely, work when wet, work in the dark and don't require batteries...
- A common theme amongst folk coming on mountain nav courses with me is "I used to know how to do this, but I struggle with pacing/timing/relocation/whatever now". Navigation skills need to be practised to keep your eye in. You want to be able to get yourself to safety in the dark, in poor weather and when you are tired instinctively, not whilst trying to recall how to use a compass properly. I advise people to navigate using map and compass every time they go out in the hills/woods etc, even if the weather is great and they are following a marked path.
- GPS-enabled phones are great, but the apps eat into battery life at a hell of a rate and will fail when you need them most. We're seeing an increasing number of callouts where the misper was using a smartphone app as the primary method of navigation. Compasses work almost indefinitely, work when wet, work in the dark and don't require batteries...
- A common theme amongst folk coming on mountain nav courses with me is "I used to know how to do this, but I struggle with pacing/timing/relocation/whatever now". Navigation skills need to be practised to keep your eye in. You want to be able to get yourself to safety in the dark, in poor weather and when you are tired instinctively, not whilst trying to recall how to use a compass properly. I advise people to navigate using map and compass every time they go out in the hills/woods etc, even if the weather is great and they are following a marked path.
Actually I think you can see his kit change as he travels more and makes more money.
Is there not a few jokes about all survival books being a reworking of the US military survival manual.
Am I serously the only person who carries a spare mobile phone battery? I also have a battery powered charger thinking about it. The only reason I have not brought a tablet yet is it is so hard to get one that usb charges.
I get what everyone is saying but and it is a big but I carry the map and compass, I just do not use them.
Ok, that is really interesting might start doing that. I had not given that side of it much thought. That the skills would not be there when I needed them would be a big problem.
Being very honest:
Bushcraft is the gaining of native skills for many reasons for example fire by friction.
Survival is a means to an end ie lighting a fire by the fastest method that is going to work.
The scouts got me prepared so I always have what is now called EDC. I also think that is why the possibles pouch is better than the tin. The tin for me tended to be a static forgotten thing. The possibles are an ongoing life experience thing, that change on expected conditions.
Actually to a certain extent Shingsowa might have a big point for certain items I carry when I cannot carry what I want.
Me too. Took me years to find a copy. It was the first book of this kind that made sense to me. Forget the tin and carry the stuff the way I was already.
That might actually be the difference between Bushcraft and Survival. Survival is about getting yourself out of trouble. Bushcraft is about being able to live were other people struggle.
Am I serously the only person who carries a spare mobile phone battery? I also have a battery powered charger thinking about it. The only reason I have not brought a tablet yet is it is so hard to get one that usb charges.
I get what everyone is saying but and it is a big but I carry the map and compass, I just do not use them.
Remember that a lot of smartphone users are using the iPhone, which doesn't give you the option of carrying a spare. Once you get into carrying external powermonkey type packs then IMO you might as well carry a standalone GPS instead.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a technophobe. I've used my iPhone more than once to get a quick grid ref when arriving at an incident site, particularly the Viewranger type software that doesn't rely on having a data signal. I also normally carry a Satmap that I use more as an electronic map than a GPS as it is rugged, reliable and easy to use with big gloves on! It's quite useful to keep in a front pocket when out walking/searching, as it gives me a visual representation of where I am on a map, which I can then transfer onto the same scale OS paper map when I need to navigate 'properly', without transposing a 10-figure grid ref over.
I get what everyone is saying but and it is a big but I carry the map and compass, I just do not use them.
Remember that a lot of smartphone users are using the iPhone, which doesn't give you the option of carrying a spare. Once you get into carrying external powermonkey type packs then IMO you might as well carry a standalone GPS instead.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a technophobe. I've used my iPhone more than once to get a quick grid ref when arriving at an incident site, particularly the Viewranger type software that doesn't rely on having a data signal. I also normally carry a Satmap that I use more as an electronic map than a GPS as it is rugged, reliable and easy to use with big gloves on! It's quite useful to keep in a front pocket when out walking/searching, as it gives me a visual representation of where I am on a map, which I can then transfer onto the same scale OS paper map when I need to navigate 'properly', without transposing a 10-figure grid ref over.
One of the reasons I have not upgraded to the new version of my phone is Samsung Galaxy S3 is the same.
I think you have hit on my original point to be honest. Go back twenty years and this book was my bible. Now reading it thinking the world has changed so much. It actually a good point for Bushcraft. The skills we want just fell out of use because they where replaced by easier ways of doing things, or cheaper alternatives.
but has it realy - maybe our reliance on technology has changed US but the basics stay the same - plent of primative survival references work just as well in a survival or bushcraft setting now as they did hundreds or thousands of years ago, bow drills flint knapping etc.
whether an individual has moved towards a more modern approach is irrelivant the old ways still work as they worked at the time -otherwise civilisation would have died out....
whether an individual has moved towards a more modern approach is irrelivant the old ways still work as they worked at the time -otherwise civilisation would have died out....
I agree with the OP - I take a compas and map with me when I go out walking, but never use the compass unless I am showing my kids how to use it. The maps are used rarely and are often a pain as we usually travel from one map to another (sometimes three maps as I live in a corner of the OS world....) so I can see how it is more convienient to use a phone or GPS to get a baring/location. Another plus for the phone is that you can use it for real emergencies such as medical or injuries where walking is not possible.
I can see the logic for non reliance on technology but new things have their merits too as at some point a magnetic compass was a new thing.
I can see the logic for non reliance on technology but new things have their merits too as at some point a magnetic compass was a new thing.
Of course if you have signal then a pine is great to call for help, butit will do buggerall if the battery is flat due to running the GPS chip. A compass works, my phone stays either on in a dry bag in my pack or off with the battery removed for longer trips.
That is the same mindset as the people who drive onto railway lines, down dead ends, farm tracks etc because they are blindly following their Satnav. In time, the ability to plan, think, anticipate and navigate is being lost. As evidence, I offer the recent tale of the teenage daughter of a work friend; the daughter was going mental becuase she wanted to go out to a large town with her friends and the satnav in her Mum's car was broken.
She was genuinely incapable of looking at a map, noting the direction and road numbers and then following the signs...
Ok not to be drawn into the compass vs phone debate, or the bushcraft vs. survival debate. and in answer to the OP
What I alway have on me, usually in my jacket pocket
Penknife (SAK) unless on a plane.
compass.
strike anywhere matches in a 35mm film box and cotton wool.
about 2 meters of waxed string.
needle, and cotton
What I alway have on me, usually in my jacket pocket
Penknife (SAK) unless on a plane.
compass.
strike anywhere matches in a 35mm film box and cotton wool.
about 2 meters of waxed string.
needle, and cotton
I was not arguing at all. I was merely putting forward the thought that the second something comes along to make life easier, we start to lose the skills required to perform the original task. You only have to look around now and start worrying of the effect the calculator, computer and google are going to have.
Interesting I had read in one of the reviews that it was listed as a down side. Thanks for that, may have to look harder at it, but the new bigger phones do look really interesting.
