Ray Mears Hits Back at Anti 4x4 Lobby

[BIG-TARGET]

OBSERVATION FROM THE "OUTSIDE":

As we call it, in the states: "more liberal Nanny-state mentality in action"

If there is something you enjoy, it must must be bad for you, and hence, OUTLAWED!!!!

This is where you, the great unwashed masses, can exercise you power. Tell any/all councelmen/ parlimentarian/congressman, etc. :" if you pass this law, kiss your job good-bye at the next election!!!"

If you don't vote, you don't matter. And you're just as ignorant, as those in the capital think you are!!

I step down from my soapbox!!

 

[Aaron]

Now my argument is that, fine, tax the pants of those flashy gits who have as much need of a 4x4 as i have as using masculine moisturiser. BUT, after my landy went to heaven, i couldn't afford to buy, let alone run, a new truck. The tax and fuel etc is now just too inhibitive for me to run one now. the only people who can afford to run them now, are those who don't need them.
Surely, the big manufacturers can build a decent, rugged, off road truck, that doesn't need a friendly arab to help run it. As it is, i think i'm going back to the origional off road wagon, the horse (more comfy than the landy actually).
Baggins[/QUOTE]

Well said mate, although I though the new higher rate of tax on 4x4's only applied to those under 5 years old.....
Anyway, I feel that the a persons need for a 4x4 can very much be guaged by the vehicle that they drive - could you honestly see a farmer driving round a field in a muddy Porshce Cayenne or VW Touraeg with a sheepdog and a load of fencing wire and posts in the back? I dont think so. Working 4x4's such as Defenders, Toyota Hilux, Dihatsu Foutracks et al are generally pretty basic in the level of passenger and driver comforts that they offer - try driving a Defender for a a few days and see how much your clutch foot hurts! If these 4x4's were the only ones made available on the market I can guarantee that the number of people driving 4x4's would halve overnight - I cant see Tasmin from Notting Hill putting little Zac and Molly in the back seats of her Series III (come to think of it, what back seats?) and popping down to the local Waitrose for some humous and a nice chardonnay, can you?

 

[ricksurfgod]

I think you'll find the majority of farmers in england binned off landies many a year ago for their jap counterparts. This was mainly because of reliabilty issues and the fact that you get a lot more bang for your buck with toyoter et all (shame for landy really). Its only the rich ones these days that bother with the solihull stuff from new as like most of the townies its a status symbol. My old grandad these days uses a rav four to cart the dog around in and go to the sheep he's had a number of jeeps and landies over the years and was not impressed with their costs and efforts. IMHO got for second hand jap and if you have the option get automatics as they seem to have the smoother power delivery for off roading (ask the Icelandic and a number of the guys buildingtrials vehicles). When I bought the Delica a year ago I looked at all sorts of vehicles(and sought my dad's opinion as an ex landrover mechanic) for the £3500 mark I've sat myself in a comfortable offroader with seven adult seats and all the toys, the landy equivelents were S111's with crap 2 1/4 petrol engines or rotten v8's. The added bonus is that with the shogun running gear my bus will and has taken me any where a standard 110 or range rover will go in more comfort more reliably using less fuel (especially as she runs on Greenway Macho tyres!).
I'm in full agreement with banning 4x4's from being used by mothers delivering little Tarquin to school. Just look verey morning at St Peters school in York its a collection of cayennes, range rovers and g wagons with one child and a woman who can bearly see over the steering wheel. people like this are a menace and should be taken out an given a good thrashing for their stupidity.

 

[spamel]

I think all owners of 4x4 vehicles should, by law, have to attend a four or five day off road driving course regardless of whether they are gonna drive off road or not. They also have to use their own vehicle and it should include massive gradients, deep wading a fjording, winching and maintenance.

We'll only see the real users own one then!!

 

[ricksurfgod]

I'm not sure about the winching that just seems like a toy to save using jacks etc but I'm with you on the other stuff. I've always though all car drivers should spend a year or two on small motorbikes or mopeds to gain better road manners i.e. understand how vunerable all others are.

 

[demographic]

If you must put a higher tax on anything put it on fuel, keep it off the vehicle and that way its an incentive to use a fuel efficiant car.

I don't understand why theres a vehicle road tax at all, the only reason I can see for even having tax discs is to prove that your car was legal at the day it was taxed.

Oh and while we are on the subject of persecuting motorists is there any chance of the government calling in an airstrike on the numpty on my street that can't manage to park in a space I can fit my Transit into so always takes up two spaces

 

[sheepdogbob]

OBSERVATION FROM THE "OUTSIDE":

As we call it, in the states: "more liberal Nanny-state mentality in action"

If there is something you enjoy, it must must be bad for you, and hence, OUTLAWED!!!!

For years this was known as 'Puritianism' as the hardcore thinkers must be 'righter' than those with better things to do. The sackcloth & ashes regime lasted until Cromwell died, then it was back to the Caveliers & King but with Parliment to limit the power collected in one person - the people got so sick of all the fun being sucked out of life!

I find that if you think of transport as a tool, then things become clearer.
Don't forget that if you put non-standard mud tyres on a vehicle, things become much easier (you may have to change the rims).

 

[MartiniDave]

Once "they"'ve finished hitting 4x4's, their attention will turn to people carriers, followed by larger estate cars, followed by smaller estate cars and so on.
Ultimately the goal seems to be raising as much cash as possible using the cash cow of "green" taxing, followed by a desire of government to control us and maybe force us all to use public transport, which government controls. Its a good way of making people behave, if you can control their movements.

I find it disturbingly Orwellian.

Dave

 

[gregorach]

Yeah, you're right - it's all part of a Green Party / Illuminati / Bildeberger conspiracy to institute a totalitarian one world government. I was discussing the finer points of the plan with our secret army of Hitler clones just the other week. First we came for the 4x4 drivers...

In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic.

By the way, government hasn't controlled pubic transport in this country for more than 20 years. There was this thing called "privatisation" - perhaps you've heard of it?

 

[MartiniDave]

So, how will you get around when the demon car has been done away with?

Dave

 

[gregorach]

Same way I get around now. I've never owned a car.

 

[MartiniDave]

Dunc,

How do you manage? I live in a fairly rural area, I couldn't even get to work and back on the same day if I relied on public transport.

Dave

 

[gregorach]

I live somewhere with decent public transport, and I live close to my work. My choice of both employer and home were strongly influenced by transport considerations. The idea that you can live a long distance from your work is a recent one, and one without much future in my assessment.

Of course, if the car were to go by the wayside, then there would be a huge demand for improvements in public transport. The problem at the moment is that it's not economic, because people prefer to drive themselves. Why, I'll never understand...

Personally, I don't think there's going to be any need to ban cars. The way global net oil export capacity is going, most people aren't going to be able to afford to run fossil-fuelled vehicles in 20 years time. Oil will be too precious to waste so frivolously.

 

[pothunter]

Dunc

Nobody controls public transport thats the problem, I was in Germany last week and used trams light rail etc. frequent, clean and reliable. In addition free or low cost out of town secure parking.

Took a colleague to Switzerland earlier this year he was horrified at the thought of using public transport and amazed when it worked.

Give me an alternative and I will use it where possible.

Unfortunately those in charge plan for yesterday and have budgets that do not allow them to follow thou with their inadequate plans.

Each time I return to the UK I am appalled at the state of our infrastructure and continue to wonder when it will eventually fail alltogether.

Some of the realities are that much fuel is wasted in traffic jams and due to poor road surfaces. Many of us have our working day extended due to late trains, buses and the fact that the time tables of the one have no relationship to the other, also the limited capacity of trains and buses restricted by Victorian railways and roads built for horses and carts.

Best leave it there before I start on about microwave operators posing as chefs and the ban everything brigade and .............

Just off to find a soap box, Pothunter.

 

[gregorach]

Hey, you don't need to talk to me about the failings of the UK public transport system - I've been using it heavily for many years!

As I see it, the fundamental problem is that somehow we ended up with the idea that it's OK to use public money to subsidize private transport, but not public transport. And then of course there's the whole issue with road haulage... Did you know that an HGV (40 tonne) causes between 60 and 100 thousand times more road wear than a passenger car? So getting that freight onto the rails or canals would significantly reduce both congestion and road maintenance...

 

[BorderReiver]

Hey, you don't need to talk to me about the failings of the UK public transport system - I've been using it heavily for many years!

As I see it, the fundamental problem is that somehow we ended up with the idea that it's OK to use public money to subsidize private transport, but not public transport. And then of course there's the whole issue with road haulage... Did you know that an HGV (40 tonne) causes between 60 and 100 thousand times more road wear than a passenger car? So getting that freight onto the rails or canals would significantly reduce both congestion and road maintenance...

Pity about Beeching really.

BTW,when I worked,I pedalled 12 miles to work and 12 miles home five days a week.With less cars about that could become a more pleasant way to commute.

I agree that Public Transport needs sorting out properly,before trying to do something about cars.At the moment it is expensive,unreliable,inconvenient etc.

 

[gregorach]

Well, there's a horrible chicken-and-egg problem there... It's very, very difficult to make public transport work well (or indeed, at all) with the levels of traffic that we currently have, and it's horribly uneconomic to run a decent public transport service without high usage levels. You really need to address both problems at once somehow.

It's kinda like the old joke about asking a directions in Ireland - "Well, I wouldn't be starting from here if I were you..." (Apologies to any offended Irish )

 

[BorderReiver]

Well, there's a horrible chicken-and-egg problem there... It's very, very difficult to make public transport work well (or indeed, at all) with the levels of traffic that we currently have, and it's horribly uneconomic to run a decent public transport service without high usage levels. You really need to address both problems at once somehow.

It's kinda like the old joke about asking a directions in Ireland - "Well, I wouldn't be starting from here if I were you..." (Apologies to any offended Irish )

Not a problem.

All governments are experts at subsidising things that go down the pan.Millions are wasted on rubbish computer systems that never work.

They could just as easily finance and subsidise a really good integrated public transport system that would be cheaper and almost as convenient to use as your own car.After a few years folk would migrate to the transport system and it would be fully utilised and cheaper to run.Just takes a bit of common sense and courage from our politicians.

 

[gregorach]

Well, I'm afraid I don't entirely agree with you there. It's simply not physically possible to make substantial improvements to many public transport systems given the current traffic levels.

For example, here in Edinburgh, the amount of traffic on the streets is already near or at its maximum. It's geologically impractical to put in an underground system, and there isn't space to build a parallel road network. We have to reduce the number of cars on the street in order to have the space to do anything else. As it stands, putting more buses on the road would simply result in gridlock.

 

[BorderReiver]

Start with a good park and ride system;make "in town" parking horribly expensive.Then introduce congestion charges.
The roads are now clear enough for buses and trams and bikes (motor or push).

City centres would be a lot more pleasant to be in,attracting more visitors,all using and paying for your public transport.