Ranger roll sleep system

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Mar 30, 2021
5
9
53
Georgia U.S.A.
Hello Dave,
Was there a typo in that post? "....we don't have extremes of any weather types....down to -6C but (can get) way way colder....summers are extremely humid with averages between 32C and 37C..."
That sounds pretty extreme compared to this mild and temperate island across the Atlantic ;) :lmao:

Welcome to the forum! :bigok:

Chris
Nope no typos. Lol. Georgia isn't as extreme as some states in the Northern parts of the country is where they often get -34C with a couple of feet of snow. There's a few areas on our southeastern where the high often reaches 46C. That's pretty extreme. In other words no a Ranger Roll won't work everywhere.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
2,635
1,013
Berlin
Hello!
Nice to see you in Europe!

:encourage:

What do you think is the lower limit for a combination of US army woodland poncho and a new US army poncho liner, on a US army roll mat, wearing additional the clothing of the day?
(Whithout boots and other waterproofs)

How long can one sleep in it until it becomes unpleasant whet from inside due to sweat condensation? (Assuming the sleeper is able to breath outside the sleep system. )

And what do you think, where is the lower limit with an additional Mylar blanket between poncho and liner?
 
Last edited:
Mar 30, 2021
5
9
53
Georgia U.S.A.
Hello!
Nice to see you in Europe!

:encourage:

What do you think is the lower limit for a combination of US army woodland poncho and a new US army poncho liner, on a US army roll mat, wearing additional the clothing of the day?
(Whithout boots and other waterproofs)

How long can one sleep in it until it becomes unpleasant whet from inside due to sweat condensation? (Assuming the sleeper is able to breath outside the sleep system. )

And what do you think, where is the lower limit with an additional Mylar blanket between poncho and liner?
In my opinion a brand new set up like this is good down to 3C. Of course that's my civilian guess because this was used by military personnel in years past. I often use this during the Fall but rarely ever in winter. Another poster on this thread said he would freeze in Wales in this set up. I won't argue that because I would too if I was in Wales in the winter but I do well in Georgia. Military personnel are a lot tougher than me, I like being comfortable they like not dying of hypothermia. Now I can't answer the question on when temperature condensation shall begin because there's factors involved. Mainly air temperature vs humidity vs dewpoint. Also choice of clothing, vapor permeable? Cotton? Polypropylene or modal? And some people sweat easily and some don't.
 
Last edited:

Kav

Member
Mar 28, 2021
46
46
67
California
Hello!
Nice to see you in Europe!

:encourage:

What do you think is the lower limit for a combination of US army woodland poncho and a new US army poncho liner, on a US army roll mat, wearing additional the clothing of the day?
(Whithout boots and other waterproofs)

How long can one sleep in it until it becomes unpleasant whet from inside due to sweat condensation? (Assuming the sleeper is able to breath outside the sleep system. )

And what do you think, where is the lower limit with an additional Mylar blanket between poncho and liner?
Take a look at the specs for Austrian Corinthian sleeping bags on Varusteleka. They employ a mylar layer and claim an increase of 11 F with it. I posted earlier about the homeless girl I helped with a Russian Plash Palatka-Mylar, G I 100% wool blanket rig. I tried it later and the Mylar made a signnificant difference. It may have been @ 11F or simply enough in the real world of variables to change a dangerous situation into a miserable one.
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
2,635
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Berlin
I think if one adds a wool blanket next to the body it will suck away a lot of moisture.
But like that the whole thing surely becomes far heavier than a sleeping bag that works better, especially with moisture permeable bivvy bag of course.
 
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TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,653
739
Vantaa, Finland
Mylar made a signnificant difference. It may have been @ 11F or simply enough in the real world of variables to change a dangerous situation into a miserable one.
To be exact Mylar in this case is just the carrier for the very thin Al layer that does most of the work by reflecting heat back. But depending on the set up a plastic film in some cases does add effective heat insulation by cutting convection and wind heat loss.
 

Kav

Member
Mar 28, 2021
46
46
67
California
To be exact Mylar in this case is just the carrier for the very thin Al layer that does most of the woIdon't know if corintrk by reflecting heat back. But depending on the set up a plastic film in some cases does add effective heat insulation by cutting convection and wind heat loss.
I don't know if Varustelekas' description of Mylar means a 'space blanket' or plastic. We are dealing with Finns who sport tattoos, piercings and--beards ( last not the charming ladies) with a twisted sense of humor; and outstanding service.
'Space Blanket' is from NASAs creation of the first suits worn in our MERCURY PROGRAMME. Look at those old film reels of John Glenn and that shiny outfit is multiple layers of the stuff. I believe another sign of degenerating society is when the Green Army Men and Silver Men from my Moonbase Set as a boy were replaced with all this digital stuff and space station members in polo shirts.
World bushcrafting holds a heavy responsibility in dressing like bushmen ( or in my case joshua trees, redwoods and oak riparian woodland) and NOT Monty Python's LUMBERJACK SONG.
 
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TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,653
739
Vantaa, Finland
I don't know if Varustelekas' description of Mylar means a 'space blanket' or plastic.
In this case it means infrared reflecting (at least they say so).

We are dealing with Finns who sport tattoos, piercings and--beards ( last not the charming ladies) with a twisted sense of humor; and outstanding service.
I visit their shop and bar quite often and know most of the people there by sight and quite a few by name. By Finnish standard their humor is just marginally odd. :)
 
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Kav

Member
Mar 28, 2021
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46
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California
My Finnish-American, Russian Orthdox priest was giving communion last easter, spooned the wine in my mouth and whispered 'You have shaving soap in your ear.' It was Mitchell's Woolfat, not my fault.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
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Yes, the Orthodox Church is underestimated for sure. I also know a few of these guys, Russians in my case, and they all are everything else than boring.
I organised for example a bushcraft camp in Mecklenburg together with the cathedral chief of Novosibirsk, he, 10 younger Siberian Kosaks and 50 German Scouts, and it was very funny and absolutely great!

Probably the best 2 weeks of my life.
 
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TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,653
739
Vantaa, Finland
Yes the Orthodox Church differs from the Catholic quite a lot. It is the other "official" form of Christianity in Finland. For historical reasons the Finnish Orthodox church is directly under Constantinopol Patriarch not Moscow's. One must admit though that they are somewhat quarrelsome lot but in many respects closer to life than other variants.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
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Berlin
I think it mainly depends on the age of the poncho liner. But if @ReallyBigMonkey assumes that the new US version can be used (in clothing of the day) down to 3 *C, just poncho + liner, it's probably worth a tough to get the Italian army Defcon 5 poncho with its poncho liner, because it is available brand new and large enough.

Of course it is very individual.
But I assume that - perhaps due to genetic origin, perhaps due to some kind of individual training during the life time - inhabitants of areas that usually become pretty cold are a bit less sensitive against the cold.
For example I did drink at the Côte d'Azur often my coffee comfortably wearing a T-shirt and was surrounded by French who still did wear padded jackets. I don't know the reason but it's surely no question of fashion.

Perhaps a Finnish woodsman is even 3 or 5 degrees less sensitive than somebody who grew up in Georgia? Perhaps you can use the same system until -1*C, I until 0*C, a Scot until 1 *C, a Welsh until 2*C and a really big monkey just until 3*C???
I think that's possible, as I even noticed that colleagues from Cologne are approximately 5 *C more sensible than me, who grew up at the western border of the continental climate and was used to be outdoors all the life.
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
2,635
1,013
Berlin
@ReallyBigMonkey

I called Defcon 5 and spoke there with a pretty well informed gentleman.
I asked him why the poncho liner is longer than the poncho.

200 x 168 cm poncho
210 x 168 cm poncho liner

He couldn't tell it me, because they didn't develop the pattern. They just make it how the Italian army ordered it.

Do you have an idea why they ordered it like this?

Has the US army poncho the same dimensions as the US army poncho liner?

Or do you think that the Italian army designers simply made a fault?



What's the weight of the US army poncho liner? And what's the weight of the US army lightweight (woodland) poncho?
And which dimensions do they have?

Defcon 5 poncho 400 g
(without bag just 350g)
Defcon 5 poncho liner 850 g
(Perhaps a bit lighter without bag too)
 
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TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,653
739
Vantaa, Finland
The colder your native climate is the more one tends value comfortable warmth but Dubai is just too much. It is of course true that one gets used to most things that don't kill you, one can get used to cool conditions but not really cold. I am always feeling the cold worse in springtime, autumn is a lot easier for some reason.

I remember one March in Madeira when it was a comfortable 18 C, the locals were in almost full winter cloths and wife and I were walking around in shorts and T-shirts. Apparently they were used to crazy Finns as we did not attract even a glance.
 
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Kav

Member
Mar 28, 2021
46
46
67
California
Yes, the Orthodox Church is underestimated for sure. I also know a few of these guys, Russians in my case, and they all are everything else than boring.
I organised for example a bushcraft camp in Mecklenburg together with the cathedral chief of Novosibirsk, he, 10 younger Siberian Kosaks and 50 German Scouts, and it was very funny and absolutely great!

Probably the best 2 weeks of my life.
I was baptized Anglican by our housekeeper, young lady from a UK Caribbean island under some postwar program under the US base for lendlease deal in WW2. My mother was bedridden for a weekand she was worried for my immortal soul.
Later We were in San Francisco; a second home for our family. I got left behind somehow downtown. I was only 5, knew where I was but no way to get home. I'm standing in front of the Russian church and no less than Saint John of Shanghai stepped out and took me in for tea from a samovar and cookies. My aunt drove over, alcoholic and lived top of no less than the famous Lombard aka curley cue street and hit every curb in a big fat Chrysler all the way up. I was enrolled in a private Episcopalian school 3-6 grade. Vicar was a huge orangeman played all Ireland and taught us proper world football and latin. he knew my republican family branch ancestry and would square off in his cassock and say 'now,ya wee repuublicaan, try and get past me now' and I'd charge him like cuchullain .
THEN I was reintroduced to the Russian church in Kodiak Alaska and now attend both. I got out and spent 4 months in a California Zendo, go to the Hindu temple with my neighbors and have been studying sufism with a refugee Yemeni Iman. It's all good and the food better.
 
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Mar 30, 2021
5
9
53
Georgia U.S.A.
@ReallyBigMonkey

I called Defcon 5 and spoke there with a pretty well informed gentleman.
I asked him why the poncho liner is longer than the poncho.

200 x 168 cm poncho
210 x 168 cm poncho liner

He couldn't tell it me, because they didn't develop the pattern. They just make it how the Italian army ordered it.

Do you have an idea why they ordered it like this?

Has the US army poncho the same dimensions as the US army poncho liner?

Or do you think that the Italian army designers simply made a fault?



What's the weight of the US army poncho liner? And what's the weight of the US army lightweight (woodland) poncho?
And which dimensions do they have?

Defcon 5 poncho 400 g
(without bag just 350g)
Defcon 5 poncho liner 850 g
(Perhaps a bit lighter without bag too)
The U.S. Army poncho and liner are the same size. I'm assuming the Italian liner is larger so it'll overlap when wrapped around you like a blanket? The weight of the liner is roughly 500g and poncho 400g. I say roughly because I have a 250 pound scale that's not very sensitive and I had to convert the weights
 
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TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,653
739
Vantaa, Finland
And I would like to add; for surviving cold nights, not for being comfortable.
:) yep but how many times have you needed it. While certainly a good use I bet that is not very common one. In all my years of walking in the woods I have never been in a "survival" situation where I had lost by primary gear. Wet, cold and generally feeling miserable a few times and totally lost every now and then but those were really not that dangerous, at least in hindsight.
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
2,635
1,013
Berlin
Thank you, @ReallyBigMonkey !

So it looks as if the here new far easier available Italian army / Defcon 5 poncho liner is heavier, thicker and warmer than the US army version.

The point is, that it is longer, not wider than the poncho. It's really a miracle why.

Or better: It's a miracle, why the Italian poncho is just 200 cm long and not 210 cm as usual for NATO ponchos. Italians also aren't the dwarfs anymore they had been in old Roman times...
 
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