Question regarding knife carry

[mrcharly]

For pete's sakes, this is a young person we are talking about.

Are you bunch seriously suggesting that they risk getting a caution or a record over such a trivial thing?

You lot walk around with knives on your belts if you want. That's your choice.

The law is ambiguous, for the sake of avoiding getting into trouble, the sensible thing is for the original poster to put the knife into a bag for the few minutes it will take them to walk to the private land.

 

[santaman2000]

....Practically speaking the likelihood of bumping into a cop in most areas is sadly very low, however, a police response would be generated were a 'wel meaning' member of the public to call in that they'd seen someone carrying a knife. In the current climate the degree of descretion that would be exercised by officers is limited.

My general advice............explain the reason that you're carrying them and the use you're putting the tools to, hopefully you'll have a sensible and reasonable response. This is unlikely to work if what you're carrying is a very agressively bladed knife or something that is obviously not designed for bushcraft use.

Sent from my SM-T819 using Tapatalk

Good advice no matter where you might be stopped or questioned. As a cop I always was suspicious of anybody being evasive or obnoxious.

......Pack your knife in your bag. It isn't just about trying to 'sneak' the knife to woodland without being seen, it is also about 'behaving sensibly'. You are transporting a tool to somewhere to use it. While transporting it, you have no need to have it on your belt.

Yes, it is 'only over the road'. However that is still transporting it via a public place. It is a really good idea to instil in yourself habits like this........

Like Janne, I too think this should be a non-issue (either you have the right to carry it or you don't) However your point is that you should simply avoid conflict is not only valid, but it is the most sensible approach.

...... Like it or not a lot of British law it isn't clear cut and with times as they are its better to avoid potential confrontation....

That's true of the law in most places; not just the UK.


Earlier Janne mentioned "civil disobedience." That only has any affect if a very large portion of the civil populace participates (the point of said exercise being to demonstrate whatever law or practice being disobeyed is too unpopular to continue. I don't believe that's the current situation in the UK (even if I do personally disagree with this law) In this instance, civil disobedience by a small minority would be nothing more than breaking the law as a show of defiance.

 

[Toddy]

Reply to Sunndog.

I thought I was clear too. Oh well.

The police are public servants, they can only work within the framework that society, as a whole, requires.

Rights are balanced with responsibilities, but too often folks wittering on and demanding rights forget that.
In general folks have the 'right' not to be alarmed, that the public peace is not disrupted…..I do agree that the education is sadly lacking on knives as tools though, and still there are young men who carry breadknives in their belts because, and I quote, "I might need it".
Aye indeed, loaves can be fierce stuff

And despite all the crackdowns and rhetoric that's not uncommon; frankly I find it reassuring that there are young males learning to use knives as tools, like the OP, rather than 'tooled up'.

I don't believe that the government reduces our 'rights', I do believe that it works by majority, and that first past the post excludes many….and at that point I think we need to draw a line and mind the forum bit about no politics.
As ever, everyone's understanding of that would be much appreciated.

Educate, demonstrate (as in show good practice) and be responsible. Be courteous and not confrontational with the police.

I understand the frustrations of those who previously owned handguns, but bringing that up every time someone asks how do we deal properly with carrying knives, doesn't help. It just conflates two very different issues on the spurious claim that look what happened and is going to happen again if you don't, ''exercise your rights!!".
Firearms are not tools in the way that knives are.
Every house in the land has multiple knives, for everything from the butter to peeling spuds. My bushcrafty knives are just tools.

M

 

[Stew]

Hello,
First time posting on this forum!

I am a 16 year old who's family owns some forest in which I often practise bushcraft in. To get to this private land I have to cross a quiet (but still public) road.
Since I was 9, I had belt carried 4 inch+ knives across these 15ft of public area to get onto private land. It has only now come to my understanding that I may be breaking the law (either due to age, or general restrictions) when I belt carry a knife/hatchet/saw.
Do I need to keep them hidden away in a rucksack or similar to keep within the law?

The reason I was so unaware to this, is because I was stopped by a patrol car when I was only 10, carrying an air rifle on my back. They asked me what I was doing/where I was going -too which I replied- and drove off with no more questions.

I would be grateful if someone could clear this up.
Thanks.

James.

I hope this thread hasn't put you off the forum James.

 

[Brynglas]

Hello,
First time posting on this forum!

I am a 16 year old who's family owns some forest in which I often practise bushcraft in. To get to this private land I have to cross a quiet (but still public) road.
Since I was 9, I had belt carried 4 inch+ knives across these 15ft of public area to get onto private land. It has only now come to my understanding that I may be breaking the law (either due to age, or general restrictions) when I belt carry a knife/hatchet/saw.
Do I need to keep them hidden away in a rucksack or similar to keep within the law?

The reason I was so unaware to this, is because I was stopped by a patrol car when I was only 10, carrying an air rifle on my back. They asked me what I was doing/where I was going -too which I replied- and drove off with no more questions.

I would be grateful if someone could clear this up.
Thanks.

James.

Hi James,

It would appear that your post has generated quite some discussion here, evidently people in our bushcraft and outdoor community hold strong opinions on the use and carriage of knives as tools.

It's apparent by the fact that you posted the question that you have a thoughtful and sensible approach to the subject. I hope that this healthy discussion has been useful to you and hasn't in any way put you off!

Sent from my SM-T819 using Tapatalk

 

[sunndog]

Reply to Sunndog.

I thought I was clear too. Oh well.

The police are public servants, they can only work within the framework that society, as a whole, requires.

Rights are balanced with responsibilities, but too often folks wittering on and demanding rights forget that.
In general folks have the 'right' not to be alarmed, that the public peace is not disrupted…..I do agree that the education is sadly lacking on knives as tools though, and still there are young men who carry breadknives in their belts because, and I quote, "I might need it".
Aye indeed, loaves can be fierce stuff

And despite all the crackdowns and rhetoric that's not uncommon; frankly I find it reassuring that there are young males learning to use knives as tools, like the OP, rather than 'tooled up'.

I don't believe that the government reduces our 'rights', I do believe that it works by majority, and that first past the post excludes many….and at that point I think we need to draw a line and mind the forum bit about no politics.
As ever, everyone's understanding of that would be much appreciated.

Educate, demonstrate (as in show good practice) and be responsible. Be courteous and not confrontational with the police.

I understand the frustrations of those who previously owned handguns, but bringing that up every time someone asks how do we deal properly with carrying knives, doesn't help. It just conflates two very different issues on the spurious claim that look what happened and is going to happen again if you don't, ''exercise your rights!!".
Firearms are not tools in the way that knives are.
Every house in the land has multiple knives, for everything from the butter to peeling spuds. My bushcrafty knives are just tools.

M

Well its the first time i'v mentioned the handgun ban along with carrying knives. But i don't believe it to be a spurious claim.
It does work by majority but what that means is the minority soft targets will be used to win votes, fact

I understand why you say it given the tone of my posts here but that is here. I'v never been confrontational or 'bolshy' with the police. They are just men and women doing their job no need to make their lives difficult.

I'v been watching. I'v seen too many things banned out of hand not to see the truth as it is. Our knife carry laws are fairly sensible as it stands but its a very small thing to make them that little bit tighter.........then a little bit tighter still.........

 

[Janne]

Re
for everything from the butter to peeling spuds.

M

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Janne]

Hi James,

It would appear that your post has generated quite some discussion here, evidently people in our bushcraft and outdoor community hold strong opinions on the use and carriage of knives as tools.

It's apparent by the fact that you posted the question that you have a thoughtful and sensible approach to the subject. I hope that this healthy discussion has been useful to you and hasn't in any way put you off!

Sent from my SM-T819 using Tapatalk

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Toddy]

I use a Lincolnshire peeler

but I did not know that about Juniper knives
I learned something new again

cheers,
M

 

[Janne]

I use a Lincolnshire peeler

but I did not know that about Juniper knives
I learned something new again

cheers,
M

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Toddy]

No, it's fixed so that the tip can be used to dig out eyes and the like. It takes of a very, very thin peeling. Good for apples too if you keep it sharp.
The wooden handle, wrapped with string floats handle end up in a basin or bucket of water….so it doesn't end up like the paring knife and dumped into the compost bin with the peelings

I'm not fond of the rocking ones, I can't get long peels with them, or slivers for crisps, or salads from carrots and radishes .

M

 

[snappingturtle]

Just think about how an officer is going to read you if stopped, with a knife in a pack and you looking like your off to the woods your jacket, boot etc will be of a type best for being out and about in woodland and your knife is carried in a discreet manner, now think of the same situation but a knife on your belt, why would you need it there with such easy of access? and on display, feels more suspicious doesn't it?

 

[sunndog]

of course it doesnt lol
what could be less suspicious than displaying your intentions openly.....in this case (lest we forget) its crossing a road

 

[Toddy]

I miss the simplicity of the days when someone with a rucksack and a knife on their belt was openly seen to just be 'going camping'.

But, and it's a big but, the world moves on, and it's only very recently that the knife violence has slowed down and is apparently going down in this area, which used to be called the Murder Capital of Europe…..and it's actually a nice area, just there's a sub culture of youths with knives.
The same isn't true for other areas though.
Front page of the Guardian (just for an example)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/knifecrime

There are obviously issues in our society, and ones that we aren't addressing to effective reduction. I don't know the answer, but I don't envy the Police their job, I really don't.

That said, knife crime is one thing, hasty use in anger kind of murderous stupidity, but what kind of sick and
warped mind deliberately sets out to buy acid and then work out how to carry it, how to use it, and to maim someone so horribly for the rest of their lives ?
Now that's evil.

A friend who works with long term prisoners in an attempt to re-socialise them before release, commented a few years ago that he thinks that long term sentences will rapidly become economically unviable for most crimes, but since our society no longer uses either physical chastisement (the birch, etc.,) and no long accepts capital punishment as having any place in our justice system, that there is nothing to counteract the 'I can do what I want' mentality of those with no moral compass.

Heavy thoughts.

M

 

[Corso]

"having it on show gives the police the legal right to harass you"

And when its established that no law has been broken or crime been commited everyone can happily go about their day. Plus that police officer get to have some contact with a good citizen using a tool in the correct manner. shedding some positive light on knife use. The next person that officer stops while crossing a country road with a knife at their belt might only be there half as long. Or the officer will use the experience gained from last time to make a judgment and not even stop the fella....just two upstanding citizens passing each other with a cheery wave. Imagine that!


Educate, expose, desensitize

maybe my life in London has jaded me but from my experience the police aren't there to be schooled or corrected they are there to round you up and let someone else sort it out, my advice will always be don't make yourself a target either by behaviour or casual observation

 

[snappingturtle]

of course it doesnt lol
what could be less suspicious than displaying your intentions openly.....in this case (lest we forget) its crossing a road

Easy of access to a potential weapon vs less easy of access, more passive intent, no?

 

[Corso]

Easy of access to a potential weapon vs less easy of access, more passive intent, no?

If they cannot see a knife they wouldn't even have legal justification to search you

 

[Laurentius]

I miss the simplicity of the days when someone with a rucksack and a knife on their belt was openly seen to just be 'going camping'.


M

I miss those days too, and am glad to have been of the number who were able to enjoy that privelege. Mind you in these latter days I did have to walk through my Council Estate with a scythe over my shoulder like the grim reaper as it is not a thing you can readily conceal. However I did cover the blade with cardboard and duct tape first. Woe betide any copper or PCSO who might have interupted my progress, I would have sung them "One man went to mow" ad infinitum

 

[sunndog]

Easy of access to a potential weapon vs less easy of access, more passive intent, no?

You asked if it seemed more suspicious....it does not

*edit
See this is the thing too. To me a knife really is no more a potential weapon than literally anything else you can imagine stabbing/hitting someone with
I'v carried a knife daily since i was very young, including throughout my schooling. To me its like putting my boots on in the morning.....which are almost always steel toecapped and a more easily deployed weapon than my knife lol

 

[sunndog]

maybe my life in London has jaded me but from my experience the police aren't there to be schooled or corrected they are there to round you up and let someone else sort it out, my advice will always be don't make yourself a target either by behaviour or casual observation

Aye deffo different outlooks on the issue. I'm a farmer and live in the country
Would i carry a sheath knife on my belt in london? Hell no, of course i wouldn't. Around here though i do most days and i'll be damned if i'm gonna take it off to cross a road only to put it back on again the other side lol