Question regarding knife carry

[Brynglas]

I think that this subject is well worth our attention in the bushcraft and outdoors community. Crime involving knives is undoubtedly a problem accross the UK, bothnin rural and urban areas. As responsible knife users it's imperative that we engage in the conversation and try to educate about the safe use of knives and try to balance any negative blamket perception of knife use and ownership.

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[juliojordio1983]

Lets be honest, most crimes committed with knives, are nothing like the knives that you and I would carry to a camp/wood site. I would like to think that common sense would tell the Officer immediately that this is being used as a tool, not a weapon. Whenever I see the news showing what knives were being carried by criminals/terrorists, I never see a Bushy model knife, its always cheap kitchen knives, which are ten a penny and easily come by. Your average crim isn't going to be lugging a £300 plus custom knife about is he....

 

[sunndog]

A lad of 16 walking from his parent's house over a public road over to his parent's woodlsnd.
That is the situation we are asked about. Nothing else. Would a Police stop him and question him, possibly take him to the station if he/she was not happy with the lad's explanation?

And yes, these laws are invented on a whim. On false assumptions that the criminals will follow it.

As everybody knows, the criminals will not follow the law. Knife related crime will still go up.

Did the handgun ban lessen gun crime? I do not think so. For a start, how much crime was done with a legal handgun?

I only lived in UK after the gun ban was implemented, but I know that in Sweden we do not have any crime commited with a legal one. Illegal - yes.

What is the next step, banning all knives which are not for domestic or professional use? If this new law will happen, the step for a such ban is small.

You write that "most people in the bushcraft community are highly responsible knife users". Are you implying some are irresponsible, maybe even criminals?

I would say ALL are responsible users unless there is proof for the opposite!

This, absolutely, it could not be more correct imo

The lad is doing nothing wrong and breaking no laws. Let the public see knives (and rifles for that matter) in its proper usage and they might not be so quick to waste police time or spend their lives in fear

When i was his age and younger i used to walk ot cycle to my shoots (2 or 4 miles) with a cased air rifle over my back and a knife on my belt multiple times a week for years. Including stopping off at the newsagent for supplies (sweets lol) on the way home i'd do the same loaded down with game and no-one ever batted an eye except to ask me how the shooting went or what kind of rifle i had

Wouldn't we all love a return to those days?......get this though, i'm only 35 years old! My story isnt going back to the 1950's or anything this disgusting climate of fear is very new probably kicked in earnest during the idiocy of the 1997 knife law changes. Plebs walking into shops and telling the owner the kitchen knives for sale are banned, old dears handing bloody potato peelers in at amnesty boxes!

Why in the name of sweet zombie jeebus would anyone feel the need to hide the fact they are NOT breaking the law!?

 

[mrcharly]

To the original poster, please note that Janne does not live in the UK (and has a flea in his ear about the laws in the UK).

Pack your knife in your bag. It isn't just about trying to 'sneak' the knife to woodland without being seen, it is also about 'behaving sensibly'. You are transporting a tool to somewhere to use it. While transporting it, you have no need to have it on your belt.

Yes, it is 'only over the road'. However that is still transporting it via a public place. It is a really good idea to instil in yourself habits like this.

The same applies when driving a car - always put on a seatbelt, even if you are only moving the car 10ft down the road to repark it. Safety and compliance with the law is one reason, good habits are another.

 

[juliojordio1983]

This, absolutely, it could not be more correct imo

The lad is doing nothing wrong and breaking no laws. Let the public see knives (and rifles for that matter) in its proper usage and they might not be so quick to waste police time or spend their lives in fear

When i was his age and younger i used to walk ot cycle to my shoots (2 or 4 miles) with a cased air rifle over my back and a knife on my belt multiple times a week for years. Including stopping off at the newsagent for supplies (sweets lol) on the way home i'd do the same loaded down with game and no-one ever batted an eye except to ask me how the shooting went or what kind of rifle i had

Wouldn't we all love a return to those days?......get this though, i'm only 35 years old! My story isnt going back to the 1950's or anything this disgusting climate of fear is very new probably kicked in earnest during the idiocy of the 1997 knife law changes. Plebs walking into shops and telling the owner the kitchen knives for sale are banned, old dears handing bloody potato peelers in at amnesty boxes!Why in the name of sweet zombie jeebus would anyone feel the need to hide the fact they are NOT breaking the law!?

I'm 34 and I can agree with every word about how things have changed.

 

[sunndog]

The same applies when driving a car - always put on a seatbelt, even if you are only moving the car 10ft down the road to repark it. Safety and compliance with the law is one reason, good habits are another.

A terrible example since driving 10ft down the road without a seatbelt is breaking the law and proper use of a knife is not

 

[Corso]

Terrible advice.

indeed

totally agree

 

[Old Bones]

If a Police Oficer saw a lad carrying a knife in public, he may well stop him and question him. Depending on whether the officer was satisfied that any explanation provided for the carrying of a bladed article was reasonable under the circumstances the lad may be allowed to carry on his way.

Alternatively, if the explanation is not considered reasonable under the circumstances, the knife may be seized for destruction, the lad reported for summons, or even arrested.

Excellent advice. The idea that you should carry a knife openly just because you think the law is silly is the sort of attitude that gets people in the cells. I keep seeing those TV shows where stupid people decide to argue/be aggressive with police officers for no other reason than they are stupid/drunk, and we rightly think 'thats dumb'. So's such an attitude to carrying knives/guns - its just unnecessary.

 

[Janne]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To the original poster, please note that Janne does not live in the UK (and has a flea in his ear about the laws in the UK).

Pack your knife in your bag. It isn't just about trying to 'sneak' the knife to woodland without being seen, it is also about 'behaving sensibly'. You are transporting a tool to somewhere to use it. While transporting it, you have no need to have it on your belt.

Yes, it is 'only over the road'. However that is still transporting it via a public place. It is a really good idea to instil in yourself habits like this.

The same applies when driving a car - always put on a seatbelt, even if you are only moving the car 10ft down the road to repark it. Safety and compliance with the law is one reason, good habits are another.

 

[Corso]

I assume your wife will be on hand when the officer who stops the lad decides he doesn't like his 'good reason' and nicks him or when the desk sergeant or CPS agrees and he's then up against the magistrate?

All of which could happen 'good reason' or not. Like it or not a lot of British law it isn't clear cut and with times as they are its better to avoid potential confrontation.

We are free, honest, law abiding citizens that deserve to be treated as such, not as criminals or potential criminals.

and if you believe that you are dreaming

 

[juliojordio1983]

I assume your wife will be on hand when the officer who stops the lad decides he doesn't like his 'good reason' and nicks him or when the desk sergeant or CPS agrees and he's then up against the magistrate?

All of which could happen 'good reason' or not. Like it or not a lot of British law it isn't clear cut and with times as they are its better to avoid potential confrontation.



and if you believe that you are dreaming

I believe he is entitled to believe that if you live a decent life, you should be treated as a decent person.

Its a shame that that isn't the case, but its not wrong of Janne to feel that way Corso.

 

[sunndog]

If crossing a country road isnt 'reasonable' then my dictionary is broken

This is hiding under the blanket hoping the monster rattling the windows downstairs will go away.....except this monster isnt a product of childish imagination, no this one will only get more bold the longer you hide away
its attitudes like these that mean i cannot own handguns or semi auto center fire rifles. That is a liberty forever denied to me by the apathy of those who came before
They 'went with the flow' and it flowed away!

Don't worry lads i and people like me will stand as a bastion for your childrens rights........lets hope theres enough of us this time

We live in an eviroment of knife fear. Yes this is true
The cure for an irrational fear is education, exposure, and desensitization

These laws are supposed to protect the good citizenry. Lets use them to the good of everyone.
As an adult i can decide when it is reasonable for me to carry a knife, if i'm un-sure then its probably un-reasonable and i can take steps to remain within the law
Police use that same logic. If a copper decided to drag the poor O.P here down the station then its a fine opportunity to educate the officer and improve his future dealings with the law abiding public.....educate, expose, and desensitize

 

[Corso]

I believe he is entitled to believe that if you live a decent life, you should be treated as a decent person.

Its a shame that that isn't the case, but its not wrong of Janne to feel that way Corso.

He can believe/feel what he likes but its wrong to offer flawed advice based on that belief. The law is not simple - its designed deliberately that way and I'd have thought someone married to a lawyer would know that?

A massive proportion of law as it is applied is about context. its not pass or fail its about circumstance and situation.

 

[Janne]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Toddy]

….if your way takes you on public transport, stop off at a pub, or through a supermarket, and you are openly carrying a knife, then you can expect to be royally shafted.

We don't have a culture of gun crime here, maybe why the ones that led to the handgun ban horrified the country so much. We do have huge issues with knife crime though. Generally it's youth knife crime, but the latest atrocities, in a very urbanised nation, mean that the MP whose warcry, "Carry a knife, go to jail", is no longer an extreme view.

If you have a good reason to carry it, and are doing it with care and forethought, then yes, I too would back you to the hilt (sorry, truly, bad pun there) in defence.
If you're doing it just to be bolshie about it though…yeah, that's a battle we don't need.

M

 

[sunndog]

Rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they atrophy and disappear

 

[Corso]

Yes, Corso, I do believe we live in countries where we have rights. Rights we have been fighting for since the Black Death.

QUOTE]

well then you are truly dreaming - and with our imminent departure fro the EU if the Tories get their way we won't even have any human rights...

The irony is if sensible and carrying a knife in your bag rather than on your belt while transporting it - in what ever circumstances you choose there would be no legal reason for them to stop and search you - having it on show gives the police the legal right to harass you

https://www.gov.uk/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-your-rights

 

[Toddy]

Rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they atrophy and disappear

Thing is though the police are public servants. That means that it's not so much 'rights' and mind that rights come with responsibilities, but that the police serve the public good, and that means everybody, not just a few bushcrafters and general tool using folks.

I am quite firmly in the camp that a reasonable need for a tool at hand ought to supercede any perception of ill doing, or demand for the right to bear sommat sharp and shiny whenever the notion takes one.

If the dispute is already polarising here, where we do use and appreciate tools, heaven help anyone trying to reach agreement nation wide.

M

 

[sunndog]

"having it on show gives the police the legal right to harass you"

And when its established that no law has been broken or crime been commited everyone can happily go about their day. Plus that police officer get to have some contact with a good citizen using a tool in the correct manner. shedding some positive light on knife use. The next person that officer stops while crossing a country road with a knife at their belt might only be there half as long. Or the officer will use the experience gained from last time to make a judgment and not even stop the fella....just two upstanding citizens passing each other with a cheery wave. Imagine that!


Educate, expose, desensitize

 

[sunndog]

Thing is though the police are public servants. That means that it's not so much 'rights' and mind that rights come with responsibilities, but that the police serve the public good, and that means everybody, not just a few bushcrafters and general tool using folks.

I am quite firmly in the camp that a reasonable need for a tool at hand ought to supercede any perception of ill doing, or demand for the right to bear sommat sharp and shiny whenever the notion takes one.

If the dispute is already polarising here, where we do use and appreciate tools, heaven help anyone trying to reach agreement nation wide.

M

Not sure i understand your post there mary sorry

My talk about 'rights' is not aimed at the police they arent the decision makers. The government will reduce our rights at every turn if they think they can get away with it and scalp a vote