Puukko advice

[0000]

Not sure how you, as a maker, can conclude that a soft cutting tool works "perfectly" compared to a hard cutting tool. A soft file will work just as well as a hard one for filing metal, you get scratches and some swarf with both, don't you? Also I don't know how you conclude that the folk reporting that the Wolverine didn't strike sparks as well as knives with full hard blades hadn't tried sharpening the spine. One of the chaps was a one of the first mods here and had the distribution contract with Kellam, other mods had similar experiences and I know they filed the spines.

First of all, the reason you're not sure how, is that I did not conclude that. I didn't say that a soft cutting tool worked perfectly COMPARED to a hard cutting tool. I said that it worked perfectly for throwing sparks when used with a ferro rod. Which it does with no perceptible damage to said steel. It was also to demonstrate the point that if fully annealed steel could do that, then a blade that has been through a heat treatment process would most certainly do that. I've had knives that I've purchased that were lower than the stated hardness on the C scale and too soft for my liking generally, but with a sharp spine they threw sparks perfectly well for lighting tinder. Were they all glorious showers of unstoppable awesomeness? No, but they worked perfectly well on a spectrum of useless to amazing. Your later point about me concluding that everyone that tried that knife didn't sharpen the spine was also incorrect. I did no such thing. I said "perhaps" and suggested a possible and plausible reason.

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[0000]

The Ahti Vaara 95 that RuaridHunter suggested first looks like a lovely knife that would do exactly what you want, for well within your budget. If you are happy with looking after carbon steel, which isn't that bad really, I would go with that and not worry about it at all.

Talking of soft spines, that particular knife does have one but it worked for ferro rods. However I wouldn't expect great results if you wanted to do any Dave Canterbury type, tip down flint striking.

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[0000]

The Ahti Vaara 95 that RuaridHunter suggested first looks like a lovely knife that would do exactly what you want, for well within your budget. If you are happy with looking after carbon steel, which isn't that bad really, I would go with that and not worry about it at all.


12c27 is good, easy to sharpen, fairly stain resistant. It is what is used in all the stainless Mora knives. Used by some of the top custom makers in the country too. I have made a few in it too. No problems.

Strength of the blade behind the edge is more about how thick the edge is left rather than whether the grind runs to the spine or not. While I like flat/convex knives, the market has few options for the style, compared to the Scandi. A fairly high Scandi grind will work for what you need and do general food prep duty well enough too.

Also I completely agree with what you say with regards to edge thickness. My beef with scandi grinds is that if chipped they take much more work to repair that a secondary bevel on another grind. Also if you want your knife to stay looking nice you're going to have a problem with the plunge lines on a scandi. They won't stay nice and "swoopy" for long.

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[TLM]

The apparent sharpness of a blade depends on how sharp it really is and then how acute the angle is. Cutting ability depends what you are cutting then the sharpness and on steels carbide content, size, distribution etc.

In the old times a scandi grind was almost always actually slightly hollow ground. After a few hand sharpening cycles it took the proper shape which right at the edge was flat. As the sharpening continued it became first all flat then usually convex. If a blade was used only for wood working, whittling, it was often sharpened very slightly convex from the start. The actual shape depended on individual preferences. I remember tales that at the start of elk season people sharpened their puukkos with a large wheel to get back the slightly hollow edge which is easier to sharpen fast.

As a Finn I prefer the grinds traditionally used on puukko. A large part of it probably is that I have learned to use and sharpen it. I can easily see other options on knives that are not intended to be puukkos.

All in, personally I would look for the material, shape and size of blade and how well the handle fits and feels more that the sharpening. Unless it is really weird.

 

[Paulm]

I'm lucky enough to have a fair few knives of different types to choose from when I got out to the woods or camping, and I'm usually outdoors doing stuff several days a week. My go to knife for some time has been the Ahti Vaarta 95 mentioned before. What I like about it is that it handles nicely for me, keeps a razor sharp edge, looks nice, and is very light to have on your belt all day. I've used it for light battoning on a good few occasions on smaller sized wood and had no issues to date. I haven't bothered to square the spine off as I like the black forge finish on the blade and always have a small and very efficient striker attached to my ferro rod anyway.

Just for a change now and again I take one of the Varusteleka puukkos which is a very good and sturdy tool and could be abused as much as you like without problems I expect, but it is several times the weight of the Ahti and I notice it on my belt. Similarly with the spyderco bushcrafter, fallkniven S1, and a few others, more sturdy knives but bigger and heavier than I need most of the time.

Enzo make some nice, smaller knives, and blades to handle yourself, that are worth a look too just to give some other ideas.

 

[0000]

The apparent sharpness of a blade depends on how sharp it really is and then how acute the angle is. Cutting ability depends what you are cutting then the sharpness and on steels carbide content, size, distribution etc.

In the old times a scandi grind was almost always actually slightly hollow ground. After a few hand sharpening cycles it took the proper shape which right at the edge was flat. As the sharpening continued it became first all flat then usually convex. If a blade was used only for wood working, whittling, it was often sharpened very slightly convex from the start. The actual shape depended on individual preferences. I remember tales that at the start of elk season people sharpened their puukkos with a large wheel to get back the slightly hollow edge which is easier to sharpen fast.

As a Finn I prefer the grinds traditionally used on puukko. A large part of it probably is that I have learned to use and sharpen it. I can easily see other options on knives that are not intended to be puukkos.

All in, personally I would look for the material, shape and size of blade and how well the handle fits and feels more that the sharpening. Unless it is really weird.

That's interesting about the slightly hollow grind I didn't know that.

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[Stew]

The apparent sharpness of a blade depends on how sharp it really is and then how acute the angle is. Cutting ability depends what you are cutting then the sharpness and on steels carbide content, size, distribution etc.

In the old times a scandi grind was almost always actually slightly hollow ground. After a few hand sharpening cycles it took the proper shape which right at the edge was flat. As the sharpening continued it became first all flat then usually convex. If a blade was used only for wood working, whittling, it was often sharpened very slightly convex from the start. The actual shape depended on individual preferences. I remember tales that at the start of elk season people sharpened their puukkos with a large wheel to get back the slightly hollow edge which is easier to sharpen fast.

As a Finn I prefer the grinds traditionally used on puukko. A large part of it probably is that I have learned to use and sharpen it. I can easily see other options on knives that are not intended to be puukkos.

All in, personally I would look for the material, shape and size of blade and how well the handle fits and feels more that the sharpening. Unless it is really weird.

So my understanding (from some Norwegian bladesmiths) going back some years is that all the knives had a hollow scandi grind put on - made because of using a round stone to grind. This was then sharpened on a flat stone, as you say, which made it quicker to sharpen as there was the edge and heel of the bevel in contact with the stone only. When the bevel then became flat, it would be reground to a hollow and the process repeated. The idea of a 'true' scandi grind being flat bevels was something that was somewhat scorned by them when mentioned.

 

[0000]

So my understanding (from some Norwegian bladesmiths) going back some years is that all the knives had a hollow scandi grind put on - made because of using a round stone to grind. This was then sharpened on a flat stone, as you say, which made it quicker to sharpen as there was the edge and heel of the bevel in contact with the stone only. When the bevel then became flat, it would be reground to a hollow and the process repeated. The idea of a 'true' scandi grind being flat bevels was something that was somewhat scorned by them when mentioned.

Huh. That's really interesting. I've only known them as you say, to be flat zero grinds. What you're saying makes sense. I've never thought of sharpening a hollow grind as I would a scandi. Cheers!

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[Janne]

The way we sharpened the affordable knives( made in Mora) was to make an edge with a slightly larger angle. A secondary bevel you call it?
To keep the original factory angle took forever to sharpen and was (is) very difficult. Various methods and sharpening mediums were used, depending where you were.
Out goal was to get a decent usable edge for what we used it for.


Today, those knives are so affordable in Scandinavia that many workmen do not even sharpen them, they just throw away the blunt one and take a new one.
Several brands, many are Asian (copies?, ripoffs?) of Morakniv.
Even Moras are cheap though. Under UKP 10 in my favourite local Builders Store. The Asian made copies are a couple of quid cheaper.

 

[Stew]

Huh. That's really interesting. I've only known them as you say, to be flat zero grinds. What you're saying makes sense. I've never thought of sharpening a hollow grind as I would a scandi. Cheers!

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Hopefully this shows it well enough - a real scandi grind!

Part sharpened so starting to flatten. I think this shows why folk want it pre flattened as it's not the prettiest look in this state.

 

[0000]

Hopefully this shows it well enough - a real scandi grind!

Part sharpened so starting to flatten. I think this shows why folk want it pre flattened as it's not the prettiest look in this state.

Yes it does cheers! I'd never heard of that before. I'd maybe have called it a hollow scandi or something! Yeah I can see that the centre of the bevel isn't being touched by your flat stone. Very cool my man! Also, nice ring!

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[MartiniDave]

One of my personal favourite "user" knives is my Helle Eggen. In over 17 years of use, I've never been able to get a decent spark from a ferro rod using my particular knife. As a result I carry a couple of lighters when using the Eggen.

Dave

 

[Janne]

Maybe you have encountered the dame as those Scandinavian posters I read. The outer S/s cladding is just a little bit too soft for the sparking ability?

A lighter is an all-in-one combo of the firelighting.
Ferrocerium rod ( called 'flint'), a Carbon steel striker ( the wheel) and the tinder ( liquified gas).

Excellent item in an emergency situation.

 

[z_bumbi]

maybe Off Topic, but I have read posts on Scandi sites that a laminated blade can be tricky to get a good consistent sparking with.
Apparently the stainless cladding steel can be a bit soft.
Helle uses laminated blades.

If one finds that problem one can skip the 90 degrees and make it more like a normal knife edge. The 90 degrees puts the contact with the ferrorod at the softest part of the blade, if making a false edge the contact with the ferrorod should be is the hardest part.

 

[Janne]

Brilliant idea, just brilliant!

 

[Nice65]

If one finds that problem one can skip the 90 degrees and make it more like a normal knife edge. The 90 degrees puts the contact with the ferrorod at the softest part of the blade, if making a false edge the contact with the ferrorod should be is the hardest part.

Duncan Chandler (FGYT on here, and owner of Dorset Woodland Blades) used to set the angle on the spine of his bushcraft knives a bit off 90° to give a good edge for striking a ferro rod.

 

[Hootch]

While looking up the various knives suggested here I was browsing the Casström site and saw the Casström Woodsman. Then started reading some reviews, including the one on this site. Although it's not what I set out to look for (a trad scandi puukko) I'm wondering if it might be a more sensible option - it can do all I would want from it (light stick splitting tasks, firesteel-friendly etc) without being too big, AND I like the wood handle, the bog oak especially. It seems to have a good steel and a full scandi grind. And a nice quality leather sheath.
Any users here?
Apart from that some of the knives you've suggested have really piqued my interest - such as the Ahti Vaarta 95 and beyond-my-budget but very, very nice Karesuando knives, which are verging on being works of art. But I think perhaps the Woodsman mentioned above ticks all the boxes, it seems to be a knife to be appropriate for most tasks. As mentioned, I only carry my bacho and can't really justify the weight of an axe for the little splitting jobs I do for my camp stove, so the Woodsman might be kind of perfect. Not 100% decided yet but getting there....

 

[Barney Rubble]

While looking up the various knives suggested here I was browsing the Casström site and saw the Casström Woodsman. Then started reading some reviews, including the one on this site. Although it's not what I set out to look for (a trad scandi puukko) I'm wondering if it might be a more sensible option - it can do all I would want from it (light stick splitting tasks, firesteel-friendly etc) without being too big, AND I like the wood handle, the bog oak especially. It seems to have a good steel and a full scandi grind. And a nice quality leather sheath.
Any users here?
Apart from that some of the knives you've suggested have really piqued my interest - such as the Ahti Vaarta 95 and beyond-my-budget but very, very nice Karesuando knives, which are verging on being works of art. But I think perhaps the Woodsman mentioned above ticks all the boxes, it seems to be a knife to be appropriate for most tasks. As mentioned, I only carry my bacho and can't really justify the weight of an axe for the little splitting jobs I do for my camp stove, so the Woodsman might be kind of perfect. Not 100% decided yet but getting there....

I've had the Casstrom Woodsman for a couple of years now and it has been a very good blade for me. I use it for all sorts from firewood prep: feathersticks and occasional batoning to whittling tent pegs, cooking rigs etc. The quality of the knife and sheath is very good, the blade has a nice scandi grind and at 4mm thick, will happily take a bit of a beating. The spine works fine with a ferro rod too, but I still generally prefer to use a striker (personal preference).

I can't say that I've ever been bothered by the shorter blade length if I'm honest. But then again, I'm not really one to condone using a knife for batoning as I don't really think that's what a knife is designed for (an axe is much better for that!!).

You might also want to check out the bushcraft store and the Ahma Puukko knife that they make and sell. It looks very nice and is a kind of compromise between a traditional finnish Puuko and a full tang modern bushcraft knife.

 

[Tiley]

The Helle Viking looks like a fairly traditional take on a puuko. I might be worth a look. I know nothing about it but the brand seems to be fairly well thought of.

On a slightly pricier front, I have got a puuko made by Mark Jacobs. It's wonderful. It might be worth asking if he's got any more in the pipeline...

 

[Mr Wolf]

Not quite "any" 90deg, if it is soft. The Kellam Wolverine, once very popular with members here, was noted for sub-par performance striking sparks from a ferro rod. Other than that, it is an excellent light knife, good sheath, cuts like a laser, comfortable, not too slippy a handle shape.

I have the Benchmade Puukko 200 and would not recommend to the OP for a number of reasons. I would be hesitant to recommend it to anyone without a lot of qualifiers. It does e...v...e...n...t...u...a...l...l...y take a very nice edge and the steel is nice, but it has a lot of, well, I could call them problems, which some might think is overly critical...so lets say "issues", not least of which, in the UK, is the price. The cost/value isn't good. I have been working on a review too.

What budget are you looking at? I do like hidden tangs, but I agree that a flat or convex edge is more widely useful. The problem is that there are fewer knives in that grind with that tang style, compared to the light Scandis. You would have to try hard to go wrong with any of the Helles though.

Cost?
It's very well priced for 3v imo