Oh dear, I just chopped my leg! (scenario)

[leon-1]

1. Keep calm
2. Put and field dressing on the wound and keep pressure on it (aleays carry a field dressing on you) if you do not have a field dressing put your hand on the wound and keep it under pressure and then use a pice of clot or something that will keep a pressure on the wound.
3. Pick up your cell phone and if you are badly hurt call an ambulance and tell where you are or tell them to meet you on the nearest road or other place wher thy can get to. If the wound is not critical call someone you know and tell them what happend and where you are and what you are going to do (walk back stay the night). The make sure you call back every hour or so just to let them know you are ok.

I am with the viking on this, there was a mention of a field dressing being used, the issue field dressings are designed to be able to open them so that you do not contaminate the surface of the absorbant pad.

There is also a specific way that the dressing is bound onto the limb, you work the binding or bandage around the dressing so that you cover the dressing as well as just above and below the dressing itself, this gives compression over a larger area reducing the the blood flow and reducing the tourniquet effect (one area of compression which is narrow) as well as semi-sealing the edges of the dressing.

In all the dressing (which allows the blood to clot), with the compression provided by the bandageing on the dressing (slowing the blood flow) should do the job, but you can also lie down and elevate the limb above your heart level (rest it on your daysack or a log basically anything that will raise your leg by around 12 to 18 inches).

If it is not arterial, whilst you are down there put on a cup of tea and try to relax, if you smoke have a cigarette, it will help you relax and the tea will help to replace lost fluids and sugars.

If it continues to bleed heavilly get help, use your phone, whistle anything to attract attention to your location, but stay calm.

 

[TheViking]

Hi... :biggthump

I have something to add. In Rambo (think it was no. 2) he opens a bullet and puts the gunpowder in the wound. I've been told that this was wrong. (And hurts like sh*t)

In 24 hours (if you've seen season 3) the young guy takes a hot ironpiece and 'stops the bleeding' by burning the wound in his hand. Everybody should know that it's wrong and yet I haven't seen any 1. aid book who has mentioned this. I'm not a doctor, but burning the wound only makes it worse, in my mind.

 

[MartiniDave]

As someone who has loaded literally thousands of rifle and pistol cartridges I'm telling you there aint no way you'll pull a bullet without at least 2 pairs of pliers. We used special kit for that job, teeth just won't do it. I don't want to think about what might be in the burnt powder either!

Dave

 

[TheViking]

Hi...

In the survival manual made by Garth Hattingh, he explains that if you need tinder, you can open a bullet and take the powder from there... But does this mean that there's no way this is possible without a pair of pliers? (by the way, I think it's a horrible and dangerous way to do it, because gunpowder is a very unstabil substance!) If someone is even going to open a bullet, they must have military experience. :biggthump

 

[leon-1]

The process of placeing a red hot bar onto an open wound is called cauterization, it can be used to seal off what medical people tend to refer to as "open Vessels".

Due to the fact the tool used to do it is sterile (because of the heat) it is not unlikely that it could be used, but I would have thought that the pain from doing it would more than likely make you pass out.

Now you have a burn injury and burns are highly susceptible to infection, on this you would need to talk to a medical proffessional. I know that cauterization is still used in a medical/controlled enviroment, but to what extent is another matter.

And the Rambo films should be taken with a pinch of salt at the best of times, there are far too many effects from primary and secondary projectile injuries to think that this would sort out the problem on its own.

 

[TheViking]

Hi...

As said i'm not a doctor, but you're right. Burning a wound will only give you both a burn and a bleeding wound to deal with. And the burn will tap water from your body and you will also waste precious energy in healing such a big wound again. But I don't know anything about how doctors burn wounds or projectile wounds. No, stick to the good old thumb......... You always have it with you and it can stop a bleeding...! :biggthump

 

[den]

I think it’s worth mentioning how dangerous a tourniquet can be. If not used correctly the whole limb can be lost.
I personally would only use one if the other methods has failed (Direct pressure, pressure points)and the casualty has a good chance dieing if one was not used.
If you are using a one remember to slowly release the tourniquet every 15 minutes so blood can reticulate the limb. I was always told to take it off slowly as a quick rush of blood to the wound could knock the clot off.
I’d go for direct pressure to the wound by whatever means .elevate if this fails apply pressure to the appropriate pressure point until bleeding slows. Stay calm. Get help. Job done.
Cheers
Den

 

[frog71_uk]

When I did my first aid training, I was told that a tourniquet should only be
applied as a very last resort, i.e. very specifically when no one else is around that can go and alert medics for you. If someone else is around, send them and maintain pressure. If not, apply the tourniquet, and importantly write down the time you applied it, and leave this info visible on your "patient" FAO medics. (on a piece of paper pinned to his / her shirt, or in blood on his / her forehead if you have no paper). Then go and get help after covering the person with a blanket, jacket ... and, it may sound daft, but pay good notice to your location so you can give clear indications to the rescue team.

We were told very clearly NEVER EVER to release the tourniquet, as the toxins that accumulate in the limb while the tourniquet is applied have the potential to poison the victim if released in the bloodstream. This means that yes the limb may be lost, the alternative being blood poisoning (death).

Guys, this is what I was taught, I am no expert and never had to put it in practice (thank God). If there are any doctors reading this and I am wrong, please correct me.

In fact, the only advice I would like to give is this: take a first aid course: it's cheap, it's very interesting, and you never know ... they say that a good number of people could be saved each year if people knew the basic of first aid - at least enough to raise alert and keep people alive while the specialists arrive ...

Anyway, enough preaching :roll:
http://www.redcross.org.uk/subsection.asp?id=33838&cachefixer=cf121625709883027

Cheers

 

[ScottC]

Ok let's change the scenario abit

Your deep in the wilderness miles away from civilisation and the same thing happens with the axe.

You have no phone and no other means of getting help, to get out it would take a arduous 3 day hike and seeing as you had an axe imbedded in your leg a few minutes ago that seems pretty impossible, you have not cut an artery but you are losing blood fast

You are in an area surrounded by mossy vegetation which you use as a dressing (your FAK has only small bandages)

At night you get a fever and the next day you realise your wound has been infected.....Dun Dun Duuuuuuunnnn!! :yikes:

What Now????
What would you use instead of moss if it was available??
What kit would you take so you can make sure that such a scenario never arrives??
How would you prevent infection??

 

[leon-1]

The team medics in the armed forces are taught that if a tourniquet is used the subject will almost certainly lose whatever limb it has been used on from somewhere around six inches above the tourniquets application, and that the tourniquet is only to be used as a last resort and that the tourniquet is BANNED in the whole of Western Europe (this last one could be a scare tactic so that it is only used as a last resort).

Once again the medical pro's on here could probably inform better.

 

[Roving Rich]

Now i don't suggest you try this on a major axe wound....
But apparently Yarrow - the little fluffy feathery stuff found growing among grass, is really good for staunching the flow of blood. I have been told that you pick it, chew it up then apply it directly to the wound. It is supposed to slow the flow and help it clot. I haven't tried it yet, but bare it in mind, and try it next time you have a minor cut. I'd like to know how well it works, so any volunteers ):

Rich

 

[Viking]

Ok let's change the scenario abit

Your deep in the wilderness miles away from civilisation and the same thing happens with the axe.

You have no phone and no other means of getting help, to get out it would take a arduous 3 day hike and seeing as you had an axe imbedded in your leg a few minutes ago that seems pretty impossible, you have not cut an artery but you are losing blood fast

You are in an area surrounded by mossy vegetation which you use as a dressing (your FAK has only small bandages)

At night you get a fever and the next day you realise your wound has been infected.....Dun Dun Duuuuuuunnnn!! :yikes:

What Now????
What would you use instead of moss if it was available??
What kit would you take so you can make sure that such a scenario never arrives??
How would you prevent infection??

If you are going to use moss, this has to be dried and cleaned before it can be used. If I would have forgot my first aid I would use a cooton cloth t-shirt or whatever i would have with me and make sure there is a pressure on the wound.
Then you got to analyze the situation. If there is areally deep wound I would check the map for the closest and easiest way to civilisation. If it would be a minor cut and I would be in control of it, I would crawl down in my sleeping bag, drink something warm and get me something to eat and prepare for a long journey the nest day.

I cut my hand with an axe a couple of months back, it was a pretty deep wound and there was a lot of blood, but with a good first aid kit I could handle it all well and then get eat some food and crawl down i my sleeping bag to get some sleep and the nest day I walked back.

Things like this happens when least expect so be well prepared so you don´t have to worry what to do if you would cut yourself.

 

[Adi007]

Once again I'm going to say that prevention is better than cure. Take steps to prevent the injury in the first place but if that didn't work, take steps to prevent infection before it sets in. This includes thorough cleaning of the wound with irrigation of clean water, water with puritabs added or potassium permanganage. If I had antibiotics in my FAK, I would take a dose early, again, just in case (I would take care here and only carry something that I knew I wasn't allergic to or have a reaction to).

Would I stay in the area and await rescue or try to make my way out? Dunno, a lot depends on what I know of the area ... Is it popular? Is it out of the way? How close is civilization? What signalling tools do I have? How do I feel? Does anyone know where I am? How long until I'm declared missing?

Gathering intelligence about the area you are going to go to is vital ... think from many levels and angles. Think about accidents and escape routes. Think about the routes and roads in the area and try to accertain how busy they are. Gather as much info as you can before you are there ... chances are you won't need most of it but if you do you'll make desicions on the ground based on this, which is a lot better than guesses!

 

[leon-1]

Ok let's change the scenario abit

Your deep in the wilderness miles away from civilisation and the same thing happens with the axe.

You have no phone and no other means of getting help, to get out it would take a arduous 3 day hike and seeing as you had an axe imbedded in your leg a few minutes ago that seems pretty impossible, you have not cut an artery but you are losing blood fast

You are in an area surrounded by mossy vegetation which you use as a dressing (your FAK has only small bandages)

What Now????
What would you use instead of moss if it was available??
What kit would you take so you can make sure that such a scenario never arrives??
How would you prevent infection??

Most infections in this part of the world do not take that sort of effect that quickly.

The principles are exactly the same, you need to staunch the blood flow, and clean the area.

It doesn't matter that you are not carrying a field dressing, you say you have small bandages, even a small bandage will normally go around a limb a number of times, is the bandage crepe or open weave, if it is open weave you will have to improvise a sterile pad, the only purpose of the pad is to help staunch the blood flow by allowing it to coagulate (moss will do the job).

Compression and elevation are to be used, most people carry some form of pain killer, do you carry something that is based on Ibuprofen? If you do use it since this is also an anti inflammatory which will reduce inflammation in the wound area.

If when you dressed the wound in the first place you washed it out with water (preferably fresh) or water with a small amount of potassium permanganate in it, you should of sterilised the area of the injury.

Rest, calm and warm fluids for shock, there is a good chance that when you get up in the morning, you will be able to continue your trip.

If you cannot continue did you put in a trace of your route to the local authority (mountain rescue, coastgaurd or wife)? Did you inform people how long it would take? Have you left actions to be carried out in the event that you are not in touch in a certain period of time? Do you carry anything in the way of safety equipment apart from an ill equipped first aid kit?

These are all considerations for planning a route, even if you are only out for 3 days/nights someone should be aware of these things, especially if you are out alone.

 

[JakeR]

panic

 

[Martyn]

Hi... :biggthump

I have something to add. In Rambo (think it was no. 2) he opens a bullet and puts the gunpowder in the wound. I've been told that this was wrong. (And hurts like sh*t)

In 24 hours (if you've seen season 3) the young guy takes a hot ironpiece and 'stops the bleeding' by burning the wound in his hand. Everybody should know that it's wrong and yet I haven't seen any 1. aid book who has mentioned this. I'm not a doctor, but burning the wound only makes it worse, in my mind.

Dont do it!

You'll just make a damned great mess that'll cause you a helluva lot of problems - remember, Rambo is fantasy.

Yes we still use cauterization in hospital, but not searing hot iron bars. The process is called Diathermy, and involves an instrument that looks like a large pair of forceps (tweezers), which are connected to an electrical supply. The tips of the diathermy forceps get very hot. The surgeon makes an incision, then goes along the face of the cut tissue, pinching all the little capilaries that have been sliced open with the Diathermy forceps - a little plume of smoke and the capillary is cauterized shut with no damage to the surrounding tissue. But they dont do this with big vessels, they are either clamped for the duration of the surgery, or re-directed if they are needed to provide a vital supply to something.

 

[TheViking]

Hi...

Yes, i know. :biggthump I would never handle gunpowder without military knowledge, or the like! (Maked a bomb myself once from fireworks powder :shock: Good advice from me: don't do it! Though it's exiting, but it's also unstabil and the size of my bomb was enough to blow of an arm at least)

And here we go: never burn a wound yourself. Only with the necessary equipment and knowledge...! :biggthump

 

[EdS]

Been there see that and got the holes in my trousers - billhook and axe.

bung in some salt - hurts like hell but steralises and stops most of the bleeding. Wipe round the edge with a very small amount of whisky form hip flask (don't want to waste to much) to clean up the blood.

Leave to air dry them super glue it skin back together. Works every time and heals well.

 

[ScottC]

As if by magic whilst I was out trying to make a deadfall in my garden i cut my thumb on my axe, it's not serious but thanks to my FAK that I had close to hand i was able to quickly treat it and stop the bleeding quite fast aswell as guarding it against infection as even the smallest of cuts can get infected and cause major problems. However if that's the way the fates want to play it then heres another scenario

A young woodsman nicks his finger whilst using his axe and using his vast medical knowledge treats it quickly and efficiently. Because of his close shave that could have been far worse he is extra careful around knives and axes and NEVER has an accident involving any sharp implements again. :super: ):

Oh yeah and he becomes filthy rich and very popular with the ladies!
(bit carried away there)

 

[den]

super glue it skin back together. Works every time and heals well.

Ah good old super glue. I’ve used it myself before on small cuts, works a treat. I’ve also glued a tooth back together in the field for six months. I wouldn’t recommend anyone else try this. I did mention this to the dentist who laughed and didn’t appear to have a problem with it.
Cheers
Den