No water = No food?

[Joff]

I was mooching through the Discovery Channel website and found an 'Ask the survival expert' page. One question caught my eye:

"Hi, my question is, if you don't have water, should you still eat?"

The answer was (somewhat abridged):

"Your body does require water for the digestion process. With few exceptions, most foods do not contain enough water to sustain your body without supplemental water sources. Therefore, you must drink water to live. Any intake of food without water will require that water be drawn from the cells of your already dehydrated body, thus compounding your problem. The rule is NO WATER = NO FOOD. "

I'm interested in what people think of this. Biologically it is a correct statement. However, is it better to have some energy from food to help you keep going in order to find water or better to not eat until you find water? Like most things it probably depends on the exact circumstances.

Look forward to any thought people have on this!

Joff

 

[Goose]

The simple quick answer is, you will die of dehydration a LOT faster than you will through starvation. Digestion speeds dehydration, so if you eat(especially proteins, I believe) you will dehydrate faster therefore you will die faster.


If you don't eat for around three days your digestive system shuts down, you will stop feeling hungry and you will use less calories, digestion uses a lot of calories.This applies to a normal healthy UNINJURED person, if you have injuries your body deals with the injury and doesn't enter starvation mode. This starvation mode keeps you alive longer, if you eat a little(as in not enough) you can actually die of starvation quicker than if you don't eat at all. The general thing is 3or 4 minutes without air, 3or 4 days without water and 3 or 4 weeks without food. I don't think this is exact, lots of people have lasted more than 4 weeks without food, but it gives an idea of scale and it will vary according to environment. But if I was in a situation that was dire enough that I didn't have water I wouldn't eat, I would last a little longer, I hope!

 

[spamel]

Goose, you forgot, 3-4 months without a bit!!

 

[Goose]

Goose, you forgot, 3-4 months without a bit!!

Not got long left then ! Spend too much time on here

 

[spamel]

Don't we all!!

 

[Glen]

Goose, you forgot, 3-4 months without a bit!!

Checks calander :
Checks toolbox :
Mild panic and visits Screwfix.com

Hadn't previously realised drills were so important

 

[gregorach]

Hmmm, that's an interesting one... While it does require water to digest food, you also gain water from metabolising food. I believe you typically get about 80% of your water from the food you eat.

I guess a lot would depend on what sort of food it was - I wouldn't much fancy a packet of cream crackers or a big chunk of Madeira cake...

 

[Ogri the trog]

The font of all Bushy knowledge (Stuart, I believe), wrote a piece on this very subject in the first two issues of the BCUK magazine. Exceptionally well written and very informative with reasons behind each point. I tend to believe his word of - if you cant get sufficient food to replace the energy spent in procuring it and several hundred calories on top of that, stick to water only.

Ogri the trog

 

[dommyracer]

if you cant get sufficient food to replace the energy spent in procuring it and several hundred calories on top of that, stick to water only.

That's a reasonably fair thing to say.

My only counter to that would be that its not always obviously apparent how much energy you're using, or what the calorific value of a foodstuff is.

Also, eating food can have positive effects even if it is not energy efficent - effect on morale as an example.

 

[william#]

and this is likely to happen where?
oh in the desert
yeh there all the time will watch out for that one

 

[Big Geordie]

That's a good one William. But it has been on my mind for a while now. I'm spending several weeks a month in the desert in Nevada at the moment and water is always at the forefront of my planning.

Now here's a question for you. I read that large carnivores dont visit waterholes very often because they obtain a large proportion of their water from the raw meat they eat. So if I eat the local groundsquirrels or coyote raw... how much raw meat would I have to eat? And would that offset the " dont eat till you can drink problem"?

What bugs/ parasites am I likely to pick up by eating raw instead of cooked?

Great thread this, please come up with a response.
George

 

[Goose]

That's a good one William. But it has been on my mind for a while now. I'm spending several weeks a month in the desert in Nevada at the moment and water is always at the forefront of my planning.

Now here's a question for you. I read that large carnivores dont visit waterholes very often because they obtain a large proportion of their water from the raw meat they eat. So if I eat the local groundsquirrels or coyote raw... how much raw meat would I have to eat? And would that offset the " dont eat till you can drink problem"?

What bugs/ parasites am I likely to pick up by eating raw instead of cooked?

Great thread this, please come up with a response.
George

You will pick up some fluids from food but the digestion of the food will use a lot more water than it gives you. Desert animals are adapted to live in the desert, we aren't. I am not aware of a large carnivore that gets its fluid from food, there are some smaller creatures that almost never drink but don't think the larger creatures would get away with it.

 

[Chris-N]

My understanding is that the carnivores have more effecient (waterwise) ways of digesting food.

The majority of energy that we get comes from carbohydrates or starches that contain glucose structures. To get the glucose structure off the carbohydrate a water molecule must be used so that and individual glucose ring is available for energy production. Since pure glucose doesn't occur often naturally that I know of, no water means no food.

Also pure protein, say from rabbits will do you no good for energy,it only gives you a full stomach. For energy, eat the fat and offal of the animal. When ever you see a documentary on lions for example, the first part they go for is the stomach.

So, do not eat if you don't have water, and if you make a kill, go for the bone marrow, the brain, the liver etc before you fill up on a nice juicy steak lol

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

Respiration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiration_(physiology)

Stalkers feed their dogs the guts of a stag when they get to it.

Beef tea, used to be given to folk as a recovery drink in hospital, tripe etc.

Nick

 

[william#]

That's a good one William. But it has been on my mind for a while now. I'm spending several weeks a month in the desert in Nevada at the moment and water is always at the forefront of my planning.

Now here's a question for you. I read that large carnivores dont visit waterholes very often because they obtain a large proportion of their water from the raw meat they eat. So if I eat the local groundsquirrels or coyote raw... how much raw meat would I have to eat? And would that offset the " dont eat till you can drink problem"?

What bugs/ parasites am I likely to pick up by eating raw instead of cooked?

Great thread this, please come up with a response.
George

eek fgs cook it and go to water holes fill up take partner with rifle!

 

[Big Geordie]

Thanks guys thats great advice.

You too William a partner with extra kit/rifle sounds good. Problem here is that they all take their trucks camping. Totally full of excess gear, and they have been known to laugh at our (genuine ) dpm. They have so many current styles of photo made dpms and bdus its mind boggling. Its also amusing when several go out with different contrasting styles. Bit like your remark elsewhere about the red anoraks.

Think Im homesick, It snowed here last week, now the temps in 80s!
See you soon round a campfire,
George

 

[edispilff]

Water is #1... Food #2
How you choose to use it and expend it is the absolutely most important thing. Coyote and/or Fox live in almost every region on the planet. They adapt in the same way we adapt. The only difference is, tey are not subject to societal laws in the same manner as we are.
We can drink 24 hrs. a day.. but only (legally) hunt during the day.
99% of the animals living in desert regions hunt at night.
Why because it's cooler at night, and there are those other 98% of hunting creatures doing the same thing.... Looking for food and water.
A breakdown from personal observation:
*Carnivores/Predators Drink less water than vegetarians. Why? This is an interesting debate. Vegetable matter has a higher amount of moisture content than flesh (i.e.90% vs. 70%). An average butcher cow will consume in excess of 6 gallons/15 ltr. of water per ton of body weight while a carnivore of proportionate size would consume less than half of that amount during the same period. There are always going to be special variables and exceptions to this observation.
*Vegetarians sleep during the evening and forage during the morning and pre-evening hours. Predators Sleep during the day and hunt during the evening.
Yes, when a component system within the great physiology of the human is unused, it reduces the use by redirecting energy to different systems (heh, in simple terms, the more you use it the bigger it gets).
Your body is at least 70% water. a 5% drop in hydration levels can cause severe fatigue, brain damage, cell shutdown, and host of other problems.
Some interesting numbers:
- the average person exhales (insensible perspiration) 1 pint of water vapor during a normal 8 hrs. of sleep.
- You actually perspire more when the humidity is below 70% outside than when it is higher.
- do not drink urine. it has no nutrition and will only dehydrate the body to a greater level. instead, rub it on your body, starting with the areas which show the greatest concentration of arteries (i.e. armpits, backs of legs, underside of arms, head and neck).
- very small animals can provide enough water from food due to their lower body mass.
Ultimately, if you are going to a place where there is no standing, running, or bubbling water, THINK WATER!

aqua vitae
agua vida
akkavit
.. and the phrases go on

edispilff