Night Owls....

[HillBill]

Do we have any?

I'm kinda nocturnal. At least for the last few months. I don't mean i go to bed late, i mean its 4am nearly and im just having my tea.

Couple more hours and i'll feel the need to go to bed. Expect most of you will be just about stirring when i do.

Who else lives in the darker hours? Kinda curious....

If you're so cursed/blessed, how do you fill your time when the rest of the world is asleep?

 

[Toddy]

I'm not so much a night owl as someone who has a wide awake break in the middle of the night

I'll go back to sleep again, but for an hour or so, I'm up, alert, wanting to do something. Thing is though the rest of the household is sound asleep so I try to be as quiet as possible.

 

[TeeDee]

Do we have any?

I'm kinda nocturnal. At least for the last few months. I don't mean i go to bed late, i mean its 4am nearly and im just having my tea.

Couple more hours and i'll feel the need to go to bed. Expect most of you will be just about stirring when i do.

Who else lives in the darker hours? Kinda curious....

If you're so cursed/blessed, how do you fill your time when the rest of the world is asleep?

I did a Night shift rota for 4 years , even after I finished my sleep hygiene and quality was messed up for at least the next two years.
I found if I stayed up longer than midnight my mind would think we were doing the old night shift again and kick in a 2nd wind - tiredness gone and Mr Wide awake once more.

@HillBill - I would suggest you make efforts to address this - to get back to a more conventional sleep pattern. The more you let yourself fall back into strange circadian sleeping patterns the more the body moves away from its natural one.

We are supposed to sleep during the dark hours and be awake during the light ones.
I can suggest a few things if you like but only if you're open to it - In the long run I don't think this strange sleeping pattern will help with your Diabetes management.

 

[William_Montgomery]

I used to at various points, but I find it takes it's toll fairly quickly nowadays, physically and mentally. The mind visits strange places in the small hours, and while that can be interesting and useful, particularly for the creative process, ultimately it doesn't do me any good in other areas of life and my health would suffer for it.

I still value those hours though, but now my time is the very early morning before the masses start to wake up, just me and the dog. Get the chickens sorted, make a cup of tea and see the day in from the start.

 

[Wildgoose]

Pre children I used to stay up late, now I’m shattered by 10pm

When I worked a regular pattern of nights I loved it, driving home past all the people starting their day knowing a warm bed awaits.

 

[HillBill]

I did a Night shift rota for 4 years , even after I finished my sleep hygiene and quality was messed up for at least the next two years.
I found if I stayed up longer than midnight my mind would think we were doing the old night shift again and kick in a 2nd wind - tiredness gone and Mr Wide awake once more.

@HillBill - I would suggest you make efforts to address this - to get back to a more conventional sleep pattern. The more you let yourself fall back into strange circadian sleeping patterns the more the body moves away from its natural one.

We are supposed to sleep during the dark hours and be awake during the light ones.
I can suggest a few things if you like but only if you're open to it - In the long run I don't think this strange sleeping pattern will help with your Diabetes management.

Not really something i can address mate. I've always suffered from delayed sleep phase syndrome, all part and parcel of having ADHD. Having ADHD makes sleep difficult as it is, because the brain refuses to switch off. Plus the medication for it, one of the common side effects is insomnia. So there are 3 reasons as to why it is how it is.

I've tried many many times to have a normal sleep pattern, but i just lay awake, trying to sleep, and it doesnt happen. It gets me very frustrated. I just accept the fact now that i will sleep when i'm tired and that trying to force it doesn't work.

 

[Pattree]

I used to love night shifts. 12 on 12 off Four on Four off. I managed it by running my day as if it were circadian. Go home at 6am. Clean up and have dinner. Do stuff until 10am. Go to bed. Wake up and have breakfast at 5 pm and off to work. I got some funny looks in the Spar buying a four pack and an ice cream at 6.30am. I used to resent being off at weekends when the cycle came round that way because everything was either crowded or shut.

I’ve done an awful lot of ordinary but since retirement I get up at 10am and go to bed at 2am. It means that for half my waking life I won’t be called or visited. The danger I suppose is that I start to relax too soon. At nine pm I still have five hours to do stuff. It helps that I live in a detached house. Running a power drill at one in the morning might annoy neighbours if I had any.

@Toddy
I believe that in the Fifteenth/Sixteenth century people would get up for a couple of hours in the night and do stuff.

Sandy Toksvig refers to “The tyranny of eight hours sleep” that the world is addicted to.

 

[HillBill]

I used to love night shifts. 12 on 12 off Four on Four off. I managed it by running my day as if it were circadian. Go home at 6am. Clean up and have dinner. Do stuff until 10am. Go to bed. Wake up and have breakfast at 5 pm and off to work. I got some funny looks in the Spar buying a four pack and an ice cream at 6.30am. I used to resent being off at weekends when the cycle came round that way because everything was either crowded or shut.

I’ve done an awful lot of ordinary but since retirement I get up at 10am and go to bed at 2am. It means that for half my waking life I won’t be called or visited. The danger I suppose is that I start to relax too soon. At nine pm I still have five hours to do stuff. It helps that I live in a detached house. Running a power drill at one in the morning might annoy neighbours if I had any.

I believe that in the Fifteenth/Sixteenth century people would get up for a couple of hours in the night and do stuff.

Sandy Toksvig refers to “The tyranny of eight hours sleep” that the world is addicted to.

We are naturally biphasic. We used to sleep shorter periods twice in a 24 hour period. It's really only since the industrial revolution and 'work' that we moved to the kind of sleep pattern that we have now.

My mate does the 12 hour shifts, 4 on 4 off routine, though he does 4 nights, 4 off, 4 days and repeat. I would literally hate that.

 

[Toddy]

A long while ago I read up about sleep.....and that our 'cycle' is about an hour and a half. We need to repeat that hour and a half several times in one go to get a sound sleep though. So, four or five hours and then up for a bit and then another three, and it's good

We're all different, at different life stages, different health, different occupations, etc.,

I think make it comfortable, make it good worthwhile sleep, and you'll be fine.

 

[Pattree]

mate does the 12 hour shifts, 4 on 4 off routine, though he does 4 nights, 4 off, 4 days and repeat. I would literally hate that.

Me too in the day! For one thing he is avoiding management by working nights . I have also worked nights as a temp in many factories. I never saw an HR person, an H&S manager or a general manager. Once, I was working an injection moulder at two in the morning when a little old fella in shorts and a scruffy anorak came in and glared at each of us in turn as we worked. He wasn’t a manager - he’s was the owner!

 

[TLM]

Almost anyone in the summer above the arctic circle who is not tied down to the clock is a night owl if we go by the clock. No clear sleep/wake cycle unless one wants to. Once the night returns it is much easier to follow the "normal" routine.

 

[Chris]

I didn’t mind night shifts for a few months in my early 20s, it was quite relaxed and fun and as said above, manager-free.

Don’t think I could do it now, though. I’ve found as I got into my 30s I started needing more regular, good quality sleep and the daylight is definitely beneficial to me.

 

[TeeDee]

I didn’t mind night shifts for a few months in my early 20s, it was quite relaxed and fun and as said above, manager-free.

Don’t think I could do it now, though. I’ve found as I got into my 30s I started needing more regular, good quality sleep and the daylight is definitely beneficial to me.

Yep working Nights has benefits where mostly you don't have to deal with the various BS Of sub-par management and HR "invitations" to join along - but , from a career perspective - if that sort of thing is important to you working Nights can be a career killer. No one I've ever known has gotten promoted from a nights to a daytime position in an updwardly direction.

Nights tends to be , as per the comments we've seen , for people that don't or won't or can't play the game of court politics - which I agree is dog mess.

 

[TeeDee]

A long while ago I read up about sleep.....and that our 'cycle' is about an hour and a half. We need to repeat that hour and a half several times in one go to get a sound sleep though. So, four or five hours and then up for a bit and then another three, and it's good

We're all different, at different life stages, different health, different occupations, etc.,

I think make it comfortable, make it good worthwhile sleep, and you'll be fine.

But wouldn't you agree that for the human species our concept of work has changed drastically in terms of what that means for the requirement for sleep?

A large part of us in the UK ( Myself included ) tend to drive a mouse at a desk for a living - I have Three large monitors to look at ( 3!!!! ) and wonderful retina burning office lighting whilst perched on an ergonomic captains chair that enables me to keep the same bent over , back stretched , abs weak shoulders hunched stress position.

Our bodies must have been mostly used to getting physically tired ( first ) and then mentally tired ( second ) for most of its evolutionary span - today alot ( not all ) of us don't experience that physical stressor that guarantees good sleep and tend to spend time with another monitor ( TV ) or Forum screen.

I'm not surprised many of us are not sleeping well. We seem to put hurdles in the way. ( And not the sort to watch sheep jump over )

Warning over common sitting position that could trigger anxiety and insomnia

Sitting in the wrong position can trigger a range of health issues, so it's important to sort out your bad posture before they kick in

www.express.co.uk

 

[TeeDee]

Not really something i can address mate. I've always suffered from delayed sleep phase syndrome, all part and parcel of having ADHD. Having ADHD makes sleep difficult as it is, because the brain refuses to switch off. Plus the medication for it, one of the common side effects is insomnia. So there are 3 reasons as to why it is how it is.

I've tried many many times to have a normal sleep pattern, but i just lay awake, trying to sleep, and it doesnt happen. It gets me very frustrated. I just accept the fact now that i will sleep when i'm tired and that trying to force it doesn't work.

I don't know too much about ADHD.
And so I do say this respectfully - but I do wonder if people can talk themselves into a situation of repetitious action because they have been provided a term.

I think you've touched on something i can relate to however - as a youngster I did used to lie awake eyes wide open and mind turning waiting for sleep to take me . But like focusing upon something you want only pushes it further away sleep needs to be given an open avenue to take a person - not stand impatiently at the door waiting for it to enter.

 

[Pattree]

While I know that we all need sleep, I find that I can manage on rest if it’s only for a couple of nights. Working in Bangkok i’d land at 5pm (local) with the mind set that it was breakfast time. I’d usually have a sleepless night two or three days into the contract. I found that if I didn’t worry about not sleeping and just enjoyed being warm and comfortable then it’s get through the next day OK.

At home:
Someone once suggested that my skewed day and love of the winter months - for the dark, the low sunlight as well as the temperature - may come from an excess of melatonin. I dunno.

Has anyone heard any science behind the idea that blue (high colour temperature) light brings about insomnia? Not that I’ve noticed this.

 

[TeeDee]

While I know that we all need sleep, I find that I can manage on rest if it’s only for a couple of nights. Working in Bangkok i’d land at 5pm (local) with the mind set that it was breakfast time. I’d usually have a sleepless night two or three days into the contract. I found that if I didn’t worry about not sleeping and just enjoyed being warm and comfortable then it’s get through the next day OK.

At home:
Someone once suggested that my skewed day and love of the winter months - for the dark, the low sunlight as well as the temperature - may come from an excess of melatonin. I dunno.

Has anyone heard any science behind the idea that blue (high colour temperature) light brings about insomnia? Not that I’ve noticed this.

Heard about it - also believe it .

I think avoiding monitors and phones is a good thing a couple of hours before sleep. Or just try not having a phone switched on for days is a good experiment. Try a weekend with it off - then add a day. and again.

Changing out bulbs to red light is supposed to be beneficial. How many of us don't feel better looking at a real fire?

 

[HillBill]

I don't know too much about ADHD.
And so I do say this respectfully - but I do wonder if people can talk themselves into a situation of repetitious action because they have been provided a term.

I think you've touched on something i can relate to however - as a youngster I did used to lie awake eyes wide open and mind turning waiting for sleep to take me . But like focusing upon something you want only pushes it further away sleep needs to be given an open avenue to take a person - not stand impatiently at the door waiting for it to enter.

I was only diagnosed with it 4 months ago. ADHD (neurodivergent) is a very real thing. Someone with ADHD has their entire brain and nervous system wired/structured differently on a physical level to someone who doesn't have it (neurotypical). It's not something people talk themselves into or can snap themselves out of. You are born that way, and will spend your entire life that way. Medication increases the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain and addresses some of the chemical imbalances. Take dopamine for example. People with ADHD have very low to none existent levels of it, but higher levels of dopamine transmission. The medication increases those levels, which increases your ability to focus and concentrate on one thing, rather than it jumping about from one thing to another, (seeking stimulation) which you have no real control over.

 

[Broch]

Although there's nothing new here, I feel it's s good summary of current thinking:

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/sleep

Other articles here:

BBC Science Focus Magazine - Search

www.sciencefocus.com

 

[British Red]

I've tried many many times to have a normal sleep pattern, but i just lay awake, trying to sleep, and it doesnt happen. It gets me very frustrated. I just accept the fact now that i will sleep when i'm tired and that trying to force it doesn't work.

Lying awake trying to sleep is the most frustratingly pointless activity. I am a natural night owl too Mark. I don't think of it as "wrong" just "different".

It's not just that I struggle to sleep, the world at night is wonderful & magical. Being alone in woods at night is a different world. Living on the South Downs I was regularly treated to the whooping Short Eared Owls

We also had Night Jars which would cause weird groups of bobble hatted twitchers to appear photographing our garden. Not one ever had the courtesy to ask incidentally. If they had they (and only the first to ask) would have been invited in.

Fiona & I love to walk in the dark. We are on nodding terms with badgers, foxes, bats and (here) three species of owls.

I've never understood the irrational fear of the dark. The citified desire to block out the night. The dark / night is not unsafe, it's a magical different world with different sounds, sights and occupants. It seems strange to me to block out half of nature.