New Ray Mears knife with marked blade

[JonathanD]

You said you sent them a picture. You should have sent it back. They can’t rectify a problem there and then by looking at a picture. As far as they see it from just an email, Emberleaf missed a glaring visual anomaly during quality control checks, they missed a glaring visual anomaly during quality control checks, and then you missed a glaring visual anomaly after receiving a new item of value and then using it for a while and still not noticing it until afterwards. So you could see why they may dismiss it without examining it in person themselves. And the pattern and angle of the stain in the blade does look consistent with the angle of making feather sticks. Wood can easily put a stain on a blade like that, and it’s not always easy to remove even with fine abrasive compounds or blocks.

The complaint is almost akin to buying a shirt and wearing it out only to find a stain on the front the next morning. You can understand why they may be sceptical. They must get loads of complaints from those people unfamiliar with 01 steel properties along the same vein, and the photographic evidence from that one picture doesnt exactly show a QC issue, but use. And for three separate people, which included yourself to miss quite an obvious stain seems slim To say the least.

It could also have been caused in the post after being in very cold vans and then warm inconsistent temperatures. Being sent in the sheath as they do, a fine layer of corrosion may have formed. This is also not easy to remove as it gets into the fine microscopic tool lines and is very stubborn, even with paste.

I hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction though. If it is a QC issue. It’s appalling.

 

[Stew]

My guess is emberleaf will just grind more steel off….

 

[Coach]

You said you sent them a picture. You should have sent it back. They can’t rectify a problem there and then by looking at a picture. As far as they see it from just an email, Emberleaf missed a glaring visual anomaly during quality control checks, they missed a glaring visual anomaly during quality control checks, and then you missed a glaring visual anomaly after receiving a new item of value and then using it for a while and still not noticing it until afterwards. So you could see why they may dismiss it without examining it in person themselves. And the pattern and angle of the stain in the blade does look consistent with the angle of making feather sticks. Wood can easily put a stain on a blade like that, and it’s not always easy to remove even with fine abrasive compounds or blocks.

The complaint is almost akin to buying a shirt and wearing it out only to find a stain on the front the next morning. You can understand why they may be sceptical. They must get loads of complaints from those people unfamiliar with 01 steel properties along the same vein, and the photographic evidence from that one picture doesnt exactly show a QC issue, but use. And for three separate people, which included yourself to miss quite an obvious stain seems slim To say the least.

I hope it gets sorted to your satisfaction though. If it is a QC issue. It’s appalling.

You are unfairly assuming the marks were caused at Emberleaf - what if it was caused by Woodlore when they wiped the oil off the knife and fitted the wet sheath??
You havent even seen the knife yet you make o.t.t. statements like ' glaring visual anomaly' - in reality it isnt glaring at all until you start to clean the blade, when you're actually positively looking for marks etc. One side of the blade is pristine - which is another reason why I dispute the 'wood stain' theory, if the marks were staining or normal patination from wood processing they would be on both sides of the bevel. As for what I should and shouldnt do is up to me not you.
And I think Woodlore should have responded to my original comments/ photo with a little more concern. No they cant rectify the problem from a photo but they can see that there is a problem whatever its cause and instead of dismissing it actually do something about it as Emberleaf have done - from a photo!

 

[Coach]

My guess is emberleaf will just grind more steel off….

As long as I get it back looking and performing as it should I dont care what they do

 

[JonathanD]

You are unfairly assuming the marks were caused at Emberleaf - what if it was caused by Woodlore when they wiped the oil off the knife and fitted the wet sheath??
You havent even seen the knife yet you make o.t.t. statements like ' glaring visual anomaly' - in reality it isnt glaring at all until you start to clean the blade, when you're actually positively looking for marks etc. One side of the blade is pristine - which is another reason why I dispute the 'wood stain' theory, if the marks were staining or normal patination from wood processing they would be on both sides of the bevel. As for what I should and shouldnt do is up to me not you.
And I think Woodlore should have responded to my original comments/ photo with a little more concern. No they cant rectify the problem from a photo but they can see that there is a problem whatever its cause and instead of dismissing it actually do something about it as Emberleaf have done - from a photo!

I’m not assuming anything, I’m just going off the picture and information you have given us. Your picture shows a glaring visual anomaly. And as you’re not at all happy with it, then you agree. So if you think I’m being OTT with my assessment of the issue, then you can’t blame Woodlore to coming to same conclusion as you yourself have just done. If you think that Woodlore may have caused the damage with a wet sheath then that’s an even stronger case for sending it back to them surely.

I just gave you sound advice based off exerience. I had a knife slightly damaged off Woodlore. They sent me a new one and gave me the old one to keep as well. Their customer service is renowned for being exceptional and generous.

If you don’t like the advice. Then maybe you shouldn’t have asked us to give it.

 

[FerlasDave]

I think you should have sent it back as soon as you noticed something was a miss. Not tied to polish it out yourself, that wouldn’t exactly seem “innocent” to me

 

[Coach]

I think you should have sent it back as soon as you noticed something was a miss. Not tied to polish it out yourself, that wouldn’t exactly seem “innocent” to me

Oh whoops, Ive been caught!!!!
I spend a fortune on a high end knife, take it outside and use it to do what its supposed/made to do. And it marks like no other knife I own/use has ever done but strangely just on one side, curious that eh?
And then just to compound my guilt I unsuccessfully try to clean the marks off the blade to try to avoid the hassle and cost of sending said knife back. Guilty as charged M'lud since of course I really should have made a complete bottom of myself by sending back a dirty knife which any idiot could have polished clean thus giving both Woodlore and Emberleaf a bloody good laugh at my expense. Does that just about sum up your thinking??^

 

[Tiley]

This seems to be getting rather heated and ugly. I think the key to it all is what Coach said: "Emberleaf ... responded immediately asking me to return the knife so that they could identify and correct any problem that might exist." As Woodlore are really only the agents, they probably were not in a position to identify or rectify this anomaly, though their attitude to it - and so their customer service in this instance - is not exemplary by any means.

However, the process of resolving the issue of the discolouration is underway and I, for one, will be interested to hear what Emberleaf say about the stain and how they get rid of it. I hope that they are successful and that you, Coach, are pleased and relieved by the result.

 

[Coach]

I’m not assuming anything, I’m just going off the picture and information you have given us. Your picture shows a glaring visual anomaly. And as you’re not at all happy with it, then you agree. So if you think I’m being OTT with my assessment of the issue, then you can’t blame Woodlore to coming to same conclusion as you yourself have just done. If you think that Woodlore may have caused the damage with a wet sheath then that’s an even stronger case for sending it back to them surely.

I just gave you sound advice based off exerience. I had a knife slightly damaged off Woodlore. They sent me a new one and gave me the old one to keep as well. Their customer service is renowned for being exceptional and generous.

If you don’t like the advice. Then maybe you shouldn’t have asked us to give it.

Advice I dont mind but insinuation is a totally different thing. And what happened to Woodlores vaunted Quality Control when they sent you a damaged knife?? Slipped a bit there eh?
You dont work for Woodlore do you? Because I cant make out why youre so determined to protect them and focus on me. And the Wet sheath business wasnt my idea - It was Emberleafs!, wonder why that was.
And as far as your advice goes you can relax and keep it to yourself from now on. I didnt post on here to be badgered by a woodlore luvvie.

 

[TLM]

It is fairly common when whittling that low alloy steel gets some colouring and usually it is asymmetric so that right handed has more effect on the left side. It is not only oxidizing or rusting, tannins sometimes cause quite fast staining, depending on the wood whittled.

 

[Stew]

As long as I get it back looking and performing as it should I dont care what they do

How will you know it’s not an intrinsic fault with the blade if that’s all they do?

 

[Coach]

How will you know it’s not an intrinsic fault with the blade if that’s all they do?

I will trust to their integrity and desire to protect their professional reputation. They have nothing to gain from sending me back an inadequate product.

 

[Coach]

It is fairly common when whittling that low alloy steel gets some colouring and usually it is asymmetric so that right handed has more effect on the left side. It is not only oxidizing or rusting, tannins sometimes cause quite fast staining, depending on the wood whittled.

Can't be that common, I've never come across that in 50yrs messing about in the woods with my other 01 knives or 30yrs plus as a professional horticulturist and I do look after mine and trainees tools. However I dont see the need for speculation, Im sure Emberleaf will identify the cause and notify me whereupon I will notify you.

 

[FerlasDave]

Oh whoops, Ive been caught!!!!
I spend a fortune on a high end knife, take it outside and use it to do what its supposed/made to do. And it marks like no other knife I own/use has ever done but strangely just on one side, curious that eh?
And then just to compound my guilt I unsuccessfully try to clean the marks off the blade to try to avoid the hassle and cost of sending said knife back. Guilty as charged M'lud since of course I really should have made a complete bottom of myself by sending back a dirty knife which any idiot could have polished clean thus giving both Woodlore and Emberleaf a bloody good laugh at my expense. Does that just about sum up your thinking??^

Steady on there chap! Your beef is with emberleaf not me. I’m just saying that if you have an issue with an item you generally just send it straight back, I’m trying to put the shoe on the other foot and give you an idea of what they might be thinking. No need for such a harsh response, only trying to help.

 

[Coach]

Steady on there chap! Your beef is with emberleaf not me. I’m just saying that if you have an issue with an item you generally just send it straight back, I’m trying to put the shoe on the other foot and give you an idea of what they might be thinking. No need for such a harsh response, only trying to help.

In your own words I didnt "seem innocent" to you, therefore I'm guilty.. of what I'm not entirely sure. I have never sent an item back to anyone in my life, however to maybe help you understand why it wasn't my first reaction in this instance, 6 months ago I had a Very serious health 'event', I am still constantly supervised and havent been out of the house apart from my garden in that time due to the dangers/risks involved. Having to post the knife back to Anyone is going to be a major pain in the bottom and something I would try to avoid at all costs. If all you were doing was trying to help then I thank you but would like to point out that the 'innocent' comment was totally unnecessary and unhelpful and simply got my back up. Apologies if my reaction seemed "harsh" but I think you asked for it.
Coach.

 

[JonathanD]

I have no dog in this fight. And it’s not even a fight. My advice to you in all my posts is advice that benefits you and only you. Not Woodlore or Emberleaf, as I have no allegiance to either. I have taken no sides, just pointed out views all parties may have of each other based upon the evidence and testimony you yourself have shown. And even so, I have still given you the best advice to get the best outcome for YOU.

As I have 30 years plus of dealing with Woodlore both good and bad, it’s good and solid advice.

As I’ve said before and sincerely. I hope you get the outcome that you deserve and makes you happy.

 

[Coach]

I have no dog in this fight. And it’s not even a fight. My advice to you in all my posts is advice that benefits you and only you. Not Woodlore or Emberleaf, as I have no allegiance to either. I have taken no sides, just pointed out views all parties may have of each other based upon the evidence and testimony you yourself have shown. And even so, I have still given you the best advice to get the best outcome for YOU.

As I have 30 years plus of dealing with Woodlore both good and bad, it’s good and solid advice.

As I’ve said before and sincerely. I hope you get the outcome that you deserve and makes you happy.

You will forgive me if I say I find your sincere advice hard to swallow. From your first post you offered the opinion that the problem was caused by patination from use and maintained that stance throughout your posts. You stated the stain was a 'glaring' anomaly and when I told you its wasnt 'glaring' at all you started arguing with me. I told you I had decided to send the knife back to Emberleaf so you offered the opinion that I should do something else - in other words my decision was wrong. And as far as your " slim to say the least" comment - why not just call me a liar to my face?. Or an idiot.
Im too old and too grown up to get into a dog fight so again thanks for the advice but you'll have to excuse me if I decide to ignore it and plough my own furrow.

 

[JonathanD]

The fault is caused by patination, or corrosion. That’s obvious to anyone. If the blade doesn’t have a glaring anomaly, then why are you complaining and sending it back? It does seem to have one to me and that’s in your defence not against it. How it was caused is irrelevant if you didn’t cause it. You may be as much responsible as the other two parties involved as far as anyone can ascertain from your posts, we don’t know you or the history apart from your brief description. I speculated that it could be the postal service as much as you, Woodlore or Emberleaf. And all I suggested was sending it back to Woodlore directly would get you the best result in so far as the best option and overall result for, again YOU, and it is legally your best option based upon the Consumer Rights act. You ignore that and hurl insult and weird accusations that I’m picking on you. Well, I’m sorry I caused you so much distress and made you feel victimised by suggesting things you don’t agree with. But that would get you the best results and a new knife. I know sound advice offends people so much these days. Maybe in future, if you don’t want different opinions from your own. From people experienced in sending faulty things back to Woodlore that have had great results from it - that you dont ask on a public forum, for advice or otherwise don’t get all offended and act like a victim when you do get such advice.

The main thing I find shocking in all of this is Emberleaf pointing a finger at Woodlore for maybe sticking it in a wet sheath. That’s a bit unprofessional from a partnership to send you a speculation like that. I’d like to see how that pans out. And how they came to that conclusion given the uniform pattern of the huge/tiny/mediocre anomaly. I wonder why that was too. Were they actually saying it was you or Woodlore that may have put it in a wet sheath?



You seem to be arguing against your own points and that’s what is confusing me and many others. But I’ll let it go as you seem to have it all sorted as to how you want to go ahead with things. Just don’t hurl abuse at people that want to help you. It’ll make life easier. I’ll leave you to your own furrow and bother you no more.

 

[Coach]

The fault is caused by patination, or corrosion. That’s obvious to anyone. If the blade doesn’t have a glaring anomaly, then why are you complaining and sending it back? It does seem to have one to me and that’s in your defence not against it. How it was caused is irrelevant if you didn’t cause it. You may be as much responsible as the other two parties involved as far as anyone can ascertain from your posts, we don’t know you or the history apart from your brief description. I speculated that it could be the postal service as much as you, Woodlore or Emberleaf. And all I suggested was sending it back to Woodlore directly would get you the best result in so far as the best option and overall result for, again YOU, and it is legally your best option based upon the Consumer Rights act. You ignore that and hurl insult and weird accusations that I’m picking on you. Well, I’m sorry I caused you so much distress and made you feel victimised by suggesting things you don’t agree with. But that would get you the best results and a new knife. I know sound advice offends people so much these days. Maybe in future, if you don’t want different opinions from your own. From people experienced in sending faulty things back to Woodlore that have had great results from it - that you dont ask on a public forum, for advice or otherwise don’t get all offended and act like a victim when you do get such advice.

The main thing I find shocking in all of this is Emberleaf pointing a finger at Woodlore for maybe sticking it in a wet sheath. That’s a bit unprofessional from a partnership to send you a speculation like that. I’d like to see how that pans out. And how they came to that conclusion given the uniform pattern of the huge/tiny/mediocre anomaly. I wonder why that was too. Were they actually saying it was you or Woodlore that may have put it in a wet sheath?

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You seem to be arguing against your own points and that’s what is confusing me and many others. But I’ll let it go as you seem to have it all sorted as to how you want to go ahead with things. Just don’t hurl abuse at people that want to help you. It’ll make life easier. I’ll leave you to your own furrow and bother you no more.

Hurling Abuse?? Hahahahaha

 

[C_Claycomb]

Chaps, this has gone on long enough. I am sorely tempted to lock the thread since it is past time to step away from the keyboards, get a cup of tea and let matters be.

There need be only one more post in this thread, and that is Coach updating when the whole situation has been finally and completely resolved.

Until then, enjoy your teas.

Chris