If you'd had to spend two lockdowns in a two bedroom highrise flat in London, you wouldn't need to ask that question.. Not me, but friends of mine.
New Countryside Code
- Thread starter Broch
- Start date
People who used to walk their dog in a town park, where it was clear they needed to pick up bag up and bin, then go out for recreation in town with friends. This last year those people have set foot in the wider countryside, possibly for the first time, certainly more often and in different ways. They see the countryside as huge after being used to little parks, its full of animals, so why should they worry about their dog? It is pretty understandable.
Agree education is the way, but it is slow.
Agree education is the way, but it is slow.
It is a matter of pedagogic persuasion, a sjambok might work.
I know what you mean, people who know how to behave do it automatically. Those who do not know usually don't want to learn either.
Sorry mate, I do apologise, was having a bit of a rantMod hat on.
Folks, control your language. No swearing. No getting around the swear filters with creative character use. Have edited swearing out of Paul and Allan's posts. If you gotta express these things, that is what this little chap is for........
Paul, I think you mis-read what others have written and reacted in haste and a little too much passion.
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I know what you mean, people who know how to behave do it automatically. Those who do not know usually don't want to learn either.
So, aside from legistlation, how do we tackle this?
Its like general environmental stuff.
REDUCE REUSE AND RECYCLE. That message has been around (in that form) for, what? Fifty years now? Thats two generations?
And yet folk produce more waste than ever.
So, aside from legistlation, how do we tackle this?
Its like general environmental stuff.
REDUCE REUSE AND RECYCLE. That message has been around (in that form) for, what? Fifty years now? Thats two generations?
And yet folk produce more waste than ever.
I think that there is a lack of connection with the environment.
I know when I go for a walk im aware of every sound ,smell and temperature change. I can see where people and dogs have walked even on a stoney path. I hear people before I see them, whereas they never hear me. I often step aside and hide behind bushes when I know a group of people are comming and they walk past me totaly unaware I'm there.
I can tell a fox came by, a short time ago, by smell alone
They never hear, let alone see a buzzard high above us. They shout and chatter, kicking stones from the path, and sometimes I wonder what they are doing out there! They walk like they are in town. I can take 5 hours to cover 3 miles, they take less than an hour. I see every flower, bud, tree, bird and animal. Thats the joy for me, not covering milage.
Some time ago I took a townie friend of mine to a favourite spot where I just sit and watch. She chattered, moved around, and saw nothing except "some trees and grass"
I saw many different birds, tiny flowers, and much more, and watched the sky. I told her it would rain in about ten minutes and she almost called me a witch when it happened right on cue!
If you connect rather than pass through, nature is a different beast altogether.
I know when I go for a walk im aware of every sound ,smell and temperature change. I can see where people and dogs have walked even on a stoney path. I hear people before I see them, whereas they never hear me. I often step aside and hide behind bushes when I know a group of people are comming and they walk past me totaly unaware I'm there.
I can tell a fox came by, a short time ago, by smell alone
They never hear, let alone see a buzzard high above us. They shout and chatter, kicking stones from the path, and sometimes I wonder what they are doing out there! They walk like they are in town. I can take 5 hours to cover 3 miles, they take less than an hour. I see every flower, bud, tree, bird and animal. Thats the joy for me, not covering milage.
Some time ago I took a townie friend of mine to a favourite spot where I just sit and watch. She chattered, moved around, and saw nothing except "some trees and grass"
I saw many different birds, tiny flowers, and much more, and watched the sky. I told her it would rain in about ten minutes and she almost called me a witch when it happened right on cue!
If you connect rather than pass through, nature is a different beast altogether.
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Once you get to know the fox smell you don't forget it.I think that there is a lack of connection with the environment.
I know when I go for a walk im aware of every sound ,smell and temperature change. I can see where people and dogs have walked even on a stoney path. I hear people before I see them, whereas they never hear me. I often step aside and hide behind bushes when I know a group of people are comming and they walk past me totaly unaware I'm there.
I can tell a fox came by, a short time ago, by smell alone
They never hear, let alone see a buzzard high above us. They shout and chatter, kicking stones from the path, and sometimes I wonder what they are doing out there! They walk like they are in town. I can take 5 hours to cover 3 miles, they take less than an hour. I see every flower, bud, tree, bird and animal. Thats the joy for me, not covering milage.
Some time ago I took a townie friend of mine to a favourite spot where I just sit and watch. She chattered, moved around, and saw nothing except "some trees and grass"
I saw many different birds, tiny flowers and watched the sky. I told her it would rain in about ten minutes and she almost called me a witch when it happened right on cue!
If you connect rather than pass through, nature is a different beast altogether.
Every animal has a smell , you just need to train yourself to smell it. I can smell sheep and cows and horses easily from some distance.
Even if a horse passed by a few days ago and left a parcel on the floor, I can smell it before I see it.
Fungi are distinctive too, and I will often smell mushrooms well before I see them.
Fox is defiantly very distinctive and will often linger for many hours after they have passed by.
Llamas are used here for cattle and sheep herd protection. Usually 3 or 4 of them. They can cough up and spit stomach acid. Not even the bears will mess with them.
Just to be clear about dogs in the countryside - the only dog I have seen take a lamb is a trained sheepdog (same dog on two occasions) and the only dog I have seen worry sheep was a golden retriever (I do accept that most dogs will chase sheep instinctively and kill if they get the chance).
In addition, the most dangerous dogs in this area of the countryside are the farm dogs - the sudden popularity of the New Zealand Huntaway not only introduced a more aggressive dog into the fields but one that was bred to bark non stop!
In addition, the most dangerous dogs in this area of the countryside are the farm dogs - the sudden popularity of the New Zealand Huntaway not only introduced a more aggressive dog into the fields but one that was bred to bark non stop!
Going hiking tomorrow morning, my first time up ont moor this year, to have already packed my litter bag, not for my own litter you understand. A popular easy route to expect to be coming back with some pickings. If we all did our bit.
I have long since learned what it is that causes folk to not notice others in environments of which includes towns to describe the hues one wears, the noise one makes and what movement one enters into, to in the wooded environment find just standing still is enough to cause others to be unaware of one's presence, to have fun with it sometimes through the friendly greeting, to see how far folk jump when they suddenly realise they hadn't noticed my presence. My hues of course being green browns and blacks. How I came to understanding how one can hide in plain sight was through my hobby of photography, where the last thing one wants when in that meditative process is another taking time to loiter for whatever purpose and there ruin the mood. And if one does need to move I have found speed of movement factors in that if one moves slowly one tends to remain largely hidden to all but the keenest of eyes. And of course I find my tai chi practice fosters a careful way of moving.
Observed a Badger this night, I just stopped when I saw it, it had noticed me I knew that, but it didn't leg it but hung around watching me for about twenty seconds before turning to dive under the fence.
I have spent many happy hours watching badgers.even once had one walk over my legs.
It was the early days of watching them, and we both freaked out and ran in opposite directions!
I had a great relationship with one I got to know well, and even managed to stroke it, without it freaking out. It was very old and used to take peanuts from my hand.
It was a wonderful time. Sadly the sett is no longer in existence due to the cull, despite trying to protect it.
Such a shame .cubs are a delight to watch.
It was the early days of watching them, and we both freaked out and ran in opposite directions!
I had a great relationship with one I got to know well, and even managed to stroke it, without it freaking out. It was very old and used to take peanuts from my hand.
It was a wonderful time. Sadly the sett is no longer in existence due to the cull, despite trying to protect it.
Such a shame .cubs are a delight to watch.
Let's face it, only those who care & know how to behave will bother to read the code.
And so media aside, if those of us of whom are responsible make efforts to clean up after those who aren't, may it be those that observe might not have cause for complaint for said media to not have a story, well not a bread and butter story at least.
But aside from protecting our own ways through the pointedly cleaning up after the untrained, we should really, if we love our countryside.
And so hike done, ten miles in all half of which was done with a piece of what I discovered was glass stuck in my foot where from I have no idea, but at least removed half way to discover what the irritation was, I was surprised by what I found on the popular route I planed and walked. Very little litter to pick and bring back, a handful of small bits at most. To conclude though less hard places to get to might be different, by and large hikers are a relatively clean lot.
An only irritation in one prehistoric location we stopped to snack at was the finding of bits of orange peel and yeah I know orange peel being vegetable matter will degrade eventually, it doesn't quickly to comprise litter. Added to that I am aware there may be a coating of wax on the orange outer of which will hinder decomposition as supermarkets especially do coat citrus fruits in wax
Hmm...that's a difficult one.
You don't teach your children by letting them create a mess and just humbly cleaning up after them. They learn nothing and just carry on - and YOU end up shouldering the burden.
At the same time, as someone above said, you can't educate those who don't want to be educated.
And neither should we start bandying around words such as 'ban' (again, as someone else observed - we are a group who like to use axes and knives and have conniptions whenever there's talk of limiting the use of such tools).
So what to do?
I really don't know.
Looking aside the flippancy of my previous comment earlier in the thread, I do wonder if we should stop promoting the countryside as a leisure venue.
As I sit here typing, an advert for Go Outdoors has just come on. Looking at all the images in that ad, and all the activities being demonstrated, I notice one thing - the 'outdoors' is treated as just a back drop, a venue, a product to be used.
Therein lies the problem to me.
The countryside is merely a place where I can go for a run, or a ride on my bike, or a picnic with gaudy coloured plastic. It's something to be consumed and used. There's no sense of responsibility to that location, any more than there is if you go to McDonalds - it's just a place I can go to feel good about myself. It's about me, not anything bigger.
It's not about engaging with that living, breathing, organism.
That, it seems to me, is the fundamental flaw.
So, with both flippancy and urgency, my Countryside Code remains, 'Please don't go there.'
The responsible ones will ignore that, and well they should.
But if it's not promoted to the irresponsible then they'll just go and pollute somewhere else.
I agree; but even the professional bushcraft courses teach exploitation of the resources. All countryside leisure activities should start with training in conservation, ecosystems and the environment - if people can't grasp that they shouldn't progress onto the cycling, canoeing, walking, camping, fishing ....
The truth is, for many people, the countryside is a living. Farming is no more than a factory spread out over the land. It produces noise, pollution, and waste. People travelling from towns see that, and see no need to be any more caring. We need the professional user of the countryside to be more responsible and liable - and I don't just mean farmers.
The truth is, for many people, the countryside is a living. Farming is no more than a factory spread out over the land. It produces noise, pollution, and waste. People travelling from towns see that, and see no need to be any more caring. We need the professional user of the countryside to be more responsible and liable - and I don't just mean farmers.
I question the view that those who know don't litter and the ones causing the litter problem simply don't know how to behave in the outdoors so won't. People know about the problems of littering. It's not ignorance of the issue just that they are selfishly not caring about harm they cause. It's someone else's problem. That's part of human nature that responsible outdoors users control. It's a base part of our species based around selfish needs overriding what is really needed.
Education has been going on about this for generations. Why hasn't it worked. It cannot be a case of they do not know better. That idea just gives them a free pass. Don't fall for that trap. Confront when you see it. Us responsible dog owners where I've just moved from confronted the irresponsible ones and got things a lot better on the canal towpath. Until lockdown at least. You can make a difference by confronting bad behaviour. Although you do need the characteristics to do that. Usually a lot of confidence or 6'5" and large frame or both! Not to be tried everywhere you have to judge your safety too.
Education has been going on about this for generations. Why hasn't it worked. It cannot be a case of they do not know better. That idea just gives them a free pass. Don't fall for that trap. Confront when you see it. Us responsible dog owners where I've just moved from confronted the irresponsible ones and got things a lot better on the canal towpath. Until lockdown at least. You can make a difference by confronting bad behaviour. Although you do need the characteristics to do that. Usually a lot of confidence or 6'5" and large frame or both! Not to be tried everywhere you have to judge your safety too.
