New Countryside Code

[Paul_B]

Sorry, a misread post led to my overreaction. It did seem strange that someone on here would be so anti dog as say they shouldn't be there. Total misread!

Having said that there is still a misrepresentation or bias going on through repeated comments over dog poo. Where are the comments about human waste which forms the majority of outdoors waste in the countryside. Dog owners are the minority and those that leave dog poo with or without bags behind are the minority of that minority. I'm not so sure you can say that about human outdoors users. It's more likely to be the majority.

How many times have you reached the top of a nice hill intending to take a break at the summit cairn only to see it shoved full of banana skins and assorted human waste? I've certainly had that issue and usually on a really hot, sweaty and sunny day when that waste is at its most pungent and wasp attracting. Or the human waste in the form of tissue in places right by the path but still discrete enough for the business in hand. We can all in the woods but why leave paper behind and not dig down to do it neither?

Of course wild campers wouldn't do that not proper ones. A well known national boutdoors organisation with one base or more in the lakes I know of wild camps in popular locations and it's always defecation alley up every water course feeding the tarn. Right next to the streams people use to get water from indeed we often see toilet paper in the steam.

As a species we're pretty dank at times.

Oh and what kind of person leaves a full nappy at the outflow of angle tarn with a few cans of baked beans and other waste all in a nice pile by the path? We packed that lot out but my mate got a nice soiled rucksack from the nappy releasing water and....

Countryside code will do nothing for that

 

[Woody girl]

Paul B. Yes I agree, human beings are a dirty lot!
Having been a volunteer ranger on dartmoor in the past, I can tell many stories of human filth left behind. Its a never ending battle.
Most of my time was spent cleaning up dirty nappies and other detritus left behind by .... I'm trying to think of a name for them that would be acceptable here, but I can't!
I'm not so young and mobile nowadays, so I'm limited in where I can go and what I can do, but I do my best, and always have bin liners and poo bags in my bag.
Even if I cannot carry a bin bag full of stuff home to dispose of, I will still bag it up. Food waste always goes home with me, as otherwise other animals will rip open my carefully collected and bagged rubbish. I have a friend who will go and collect it for me, and then it gets dealt with properly.
I know its distasteful and riles sensible and careful people, but I just look upon it as my duty to naturel places that I love.
I do get some satisfaction from coming across a mess, and tidying it back to pristine. Nature is always grateful.even if no one else is!

 

[TLM]

On a like note my son collected a plastic bag full of gold and bears on a Lapland trip a few years ago. (Lapland's gold and Bear are beers. ) It was mostly in the middle of nowhere with no tracks or paths so most probably thrown away by snowmobilers. I still wonder how they got anywhere with that amount of alcohol in them but reindeer herders seems to have a lot of experience in that.

 

[Erbswurst]

I think the Sami learn to ride a snowmobile before they learn to walk, isn't it? Approximately like the Kosaks were born on the back of a step horse.


I guess the bin bag was a collection and accidently did fall off. I can't imagine that they throw their beer cans around on the own land.

 

[Paul_B]

Perhaps there's a good reason to ban drinking alcohol in public places and the outdoors???!!! It seems to me that it's usually groups and/or alcohol drinkers that leave the most mess in the outdoors.

Seriously though, these discussions tend to go the way of "the other group" are the worst discussion. Bikers Vs walkers, walkers Vs dog owners, etc. Truth is the real problem is the same group...humans!! What are we going to do about ourselves????

 

[C_Claycomb]

... What are we going to do about ourselves????

Well, apparently the folk a couple of years ago who reckoned we needed a global pandemic to thin our numbers to save the countryside miscalculated!

 

[Erbswurst]

If I follow the thread here I doubt that the Brits are really idiotic like that.

You surely have here and there somebody who is inexperienced, but they learn it for sure. A few beer cans in the wood aren't the end of the world and if a dog gets attacked by a cow and survives it surely will also become a bit more carefull afterwards...

 

[C_Claycomb]

@Woody girl
Big points to you for your pun. Doggie logs being a pet peeve.

 

[Paul_B]

If I follow the thread here I doubt that the Brits are really idiotic like that.

You surely have here and there somebody who is inexperienced, but they learn it for sure. A few beer cans in the wood aren't the end of the world and if a dog gets attacked by a cow and survives it surely will also become a bit more carefull afterwards...

Idiotic? No just inconsiderate. Yes, they are that. It's not unexperience neither. I'm getting towards the end of my first half century and I remember being taught about littering being a problem at primary school. That's in the period of 5 to 11 years old. Generations have been taught about littering now so there simply isn't the possibility it's lack of experience.

As to a few cans, it could be a few cans one night, a few more the next, then repeat every weekend there's nice weather through summer in the popular places.

Banana skins are throughout the year. It's amazing what the snow melt leaves behind on British mountains (disclaimer - British mountains are really just hills to most other nations but they do have their own difficulties so not exactly safe neither). Popular hill tops often lose their snow which sites up a rotting mess.

Classic bury it in the snow and its not rubbish then. Over the hedge, over the crag, etc are popular throwing away locations. Sticking them in dry stone walls another. Summit cairns, walls, holes in trees, etc. Then there's the large tree just off the footpath toilet. Wee is one thing but faeces and used toilet paper, left on the ground or shoved into a hole or root of a tree.

Then there's the sites like Loch lomond shoreline (now patrolled with people being fined and moved on) or there's a place in the lake district (just reme it then forgot it again as I typed up the loch lomond bit). Ullswater,thirlmere and Coniston have a few lakeside camping spots that can get bad too.

Let's face it there's enough mess being made by pretty much all outdoors users in the UK and its not a lack of knowledge. That's why I think you can put whatever you want into a countryside code but it'll make no real difference.

 

[Woody girl]

If I follow the thread here I doubt that the Brits are really idiotic like that.

You surely have here and there somebody who is inexperienced, but they learn it for sure. A few beer cans in the wood aren't the end of the world and if a dog gets attacked by a cow and survives it surely will also become a bit more carefull afterwards...

If dogs go for cows... its usualy the dog that doesn't survive!
Sadly its the other way round for sheep, and farmers can suffer terrible losses through stress abortion alone, let alone animals actualy killed.
As for shrugging ones shoulders and saying that people will learn... 30 years of working in the countryside myself , shows sadly they do not!
And even if they do, the next lot of youngsters come along making the same problems and on it goes.
Germany and most of Europe have a whole lot more wild space than Britain. We are an overcrowded island, loosing green space to massive new builds daily. New roads and railway lines cutting through ancient woodlands.
Sadly our dear boris seems to think we need to build our way out of brexit and the pandemic. Even less countryside for the people to enjoy.
Just plant a few trees and relocate the animals untill there is nowhere left to plant another housing estate, let alone a tree!

 

[Erbswurst]

There are herd protection dogs that kill everybody and everything that attacks the sheep. They live with the herd and don't bark but bite.
Shepherds should know about it.

 

[Woody girl]

There are herd protection dogs that kill everybody and everything that attacks the sheep. They live with the herd and don't bark but bite.
Shepherds should know about it.

I don't think that would go down well here! Just another problem and relatives sueing the beleaguered farmers for dog attacks on their clueless relatives.
You need to spend some time deep in the English countryside to realy understand .
Not having wolves in Britain I don't think that's an answer.
Just because it works in the wilds of Romania, or elsewhere where there is a sparse population, it just won't work here.

 

[Erbswurst]

In Austria they stopped the project.
Austria lives of tourism and not sheep herds. They don't want German news about that German tourists had been killed by Austrian dogs.

But indeed, in Germany they seem to become more and more common.

Yesterday my brother bought just a little shepherd but thought about getting two large ones too.

He already decided to call them Ice and Bear, but left them in the end where they are although they still look incredibly cute.

But should we get here any problems with theft, wolves or bad educated dogs that come along, he surely will buy immediatly such nice little icebears and a couple of yellow signs that they don't want to play.

 

[Woody girl]

Own a dog like that in Britain and no amount of signs saying your dog doesn't want to play will work. You will be convicted of having a dangerous dog.
Fines, prison and bans on keeping animals will be your next step.
Several breeds are already banned and owning them will get you a visit from Mr policeman, (probably several) dog removed, destroyed, and a nice appearance in front of the magistrates will be forthcoming.
A lot of public rights of way go through farmers fields where sheep are kept.
Unsupervised Killer dogs would just not be possible, and farmers are far too busy to stand in a field all day making sure their dog didn't attack innocent hikers!
Sorry erb, stupidest solution I've ever heard. No offence meant.

 

[TLM]

How about Lamas? They are apparently very good against foxes praying on sheep. I don't know if they attack people but I think not.

 

[demographic]

One sure fire way to make people disrespect an area is to exclude them from it.
Education on the other hand works the other way, its inclusive and teaching people about areas and how to use them makes them more likely to want to look after it.

As people who often carry a knife or even an axe we might want to keep our gobs shut on the whole 'banning things' subject.


Oh and on the devil dogs breeds worrying sheep thing? When we had a hillfarm with sheep on the fell we found the worst breed for attacking sheep was actually sheepdogs.
As we use the hunting instinct to get dogs to heard sheep its not that big a surprise.
Oh and the Neopolitan Mastif that the local headmistress down the hill owned had a good try as well.

 

[Woody girl]

I have a friend who keeps llamas, also sheep. Ill have to ask her next time I see her how it works on her moorland farm.

 

[Tengu]

I think the problem is people going into the countryside who dont need to.

There are many interesting things in town; why cant they stay there?

 

[demographic]

I think the problem is people going into the countryside who dont need to.

There are many interesting things in town; why cant they stay there?

Eh?

 

[Woody girl]

I think the problem is people going into the countryside who dont need to.

There are many interesting things in town; why cant they stay there?

The trouble is that people have been cooped up in their homes and local areas for almost a year, and want to get out and enjoy themselves a bit and a change of scene. Get some fresh air free of traffic fumes and away from others where they could catch covid.
Most entertainment such as cinemas etc isn't open and maybe they don't have the money.
Walking is pretty much a free activity that almost everyone of whatever age can do.
Not everyone wants to explore the history of their local area, and perhaps they already know it, or have small children who would get bored or not realy understand much.
People want to play again.