Natural-fibre sleep mat?
- Thread starter Tagaeri
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Sorry Tagaeri, when you said weight and size were important because you had to fit it in a backpack, I assumed you were putting together gear for backpacking purposes. If you are not going far, then it doesn't matter. Your best choice in those circumstances is probably to bring two extra blankets and use them as a pad. They'll work fine. Another option is to just get natural fiber elements against your skin and then use other materials elsewhere. You have a silk liner against your skin, so you will not feel the rest of the bag, and certainly not the sleeping pad. Also, a pad made from rubber obtained from a tree in the Amazon feels exactly the same as a pad made from rubber derived from petroleum, but your body wouldn't be touching either.
Very true!
OK, so assuming I go for a closed foam or self-inflating mat in the end, anyone got any recommendations? The German Army folding foam ones looks quite good, or I'm quite tempted by the 3/4 length British Army self-inflating ones. I've never used a self-inflating one - are they a little delicate for the woods?
It depends on what you value in a pad. The inflating ones are smaller and can be warmer, but they are less durable. I have a Thermarest NeoAir XTherm. It weighs 15oz and has an R value of 5.7 US. If getting a closed cell foam one, compare the R values and get the mat with the highest one.
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Behind the link is an article from Finnish outdoor magazine "ERÄ" (5E/2007). They compared different kind of modern and traditional matts. The results are displayed in numerical values in the final page.
The overall winner was a space blanket on top of c. 30 cm thick layer of spruce boughs. However, Exped Downmat 9 had only 2.5 % higher thermal conductivity value of that of space blanket + spruce boughs combination. Then again, spruce boughs can be gathered around the camping site, while Downmat 9 weighs 1.1 kg.
Reindeer pelt did not fare well, out of 23 tested mattresses, it was the fifth worst in terms of thermal conductivity. Pelts are also often too small for most hikers.
http://otavafiles.fi/plaza/uploads/erafi/files/vanhat/1967653.pdf
The overall winner was a space blanket on top of c. 30 cm thick layer of spruce boughs. However, Exped Downmat 9 had only 2.5 % higher thermal conductivity value of that of space blanket + spruce boughs combination. Then again, spruce boughs can be gathered around the camping site, while Downmat 9 weighs 1.1 kg.
Reindeer pelt did not fare well, out of 23 tested mattresses, it was the fifth worst in terms of thermal conductivity. Pelts are also often too small for most hikers.
http://otavafiles.fi/plaza/uploads/erafi/files/vanhat/1967653.pdf
That's very interesting, thanks.
In the end I've gone for a British Army 3/4 length self-inflating mat, which I'll use by default, combined with a browse bag of some sort to fill with available material on site. Not sure what to use for the browse bag yet though...
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In the end I've gone for a British Army 3/4 length self-inflating mat, which I'll use by default, combined with a browse bag of some sort to fill with available material on site. Not sure what to use for the browse bag yet though...
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I wish I could read it.
I'm assuming that is 30cm of compressed spruce boughs they used for the test. That would be about a foot of compressed spruce boughs (again assuming, can't read it), which would be about 4 feet of uncompressed boughs from my experience. I wish they had a translated chart.The thickness of the layer of boughs is not stated on the article, I estimated the uncompressed thickness based on the photograph on the second last page of the article. The compressed thickness would be perhaps only a half or a third of the uncompressed one. The test subject was 185 cm tall male weighing 75 kg.
Translation for the table on the last page (column by column, "ei" = n/a, red = the best values, blue = the worst values):
1. Name of the product (porontalja = reindeer hide, havupatja + avaruushuopa = spruce boughs + space blanket)
2. Type of the product (air, down, cell, other kind of mat)
3. Average temperature measured during a period of 10 minutes (lower value indicates less loss of heat to the surrounding environment)
4. Angle of friction (higher value indicates better ability to stay in place during sleep)
5. Weight of the product in grams
6. Dimensions of the product in centimeters, advertised
7. Dimensions of the product in centimeters, measured
8. Score given based on the insulative qualities of the product
9. Score given based on the weight of the product
10. Score given based on the angle of friction of the product
11. Overall score
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75Kg is only around 11 stones (English weight) which is really light, I wonder how a more typical 'buscrafter' would hold up.
An interesting article though Martti and thanks for posting.
An interesting article though Martti and thanks for posting.
........first find your spruce trees and the effort to cut and gather, vs the inbuilt pump of my down mat.
Options are good though
and it's useful to see some work like that. Thank you Martii.
In Scotland (mind spruce is an introduced species here, not native; the Norway spruce was reintroduced mid 16th century, though it is suspected that it was here during the last interglacial and died out, while the Sitka spruce was brought over from America hundreds of years later) heather has been the preferred bedding material. It lasts well; it stays springy. It used to be packed into box beds and then blankets or 'feather beds' (think big feather pillows) put over the top, by folks in houses, but a pile under you and your blankets is very comfortable. It smells good too
cheers,
Toddy
and the effort to cut and gather, vs the inbuilt pump of my down mat.Options are good though
and it's useful to see some work like that. Thank you Martii.In Scotland (mind spruce is an introduced species here, not native; the Norway spruce was reintroduced mid 16th century, though it is suspected that it was here during the last interglacial and died out, while the Sitka spruce was brought over from America hundreds of years later) heather has been the preferred bedding material. It lasts well; it stays springy. It used to be packed into box beds and then blankets or 'feather beds' (think big feather pillows) put over the top, by folks in houses, but a pile under you and your blankets is very comfortable. It smells good too
cheers,
Toddy
J
janeleonard
Guest
Natural fibre sleep mat is an awesome one. While many are turning towards coir beds and mattress, this one could be the best choice with people who like to be classic and traditional.
Do you by chance have a photo of what you are using? I'm in the process of gathering supplies for a bedroll I can carry behind my saddle. I saw a photo of a wool pelt inside a canvas oilskin. That's what I'm thinking about making. I'm curious as to how the pelt is attached to the oilskin
Thanks for any help.
MG
Thanks for any help.
MG
Couldn't figure out a natural set up that was a reasonable weight and cost. I now use an Appkit inflatable mat with a Tyvek groundsheet underneath for some protection (or a foam mat if it's really cold) with a down sleeping bag and a silk or fleece liner depending on temperature and an Alpkit bivvy bag.
Not exactly inexpensive, unless you can find one in a thrift store, Latex foam mats are available . Latex is a natural, rubber product.
https://ultimatesleep.com/latex-foam-mattress-pads
like these.
I would think that using heather or boughs is hardly "leave no trace" camping, and would be devastating in a heavily used route.
https://ultimatesleep.com/latex-foam-mattress-pads
like these.
I would think that using heather or boughs is hardly "leave no trace" camping, and would be devastating in a heavily used route.
I have found my "All Weather blanket" a pretty good ground mat if folded to a couple of thicknesses - equal to some of the thinner foam mats. It is just a thick wool blanket with Waxed Cotton sewn to one side. Instead of a bivibag I use a waxed cotton All Purpose sheet (cover/tarp/groundsheet ) and made myself a sleepingbag from blankets and use a silk liner that I made to fit.
OK not the lightest system but it is natural and works well for all but colder weather
OK not the lightest system but it is natural and works well for all but colder weather
