Money

[Chris]

The thing is, most of the commercial world has been working in a cashless way for a very long time. True, any business that interfaces with the public has used physical cash up to now but compared with the amount of money that flows between big businesses and across national borders, the cash is a very small amount. I guess, because my own company of 30 years never actually saw physical money, I've never felt particularly attached to it

It's nothing new, the public's just catching up!

For me it’s not the money itself that has changed, but the way my financial data is used. I don’t consent to be aggressively marketed at, or to have my spending habits shared with anyone other than my bank. I think it’s important that we are always given the ability to opt out of a system where we are just used as a commodity, for free, by people who use the data entirely to learn how to manipulate us with the goal of every penny removed from my pocket and put into theirs.

That’s what has changed when it comes to personal finances.

 

[TeeDee]

The thing is, most of the commercial world has been working in a cashless way for a very long time. True, any business that interfaces with the public has used physical cash up to now but compared with the amount of money that flows between big businesses and across national borders, the cash is a very small amount. I guess, because my own company of 30 years never actually saw physical money, I've never felt particularly attached to it

It's nothing new, the public's just catching up!

Isn't that a bit different? Not wishing to borrow too much americanism but I took the Question to relate more to M0 type narrow money.

The sort of , what do I have in my wallet to go down the local market with.

Maybe its also generational to an extent with the more tech savvy olders and younger generation embracing a cashless society more and more.

Money supply - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[William_Montgomery]

"Does having it afford you the luxury of being a more "moral" person? " I found this question interesting but not sure what you mean by it?

I suppose I was thinking along the lines of, how it might affect you on a deeper level in terms of your outlook. Has it changed the way you view your responsibilties and your role in society?

That might just sound like a load of old waffle though.

 

[William_Montgomery]

Interesting. Like a few of you, I too view the move towards a cashless society as concerning. I try to be very aware of those freedoms we are sacrificing to convenience.

I also find having/earning cash a lot easier to keep track of day to day spending.

Does anybody here feel like a cashless system has more pros than cons? If so, what do you feel they are?

Also, do men and women generally have a different relationship to money?

 

[Broch]

For me it’s not the money itself that has changed, but the way my financial data is used. I don’t consent to be aggressively marketed at, or to have my spending habits shared with anyone other than my bank. I think it’s important that we are always given the ability to opt out of a system where we are just used as a commodity, for free, by people who use the data entirely to learn how to manipulate us with the goal of every penny removed from my pocket and put into theirs.

That’s what has changed when it comes to personal finances.

I understand what you're saying but, to be honest, the stuff I buy with cash is just trivial - there's no way I would carry enough cash around all the time to pay for a big supermarket shop or to fill up with fuel. Having said that, I never get any marketing push from any suppliers that I have not specifically enrolled with. If they are really gathering data on my personal spending for some ulterior reason it's not apparent.

 

[British Red]

I see money as a tool to protect me and my family from some things (sickness, housing, nutrition etc) and a means to be as independent as possible, therefore removing the ability for interference where possible.

I totally understand what you mean by this, but, to a large degree I believe the opposite.

Of course having money provides more reassurance than not having money, but what gives me real reassurance is being able to do perfectly well without (much) money. Owning a modest home outright and having the means to produce food, water and fuel is unbelievably liberating. Whilst earning money is great, governments have a habit of raiding pensions, taxing savings & earnings & even forbidding various investments. Items we need such as food and fuel can rocket in price (the Ukraine invasion and fuel prices showed this). Items can also become unavailable (Covid lockdown showed this).

Whilst "Money" is infinitely preferable to "No Money" having the actual things we need, and the means to produce more is for us the most comforting feeling. Of course we can't produce everything, so we choose to have diverse income streams for the money that we need so that we aren't reliant on a dingle employer.

 

[slowworm]

Although you can teach the basics of money in school, I think people's attitudes to money are almost genetic and certainly influenced by life experience. I was known for being good with money when I was a child and my brother bad. This despite the same parents and schools.

I use whatever is most convenient, but even cash isn't perfect. Nowadays I tend to be more reasurred with a well stocked veg garden, log pile or pantry that a wallet of cash or savings.

 

[Broch]

I suppose I was thinking along the lines of, how it might affect you on a deeper level in terms of your outlook. Has it changed the way you view your responsibilties and your role in society?

That might just sound like a load of old waffle though.

I guess I answered that when I talked about running a company - for me, cashless was the norm so I'm happy to embrace it. My employees never saw cash, my suppliers never saw cash. I always ask if a shopkeeper or a café would prefer cash or card (if I have cash) and, without fail these days, they say card. It's much easier for their accounting.

I really don't worry about it; I've got better things to do than tilt at windmills (like fighting wind turbine planning applications ).

 

[haptalaon]

In terms of privacy, people in reciept of some state benefits, the government are allowed to look directly at what you're buying. It's very dehumanising. And Im sure they have mechanisms by which they can snoop on anyone if they like.

So that's a reason to use cash. Not because one has something to hide, but as a general principle that the government is not my dad & doesn't need to know my affairs.

 

[TeeDee]

I think my concern that needs reassurance , and as I can see none coming or being offered naturally , is that a truly cashless society is a bit of a crossing the financial Rubicon moment.

Once its done , its done....

Do I mostly use cards currently? Yes, But do I very much want to retain the ability to draw and use cash-cash if I see fit? also Yes.

My general thought is that if someone else is suggesting it - its too THEIR advantage and not yours.
As its Bankers that are suggesting it I'm even less willing to give up a liberty I take as a granted one , even if I don't exercise it day to day.

 

[Jared]

Can't have a system that can debank you, and be completely cashless.
As that'd prevent people from purchasing atleast essential goods (groceries, fuel, medicines).
So either have a `right` to have access to financial services, or stores have to be forced to accept cash.
Handful of countries (and some US states) have taken the latter option.

 

[Falstaff]

I guess I answered that when I talked about running a company - for me, cashless was the norm so I'm happy to embrace it. My employees never saw cash, my suppliers never saw cash. I always ask if a shopkeeper or a café would prefer cash or card (if I have cash) and, without fail these days, they say card. It's much easier for their accounting.

I really don't worry about it; I've got better things to do than tilt at windmills (like fighting wind turbine planning applications ).

But how would you or your business feel if your bank abitarily stopped yuor account without reason and blacked your credit rating/access with no means of support? This can and does happen to companies and individuals, Trusts and Charities, and is becoming even more common.
This is what is meant by control.

Cash as a physical holding does not have the same controls over it, although it has its limitations, not least whether the seller still accepts cash, many do not. Of course cash left in an account is at risk.
Recently my friend's phone stopped working for a technical reason. Suddenly she found she could no longer buy with her card or access her mail account because the banks required two-factor authentication which mandated a recognised phone number. She did not have a spare phone or enough cash to hand to panic buy another. Being unable to transfer monies to her bills account risked the whole pack of cards falling down, credit rating trashed, and potential automatic suspension of accounts by her bank.

 

[Woody girl]

An example today of how cash is important.
Our one and only cashpoint in town was not working.
I needed to pay a friend for some tesco online shopping she had done for me. I don't bank online, in any way, so could not do a bank transfer, so I needed cash, which is our agreement anyway. So, no access to cash without a 20 mile each way bus ride, and it was too late for a return journey anyway.
Luckily, I have a stash at home for emergencies so I had to dig into that. No problem for me, but others were complaining to the store that has the cashpoint that they needed cash, and couldn't get any, being new year, they are not sure when it will be rectified. So when electronics/internet stop working, there is a major problem for everyone in access to cash.
I'm sure l budgeted better as a youngster when my wages were paid in cash weekly. I knew exactly how much I had to the last penny, and never had a problem with access to my own money. And nobody could take it without my authorisation, as I didn't have a bank account, just saved in an instant access building society. I kept the building society going untill the late 1990s when it merged with a bank, and I ended up with a bank account with a card, and ended up with debt untill I learned to manage my card. Now I only use it to withdraw my weekly cash budget, or pay my bills. By being disciplined like this, I actualy started to save a small amount each week, which now gives me a small cushion, though it wouldn't last long!

 

[Broch]

And how much cash do you suggest people keep on hand to deal with all these potential emergencies?

I have had problems with two-factor authentication and, when I phoned the bank on a landline, the problem was dealt with in about two minutes.

 

[Woody girl]

And how much cash do you suggest people keep on hand to deal with all these potential emergencies?

I have had problems with two-factor authentication and, when I phoned the bank on a landline, the problem was dealt with in about two minutes.

One month's worth of outgoings, which for me is rent, electric, sewerage, water, (Yes I have two different companies, one provides water the other sewerage, most people only have one bill)
Council tax, shopping, plus £250 for emergencies.
You might need to factor in vehicle costs, travel costs, and children's treats/birthdays. I no longer have a vehicle, or kids, so I'm spared that.
I now have a bus pass, cos I'm old, so that's travel sorted!... localy anyway, I don't think I'd want to travel to London, or Scotland by bus pass.

 

[Pattree]

For me:
Cash is a pain.
Change is a pain. (The MRLP Financial Manifesto proposed the introduction of a 99p coin.)
Cash has been a pain for many years, since before cards and certainly before phone banking. I used cheques wherever I could. If you are beyond a certain age you might have stood behind me at the checkout while I wrote one out.

Yes there are cash only businesses but there are far more cash-free ones.

I don’t really understand the OP; certainly not the moral or slavery bit.

Anyone who thinks that they have privacy these days is either very naive or self delusional. The genie is well out of that particular bottle by now.

Have phone, will travel - anywhere in any currency. Right across Africa and Asia the phone is becoming the preferred payment method.

Have I ever had a problem? Just once ten years ago in York when I couldn’t get into a cinema when their system went down. When our local garden centre’s system went down they just took card details. Slowed down but not stopped.

I’m not being adversarial, it’s just how I think- you may not agree with me and that’s fine.

 

[William_Montgomery]

Anyone who thinks that they have privacy these days is either very naive or self delusional. The genie is well out of that particular bottle by now.

I don't agree. There is still privacy to be had if you choose. It's just a matter of lifestyle and how much you're willing to sacrifice to the modern gods of convenience and comfort. It's under threat, but it certainly still exists.

 

[TeeDee]

I don't agree. There is still privacy to be had if you choose. It's just a matter of lifestyle and how much you're willing to sacrifice to the modern gods of convenience and comfort. It's under threat, but it certainly still exists.

Agreed. - Yes if it is ( privacy ) under somewhat of an attack and it maybe a losing battle but slowing the erosion of such things by choosing to not comply ( if its an option ) WILLINGLY maybe all that people can do.

 

[Chris]

Privacy also isn’t a binary thing.

There’s a whole range of types of privacy and areas in which you can have privacy, and each of those has a fairly broad spectrum on which you can choose where to fall based on the effort you want to put in or the sacrifices you’re willing to make.

Maintaining it as an option when it comes to currency for those who want it is important and shouldn’t be denied to them just because there are others who don’t care about it for themselves. This sort of thinking quickly leads to the erosion of rights and protections.

 

[William_Montgomery]

As well as privacy concerns, there is also concern over how fragile and vunerable the overall system is. It's easy to plod along with a sense of security about the whole thing, but the reality is that it doesn't take much for the contents of your bank account to become inaccessible.

Without wanting to get too political, we only have to look back at Canada a couple of years ago to see how much security you really have over your money.