Modern bushcraft !?!

[Squidders]

I love this argument... it just goes on and on and on.

Can we all agree that all fabrics will feel the effects from fire to an extent? y/n
Can we agree that if goretex were 1cm thick like a woolen jumper, a stray spark might not go all the way through? y/n
Can we all agree that John Fenna has a preference for wools, cottons and other man-made fibres and that is ok just like my preference for goretex? y/n
Can we all agree that when motorsport teams need something fire-proof they don't run for the woolie pullies but opt for modern fire proof fabrics? y/n
Can we all agree that the subject of modern bushcraft is more than the age old goretex/ventile/wool debate? y/n

We haven't even got to fighting over titanium/steel/iron yet!

 

[Toddy]

On that note, I have to admit that I'm in favour of modern tefloned aluminium myself Spreads the heat more evenly

cheers,
M

 

[Squidders]

Even so, it's still 0.3mm thin and useless for anything other than boiling liquids. I'd say limited applications, no more than heating dried meals for ultralight people.

 

[John Fenna]

I love this argument... it just goes on and on and on.

Can we all agree that all fabrics will feel the effects from fire to an extent? y/n
Can we agree that if goretex were 1cm thick like a woolen jumper, a stray spark might not go all the way through? y/n
Can we all agree that John Fenna has a preference for wools, cottons and other man-made fibres and that is ok just like my preference for goretex? y/n
Can we all agree that when motorsport teams need something fire-proof they don't run for the woolie pullies but opt for modern fire proof fabrics? y/n
Can we all agree that the subject of modern bushcraft is more than the age old goretex/ventile/wool debate? y/n

We haven't even got to fighting over titanium/steel/iron yet!

OOOOh!
Y
Y (it is known as "plumbers tape" if thicker than a laminate...)
Y
Y (cheap flash hoods are still made of wool, spendthrift motor "sports" gear is "Nomex" or similar)
Y


Carbon steel for knives, Stainless steel for billies, Cast Iron for frying, titanium for ... the rich and spendthrifty
Works for me

 

[demographic]

Can we all agree that when motorsport teams need something fire-proof they don't run for the woolie pullies but opt for modern fire proof fabrics? y/n

Nomex. IIRC.

 

[rik_uk3]

On that note, I have to admit that I'm in favour of modern tefloned aluminium myself Spreads the heat more evenly

cheers,
M

I thought the aluminium spread the heat (its very good at doing that) and the Teflon stopped food sticking?

 

[Toddy]

Even so, it's still 0.3mm thin and useless for anything other than boiling liquids. I'd say limited applications, no more than heating dried meals for ultralight people.

what you've been using, but my wee frying pan is a brilliant saute pan for stir fries , makes pretty good tattie scones or cornmeal bannocks too

cheers,
M

 

[Jared]

OOOOh!
Y
Y (it is known as "plumbers tape" if thicker than a laminate...)
Y
Y (cheap flash hoods are still made of wool, spendthrift motor "sports" gear is "Nomex" or similar)
Y

Fireproof racing suits/overalls are made from Proban, which is a treated cotton.

 

[Tiley]

It's a pity that the original thread has been hijacked by a largely spurious discussion about the flammability of modern fabrics. If memory serves me right, we were originally invited to discuss the role of modern materials - not just Goretex and synthetics worn as garments - in bushcraft.

Perhaps we could branch out and think about titanium, stainless steel (or any steel for that matter...), or the alloy that makes a firesteel. Maybe there's space to think about the globalisation of bushcraft, with us borrowing happily from the Scandinavian countries and other corners of the world to practise our 'skills' more easily - just let's get away from whose clothes burn and whose don't. Please?

 

[rik_uk3]

No problem, Titanium is crap material to use as a cooking pot, poor at spreading heat etc, best off with Aluminium, Stainless steel and cast iron in that order.

 

[Toddy]

On that note; do you think that there is a distinctly 'British' bushcraft ? Not one founded on practices in other countries, but specific to our environments, our climatic variability, etc., ?
We are the first industrialised nation, the first nation where the urban/rural balance changed, and where the bonds of traditional living were well and truly snapped.
Is our therefore very modern Bushcraft not only an attempt to re-root ourselves in our natural habitat, but to do so with modern knowledge and advantages alongside the choices we make in our clothing, equipment and behaviour ?

M

 

[CACTUS ELF]

On that note; do you think that there is a distinctly 'British' bushcraft ? Not one founded on practices in other countries, but specific to our environments, our climatic variability, etc., ?
We are the first industrialised nation, the first nation where the urban/rural balance changed, and where the bonds of traditional living were well and truly snapped.
Is our therefore very modern Bushcraft not only an attempt to re-root ourselves in our natural habitat, but to do so with modern knowledge and advantages alongside the choices we make in our clothing, equipment and behaviour ?

M

I just enjoy it and try not to think to much. Far more relaxing that way.

 

[salad]

I went through the whole thing of buying lots natural bushy type kit when I first got involved in the bushcraft scene because I read lots of posts from people who said it was better than modern kit .

I had a lot of fun using this kit and still do use some of it but I have also found that some modern kit suits my activities better. As I don't have so much money to spend on kit these days (since the little-un came along) I have "is it fit for purpose" approach to any kit I buy and use now

I hike a lot so my cook pot is light weight Ti , no it does not spread heat as well as other pots but yes I have learnt to cook proper food well with it . It was not that hard to learn to do .

I use a light weight gore tex shell jacket and have no holes in-it and I do sit round fires a lot

I use a wool shirt as my midlayer or outer in cool but dry weather, there are modern lighter alternatives but I like the traditional appeal and feel of wool, all the local high altitude shepherds here also use wool with gore-tex shell over the top .

I use a leather bushy type possibles pouch as I don't like all my essentials in my pockets as they rub when walking up a mountain ( phone ,whistle ect ect)

I used to use canvas packs but sold them and replaced with modern rucksacks as I find them more comfortable hiking over long distances


Well thats where I am at anyway kinda pick and mix what works for me

 

[santaman2000]

Nope; look at any of the folks who wear modern fabrics around fires for any length of time at all.....it's all spark holed

M

Mine ain't.

 

[santaman2000]

....There's a damned good reason that hearth rugs were made of pure wool while fake ones were lethal.......,

There's also a damned good reason the clothing the fire brigade wears is synthetic (by law it's NOMEX)

 

[Bumbler]

On that note; do you think that there is a distinctly 'British' bushcraft ? Not one founded on practices in other countries, but specific to our environments, our climatic variability, etc., ?
We are the first industrialised nation, the first nation where the urban/rural balance changed, and where the bonds of traditional living were well and truly snapped.
Is our therefore very modern Bushcraft not only an attempt to re-root ourselves in our natural habitat, but to do so with modern knowledge and advantages alongside the choices we make in our clothing, equipment and behaviour ?

M

As a Norwegian, I must say you do a lot of weird stuff, but I can't really put my finger on what it is. Sometimes though, bushcrafters are people that really go out of their way to overcomplicate the simplest of tasks. Again I can't really give examples.

 

[Squidders]

forgot to quote!

 

[Squidders]

what you've been using, but my wee frying pan is a brilliant saute pan for stir fries , makes pretty good tattie scones or cornmeal bannocks too

cheers,
M

My fault entirely, for some reason my work addled brain read titanium and not aluminium... my statement stands regarding titanium but you're off the hook for now

Yes, aluminium rules too!

Cheap, light, takes non-stick well and generally happy stuff.

 

[demographic]

It's a pity that the original thread has been hijacked by a largely spurious discussion about the flammability of modern fabrics. If memory serves me right, we were originally invited to discuss the role of modern materials - not just Goretex and synthetics worn as garments - in bushcraft.

Hijacked? Err, do you not find that during natural conversations with people that you don't always end up talking about exactly the thing you started out? That's what happened here and in my opinion its well within the scope of the original question anyway.
Just for the record this was the opening post...

I have been asked to write an article on modern kit and equipment and its uses in bushcraft in 2013.

I was just wondering what people's thoughts are, what do you guys think on the issue, I enjoy modern kit I must confess to being a bit of a jack door when it come to shinny kit.

But I am fascinated with the more traditional methods and the skills used, but I much prefer wearing gortex and full strech fabrics than wax jackets and wool.

Can the two mix or is there a hard core bushcrafters scene!

People don't all agree, that's actually allowed in most countries, including this one. None of its involved swearing or direct insults and I doubt that a single person has deep seated psychological damage from the Great man made Fibre Versus Natural Fibre Very Slight Derail.

Some of the people I respect the most have views that differ wildly from my own, its not always a big deal.

Of course there's always the risk that threads showing the merest whiff of argument get locked, personally I'd be shocked if this was deemed to be even close but...

Right, back to the main point.
I (like a lot of people) don't own any land other than my house and don't really feel like starting fires on other peoples land without permission so most times I use a stove to cook when camping. Like many others here I have a few stoves, my favourite is a lovely brass gem called a Svea 123R.
Just puts a smile on my face looking at it.
I have various axe's and knives but don't often take the axe's camping, great tools for chopping wood but again its not always my land.
I do a fair bit of synthetic fibres, Gore Tex is pretty damn good and I wear it at work so know in the right setting it can take a hammering. I've welded timber lodge chassis wearing synthetic fibres and yeah, its not ideal cos the MIG spatter burns small holes in the jacket I was wearing but I still wear it now and I didn't catch fire.

Most of us do this as a hobby, hell, its fun and interesting.
We make things, camp out, carve an obsessive amount of spoons, identify plants while walking the dog, talk kit, buy dutch ovens we can't carry far, wear all sorts, take photos of knives using our posh digital cameras in bits of hide. Every single one of us cherry picks what level of technology we are happy with, its no surprise that we don't all agree is it? Its no big deal though and surely most people here realise that.

 

[Toddy]

Squidders; I did wonder you're usually pretty practical Yeah, Ti's good but it's a pain to keep an eye on for long for cooking. Doable, but needs attention. Aluminium and good teflon's a good pairing.

Santaman, we'd already tried to move on....and while Kevlar might be fine for police and firefighters, (advice is for layering I believe to protect from both heat and water absorption as well as chemicals; where do you get it's by law ? it's practical ) it's blooming heavy for us to wander around in. It also degrades in UV light.
"The ultraviolet component of sunlight degrades and decomposes Kevlar, a problem known as UV degradation, and so it is rarely used outdoors without protection against sunlight"
Besides, my firepoi are made of Kevlar too and trust me, they do burn . Over time the heat leaves the folded and bolted together ribbon very brittle. My Dad was a fireman and they wore wool and sou'westers, but then, different times, and they were more inclined to fight a fire from outside a building rather than take the water to it. Now they have fire suppressant foams and the like too.

The comments about British Bushcraft are interesting though

cheers,
Toddy