I buy quite a bit of military surplus because it's cheap and durable. Not to get political, but I'd rather buy surplus than support the communist Chinese, and almost all the outdoor gear here in the USA is Chinese made. Also, because I am concerned about the state of the environment, I try to buy used goods when possible. And lastly, I like to hunt. Getting rain gear in bright yellow versus getting it in camo is means I'll just have to get another set to hunt in. I can hike and camp in my hunting gear, but not bright colored hiking and camping gear can reduce chances of a successful hunt. As far as looking too military, I don't worry about it. I am saving money, being practical, and helping the environment.
Military Connections?
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Ex squaddie here. Done my bit and now a happy civvy. Still use some military kit but only the useful bits. Our unit were lucky enough to be able to suppliment our issue kit with better stuff from civvy street and other forces. Better bergens, boots, compasses, fleeces, survival accessories etc. Remember a soldier under orders has to put up with a lot more than a civilian walking for pleasure so the civvy kit was a lot better (but sometimes hard to find in olive or cammo).
Example of good civvy and other forces kit we got hold of
Berghaus Vulcan rucksack
Alt-Berg Boots
Berghaus zip up fleeces
Norgee tops (not issued when I was in)
American Army Helmets (better that the tin toby)
US boonie hats
RAF button compass
Fleece watch cap (better than a cap comforter)
1000 mile socks
Plastic racing spoon from US rations
Example of good civvy and other forces kit we got hold of
Berghaus Vulcan rucksack
Alt-Berg Boots
Berghaus zip up fleeces
Norgee tops (not issued when I was in)
American Army Helmets (better that the tin toby)
US boonie hats
RAF button compass
Fleece watch cap (better than a cap comforter)
1000 mile socks
Plastic racing spoon from US rations
The first poll question was misleading to someone like me who always reads in between the lines as well as the lines themselves.
Ex/current services and proud of the contribution wartime experiences have made to bush lore
I read that as G W Bush lore as in the reputation of the US president.:twak:
I then voted for the third option, started reading the threads and realised that I misred the poll.
Served with REME in regs and Argylls as TA . Great fun.
I am now a school teacher and agree with bringing national service back but would rather see them as gophers for the regs to make their lives easier.
Ex/current services and proud of the contribution wartime experiences have made to bush lore
I read that as G W Bush lore as in the reputation of the US president.:twak:
I then voted for the third option, started reading the threads and realised that I misred the poll.
Served with REME in regs and Argylls as TA . Great fun.
I am now a school teacher and agree with bringing national service back but would rather see them as gophers for the regs to make their lives easier.
Its about time I got to this thread,
Joined the RAF in '81 just before the Falklands Conflict kicked off and served till '94
I got a four year engineering apprenticeship out of it and the rest of the time working on helicopters. Visited some of the muddier parts of the planet and learned the start of what we now call Bushcraft in just trying to get more comfortable in several holes in the ground.
I use military kit when there is no civvy version, but think that the PLCE/MOLLE stuff is so expensive because it has become popular with the Wannabes/pretender crowd. The one item of kit that really didn't cut the mustard were the Boots DMS - they were cr*p no two ways about it.
I don't mind dressing in green at anytime nowadays as I'm proud of what I did and enjoyed the experiences at the time, it kinda made me what I am now.
Anyway, this is startign to feel like swinging the lamp, so I'll end now.
ATB
Ogri the trog
Joined the RAF in '81 just before the Falklands Conflict kicked off and served till '94
I got a four year engineering apprenticeship out of it and the rest of the time working on helicopters. Visited some of the muddier parts of the planet and learned the start of what we now call Bushcraft in just trying to get more comfortable in several holes in the ground.
I use military kit when there is no civvy version, but think that the PLCE/MOLLE stuff is so expensive because it has become popular with the Wannabes/pretender crowd. The one item of kit that really didn't cut the mustard were the Boots DMS - they were cr*p no two ways about it.
I don't mind dressing in green at anytime nowadays as I'm proud of what I did and enjoyed the experiences at the time, it kinda made me what I am now.
Anyway, this is startign to feel like swinging the lamp, so I'll end now.
ATB
Ogri the trog
TA for 6 years. Have enjoyed most of it.
I would agree with you there. NS would be of benefit, but I think it should be run as it is in Sweden etc. In that you do 12 months service but have the option to extend or go 'regular'. So in essence, the NS force would be a non-deployable, lightly scaled/equipped training force. It would offer employment to SNCOs in their last few years and JNCOs doing a short secondment as part of their careers. Speaking as a fairly young person, I see people everyday who are older than me and have achieved absolutely zilch. Having been through fairly tough training (currently with a northern Airborne unit ! ) and seen the benefit in myself, I can see that just a few months of a similar experience would give these 'kids' a whole set of skills and a bearing that will do them the world of good. As I said though, it would be a non-deployable role. I don't hold with a) forcing people to fight or b) holding back the regulars by giving them inexperienced and unmotivated soldiers.
As far as the kit goes, I tend to use green/black kit rather than lurid colours. Most of it is civvy stuff though as I would feel a bit uncomfortable wearing DPM out on my own. It's not very smart from the personal security side of things. Regarding the 'military kit is made by the lowest bidder' comment, that's true, but you should see the value of some of the defence contracts! 
And remember, civvy kit is made with profit first, function second.
I would agree with you there. NS would be of benefit, but I think it should be run as it is in Sweden etc. In that you do 12 months service but have the option to extend or go 'regular'. So in essence, the NS force would be a non-deployable, lightly scaled/equipped training force. It would offer employment to SNCOs in their last few years and JNCOs doing a short secondment as part of their careers. Speaking as a fairly young person, I see people everyday who are older than me and have achieved absolutely zilch. Having been through fairly tough training (currently with a northern Airborne unit ! ) and seen the benefit in myself, I can see that just a few months of a similar experience would give these 'kids' a whole set of skills and a bearing that will do them the world of good. As I said though, it would be a non-deployable role. I don't hold with a) forcing people to fight or b) holding back the regulars by giving them inexperienced and unmotivated soldiers.
As far as the kit goes, I tend to use green/black kit rather than lurid colours. Most of it is civvy stuff though as I would feel a bit uncomfortable wearing DPM out on my own. It's not very smart from the personal security side of things. Regarding the 'military kit is made by the lowest bidder' comment, that's true, but you should see the value of some of the defence contracts!
And remember, civvy kit is made with profit first, function second.
Been in the RN for 15 years, but mosly seconded to 'other' areas and hardly seen the sea at all during this time. Just been promoted to Cdr I have recently seen an integration of bushcraft skills into our own combat and survival courses, and from there watched peoples interest in the subject grew more personal. Military kit is even including Moras and firesteels too, although the rest of the kit is pretty dire and you end up buying your own.
I have recently seen an integration of bushcraft skills into our own combat and survival courses, and from there watched peoples interest in the subject grew more personal. Military kit is even including Moras and firesteels too, although the rest of the kit is pretty dire and you end up buying your own.
I tried to join up at 17 but because of previous health issues I was never even put forward for a medical! I wanted to be a sniper!
I did join the Royal Observer Core and served for a wee while before it got disbanded. the bunkers were quite cool but it was really very scary stuff when we did excercises. So it was volutary service I did.
I did join the Royal Observer Core and served for a wee while before it got disbanded. the bunkers were quite cool but it was really very scary stuff when we did excercises. So it was volutary service I did.
I did 13 years regular RE service with a lot of detachments to Green Slime ops during the 70's & early 80's so most of my bushcraft was of the rural urbal cold war variety. did some mountaineering in Norway which ill never forget and long to go back to but my actual survival training was minimal to say the least. I started in Armoured Engineers where survival training meant knowing how to pitch a tank bivvy on the engine decks while theyre still warm and knowing exactly how many carlsberg crates fit in the back basket of an AVRE 165.
I am turning more and more to using current army kit, by comparison to the old 58 patt stuff its streets ahead, dead cheap and substantial. I really dont give a t**s if somebody thinks i look like a wannabe so long as the kit im using does the job i need it to.
With regard to the standard of lads in the mob today i dont think things have changed much from my time (where the exact same things were said). I'm an honarary member of the WO's & Sgts mess at Chatham and my wife works for the local college. the lads that are in serving now are still that bit better that the little scrotes that my wife deals with daily and I think thats the crucial difference. My nephew is just now discovering that its not so easy to sign up today - they are pretty picky - so the days when you joined up simply because you couldnt think of a better idea are on the way out.
Personally I look back with pride at my service days - even the really shi**y times - and there were plenty of those. They turned a stroppy little east end no-hoper into somebody with a better outlook on life that he ever would have got staying where he was.
Cheers
Nick
I am turning more and more to using current army kit, by comparison to the old 58 patt stuff its streets ahead, dead cheap and substantial. I really dont give a t**s if somebody thinks i look like a wannabe so long as the kit im using does the job i need it to.
With regard to the standard of lads in the mob today i dont think things have changed much from my time (where the exact same things were said). I'm an honarary member of the WO's & Sgts mess at Chatham and my wife works for the local college. the lads that are in serving now are still that bit better that the little scrotes that my wife deals with daily and I think thats the crucial difference. My nephew is just now discovering that its not so easy to sign up today - they are pretty picky - so the days when you joined up simply because you couldnt think of a better idea are on the way out.
Personally I look back with pride at my service days - even the really shi**y times - and there were plenty of those. They turned a stroppy little east end no-hoper into somebody with a better outlook on life that he ever would have got staying where he was.
Cheers
Nick
Since I posted this poll, it's about time I put in my two-penneth.
I've never served, but have been through various phases in my relationship with the military. My father and grandfather were RAF and I spent my youth obsessed with airplanes, guns and 'survival'. I got the Lofty Wiseman book when I was 10 and hardly put it down. I spent a lot of time running around woods or climbing trees, always in full combats with a toy gun in one hand. I was a cadet for a while and considered a 6th form/university bursary, but never went any further.
Towards the end of school and through university, I swung to the opposite pole. I became ardently pacifist, my main objection centering around the actual idea of killing someone than anything political. Throughout, I have always maintained the highest admiration for those who put their life on the line for what they believe is right. I just felt I couldnt be a part of it.
I was still interested in the outdoors, but study and career got in the way for a number of years before my recent renewed interest through bushcraft. I now find myself reappraising my position again.
I see bushcraft as a fundamentally peaceful activity, but for which we have numerous military sources to thank for our current level of knowledge. Some of the kit is good its bomb-proof although frequently heavier than is needed for normal use. It is often cheaper than high-street outdoor clothing.
I avoid military clothing now. I think there is a middle ground between the sore-thumb yellow anoraks and head-to-toe DPM. I dont want anyone to think Im military, particularly having done a lot of this stuff overseas. I also think we have to watch the way we are perceived by outsiders. I would rather people looked on the bushcraft community as nature-lovers, craftsmen and occasional hunters than weekend warriors or anti-establishment survivalists. When it comes to debates over knife-carrying or shooting rabbits with an air-rifle, were on a much better footing the less violent we look. As always, others may disagree and I wish I was un-vain enough just to say, I dont care what I look like, everything I wear is for its function, but Im not.
I've never served, but have been through various phases in my relationship with the military. My father and grandfather were RAF and I spent my youth obsessed with airplanes, guns and 'survival'. I got the Lofty Wiseman book when I was 10 and hardly put it down. I spent a lot of time running around woods or climbing trees, always in full combats with a toy gun in one hand. I was a cadet for a while and considered a 6th form/university bursary, but never went any further.
Towards the end of school and through university, I swung to the opposite pole. I became ardently pacifist, my main objection centering around the actual idea of killing someone than anything political. Throughout, I have always maintained the highest admiration for those who put their life on the line for what they believe is right. I just felt I couldnt be a part of it.
I was still interested in the outdoors, but study and career got in the way for a number of years before my recent renewed interest through bushcraft. I now find myself reappraising my position again.
I see bushcraft as a fundamentally peaceful activity, but for which we have numerous military sources to thank for our current level of knowledge. Some of the kit is good its bomb-proof although frequently heavier than is needed for normal use. It is often cheaper than high-street outdoor clothing.
I avoid military clothing now. I think there is a middle ground between the sore-thumb yellow anoraks and head-to-toe DPM. I dont want anyone to think Im military, particularly having done a lot of this stuff overseas. I also think we have to watch the way we are perceived by outsiders. I would rather people looked on the bushcraft community as nature-lovers, craftsmen and occasional hunters than weekend warriors or anti-establishment survivalists. When it comes to debates over knife-carrying or shooting rabbits with an air-rifle, were on a much better footing the less violent we look. As always, others may disagree and I wish I was un-vain enough just to say, I dont care what I look like, everything I wear is for its function, but Im not.
Still serving after 20 years
I joined because I wanted to fly, rather than a love for the great outdoors - that came later.
I would definitely go along with the "pick and mix" crowd when it comes to gear. Some of it was pretty good - Lightweights (Denims), 58 pattern water bottle and steel mug, Millbank bag, Arctic smock etc. Having said that, most of my bushcraft kit is civilian and I tend to wear green because I like to blend in. I avoid DPM only because, as Mickey P said, it would feel too much like a busman's holiday. The arctic smock sometimes gets an airing when I'm out shooting rabbits
My interest in bushcraft has helped with my job (I'm more comfortable on exercise now!) and the various combat survival courses I have done has helped with my interest in bushcraft - the two compliment each other in that respect. I found the last option a little odd in that I think that bushcraft is already pretty distanced from the military - we don't sleep in holes in the ground all the time! - a good many don't at all! There are some complimentary crossovers but not many. In the same way that I've had similar training to an airline pilot and use the same rules of the air - I wouldn't associate the airlines with the military.
Funnily enough I developed an interest in bushcraft despite going on exercises (which I generally loathe) not because of it. Usually on exercises (aggressive camping as we call it!) or Ops - you're generally too busy to appreciate your environment (that's if it's worth appreciating in the first place!).
Interesting thread - and some interesting posts
I joined because I wanted to fly, rather than a love for the great outdoors - that came later.
I would definitely go along with the "pick and mix" crowd when it comes to gear. Some of it was pretty good - Lightweights (Denims), 58 pattern water bottle and steel mug, Millbank bag, Arctic smock etc. Having said that, most of my bushcraft kit is civilian and I tend to wear green because I like to blend in. I avoid DPM only because, as Mickey P said, it would feel too much like a busman's holiday. The arctic smock sometimes gets an airing when I'm out shooting rabbits
My interest in bushcraft has helped with my job (I'm more comfortable on exercise now!) and the various combat survival courses I have done has helped with my interest in bushcraft - the two compliment each other in that respect. I found the last option a little odd in that I think that bushcraft is already pretty distanced from the military - we don't sleep in holes in the ground all the time! - a good many don't at all! There are some complimentary crossovers but not many. In the same way that I've had similar training to an airline pilot and use the same rules of the air - I wouldn't associate the airlines with the military.
Funnily enough I developed an interest in bushcraft despite going on exercises (which I generally loathe) not because of it. Usually on exercises (aggressive camping as we call it!) or Ops - you're generally too busy to appreciate your environment (that's if it's worth appreciating in the first place!).
Interesting thread - and some interesting posts
I always remember a QMSIs(sergeant major), who had an armoured(tanks) background, take on survival. Find local tesco/aldi or whatever, drive your tank in through the front fill up with tins and drive away again! Suppose this could work a couple of times!
Ha! Ha! And that my friend somes it up nicely!
Most squaddies I know aren't interested in "survival" for survival's sake (anyone can be uncomfortable!). Tankies and anyone else with "firms own transport" will take the kitchen sink with them if they can. Survival skills are definitely a last resort and if you find yourself using them, then something, usually, has gone badly wrong!
I suppose the difference is: When I'm "in the field" I am doing a job and I would prefer to have as many trappings of civilisation with me whilst I'm doing that job. When I'm bushcrafting I'm trying to get away from those trappings of civilisation (up to a point).
Wot, no time off for good behaviour????
I went in after a few years in the Police, my old man was a WO1 so I knew what I was getting into. I had lots of exposure to field craft as a kid and used to 'play' on lots of the exercise areas in BAOR. I had my first real taste as a teenager when I went to the old jungle warfare school, JB, Malaysia.
My experience in the military went to the two extremes of either totally tactical or living on a camp bed in a barracks for the duration or, one time living in the back of an MK box body for 6 months with a bed, tv, fridge and cooker. I had some official experience and practice of survival training which is not bushcraft it is something else but the two do touch on each other.
Army kit was always pretty useless except for the odd item that was considered gold dust so for the serious stuff local purchase or self purchase was the answer. I remember having goretex about 3 years before everyone else and feeling sorry for them. I bought my own DPM/Camo basha when everyone else was using ponchos and ended up with a Brigadier walking over me on a patrol exercise............he felt such a pratt he tried to have a go at me for non-standard kit. I still have an army clasp knife complete with spike for removing boy scouts from horses hooves. Boots, I had Danner Acadia boots for years not the standard issue boots,dms or boots, high leg.
I try not to wear or use camo or dpm kit unless there is no alternative. Some places I visit it is considered para-military and you can land in the doo-doo whilst doing nothing untoward or nefarious. I am even a member of a Military Parachuting Club where most people wear camo or uniform but I just wear a jumpsuit.
I started very young as a Junior Leader at 16, (Bohemian Rhapsody was no 1 in the charts), serving in the RCT, as I had failed the maths exam to enable me to join the REME.
There were s**tty times and good times. I was lucky enough to be part of the last major cold war battle excersise in Europe code named 'Clam Fury'.
This was an eye opener for a very young lad as the devastation to the German farming landscape was on a scale that I never imagined.
I ended my very short military career in the TA serving with the RGJ.
I still have my issue suitcase (what a bizzar thing to keep!) and a worn out pair of braces neither of which are any good for bushcraft.(Sadly my stable belt was stolen in India) Most of my kit now is a mixture of green and black. I'm not happy with camoflage because I feel that it looks suspect.
Swyn.
There were s**tty times and good times. I was lucky enough to be part of the last major cold war battle excersise in Europe code named 'Clam Fury'.
This was an eye opener for a very young lad as the devastation to the German farming landscape was on a scale that I never imagined.
I ended my very short military career in the TA serving with the RGJ.
I still have my issue suitcase (what a bizzar thing to keep!) and a worn out pair of braces neither of which are any good for bushcraft.(Sadly my stable belt was stolen in India) Most of my kit now is a mixture of green and black. I'm not happy with camoflage because I feel that it looks suspect.
Swyn.
I have been in the RN for 8 years and because of my job i have lived and breathed with royal marines in all sorts of environments, worked with the army and also with the RAF, i have been taught basic survival in all conditions and enjoy all aspects of bushcraft and coneing, i may be in the field for weeks at a time with my trusty DPM issue kit, but there is nothing more i like than putting my canoe on the car and shooting up to the lakes for a bivvy and a beer with friends. The kit i have been issued has kept me warm dry and has carried all my kit comfortably whatever the environment, however there has always been the issue of personlising the kit to suit. A good knife has alway been essential and cooking kit i use is a jetboild instead of the hexy stoves, a new sleeping bag just for the size and weight and new webbing, ( just to carry more)
When i go out not in military mode at tend to use a 50/50 mix of civvy and military kit as they all have there own advantages.
I think being in the military has its advantages as you get the basics issued and it gives you a great basic knowledge including nav,survival, and skills (all free) before you get out and explore and find you own way of doing things.
Jim
When i go out not in military mode at tend to use a 50/50 mix of civvy and military kit as they all have there own advantages.
I think being in the military has its advantages as you get the basics issued and it gives you a great basic knowledge including nav,survival, and skills (all free) before you get out and explore and find you own way of doing things.
Jim
I was an electrician by trade in the army, and when I went on an exercise I had the use of a 16/24 Newton Derby Gene pumping out 80 odd amps. There is nothing like being stuck in the middle of a training area and still having a kettle, TV, electric fan heaters etc.
On winter exercise in Norway, everyone could see where our tent had been because all the snow & Ice had melted.
Now thats when the term "Anyone can be uncomfortable" comes in. Don't get me wrong though on FTX's all this stuff was stripped away from us and we had to rely on our issue gear augmented by bits and pieces of civilian gear.
But when it comes to bushcraft I also believe its about getting back to the basics in one way or another so I steer away from the use of alot of kit and try and get by with as little as possible if that makes sense.
I don't believe in going out dressed head to toe in DPM there is no need because there is plenty of military style gear out there in the shops and on the net that comes in OG or black.
But this is just my opinion and no-one should take offence.
I'm intrigued now... do you know kleppers inside and out?
Nobody really knows Kleppers, on certain courses they always find some new activity for you to do with a klepper......most of them don't involve water.
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