Messing with guy lines, your thoughts please.

[Trunks]

Over the years i have tried several different ways of rigging my tarp, yet none of them have been perfect - for me

I have tried bungee cords, mini line locks etc, but am still looking for something that is light weight & requires the minimum amount of guy-line, but is really easy to use - especially when winter camping and the fingers are cold, which rules out using prussic loops.

I had ten minutes play time in the garden today, and came up with two possible solutions, but was wondering what your collective thoughts & ideas were.

Idea 1.

Using a "dutch hook":

I created a spliced fixed loop at the peg end of some Zing-it, and fixed a dutch hook to the other (using a bowline). Quite a simple adjuster, i just looped the hook through the tie-out ring on my tarp, and pulled up the slack from the peg, than "clipped" the hook on:

It seems very secure and withstood me tugging on my tarp - infact the peg will pull out of the ground before the hook slips.

I'm just not sure how this will perform in the wet & snow.

Idea 2.

Using two rings:

I got this idea way back when i used to hang my hammock with rap rings. Basically, the zing-it is fed, in a very particular way, through the rings so that, under tension, the rings tighten "trapping" the guy-line.

This worked very well and was a doddle to adjust. A bonus being, i could tighten the guy lines from under my tarp

However, i did need to pull the peg out of the ground to free up the rings.


Anyway, there you have my ideas. What do you think? Any thoughts/ideas are very welcome

 

[Teepee]

That sir, is bloody genius. I like that a lot.

Descending rings on guy lines is a top idea.

I've been searching for the same ( i think we chatted about it). I've been testing tarp flyz on the tie-outs and those plastic cleats I had in Scotland. So far, the cleats are winning hands down. (tested in the extended cold too)


I will promptly copy your idea and test it out

PS-make sure the rings are good quality-I've lost 2 cheaper ones in strong wind ( I use rings on my corner tie-outs for an inbuilt weak point)

Also, I've found the Dutch hooks to be real pain in the cold with my slightly oversize 2.2mm line.

 

[Teepee]

I'll add that IME, wet and snow don't affect tarp rigging negatively at all in terms of slipping. Its the opposite- it makes them bite harder usually as Dyneema is 10 times slippier than ice.

 

[lostplanet]

Have you tried putting adjustable knot at the tarp side so it is always tied and ready and then clove hitch the other end to a peg made on site? Or just evenk to a Tree and then tension at the tarp?

 

[ReamviThantos]

Well done Trunks brilliant idea, saves on wear and tear love that. Many thanks. I'll be following that one up for sure.

 

[Teepee]

No, it wasn't you I showed but that Dutch guy last week, can't remember his name now
Anyway, so you know what I'm talking about with the cleats, here's the post copied from HF;

Since being a member on here, all the usual stuff has made its way onto my tarp and hammock and it works great. Dutch clips, dutch buckles, dutch hooks, tarp flys, ridgline hooks, nacrabiners and Clamcleat line locs.

I've been happy with everything but the clamcleats on the tie-outs. If I'm pitching close to the ground, they need undoing and retieing. They take longer to sort than anything else on my setup.

I like to keep them tied on, but after a recent trip in the wind, they tangled several times and I lost 2 ti pegs to the heather after standing on them.

To me, an ideal system would be having the lines permanently attached to the stakes so losing stakes will no longer ever happen. An ideal system would also be quick attach/release to the tarp end of the tie-outs, light weight, easily adjustable, non snagging and secure. Also, it must work with thin cord.

After some noggin scratching, 2 candidates were apparent to do this; Dutch's fantastic tarp flyz and Clamcleats cl274 micro

So, I bought some cleats and started playing. (FYI, the nylon cleats are 2.6g each)

Today, I rigged my 3.2x3m diy tarp up with 9 x Cl274's and 1 tarp flyz( I only have one left

). I used some new flouro yellow English Braids hollow dyneema in 1mm size(look like 1.5 to me at least) to tie to the stakes with a Snell knot.

Pics;


My tarp and red stake bag;

Bundle of 10 Mountainfitter ti stakes and dyneema braid. 6 x 6ft center tie outs and 4 x 8ft corners.

My tarp without tangling, dangling lines. (yes I know I can hank them but I never seem to manage it and just stuff them in)

The cleats

The Tarp flyz

Captive ti stakes

I can see you! No more searching for titanium goodies

The cleats were attached through the rear hole only by a piece of dyneema knotted to form a toggle. They would be better attached with 2 alu countersink pop rivets onto a piece of narrow webbing. I did'nt go to that trouble as I'm just testing it.

To tie out the tarp is simple with these; put stake in ground, hold cleat with one hand, hold line with other, tension, place braid in slot, let go.

To release; pull loose end of line , whilt holding the cleat-it pulls straight out.


Initial conclusion;

The cleats are as quick to hold the braid as i was hoping, its impossible to attach them any quicker without velcro or magnets.

If this holds up in testing, it'll be the quickest way ever to attach tie outs.

They grab the line and stay grabbed, but will slip with 20kg of force. Thicker line holds much better, I couldnt get amsteel to slip at all.
The Flyz are obviously much more secure. They are also an improvement on the linelocs, but still no where near as quick and easy to attach, or release.

With thin cord, the Flyz win at present unless theres not much wind. With thicker line, the cleats win hands down. I think the thin cord will quickly wear the groove out, especially if it slips in strong wind.
I think theres mileage in this method and they are all staying on for more rigourous testing later this week when I go camping in the arctic. I'm going to use 4mm nylon line to be safe and if they fail, I can just revert to my old method of evenk knotting them on to the loops.

Apologies if I'm covering old ground but I haven't seen these cleats used like this before and it seems to solve some common problems and speed things up as well.

Any ideas, comments, suggestions and criticisms are welcome as usual

Maybe I'm missing something obvious and I'm trying to solve a problem that could be more easily overcome. There might be a product already being sold that I've missed. I've perused the Clamcleat website and all the other more suitable designs are for thicker lines. The aluminium toothed cleats with side entry are too heavy IMO at 7g each, but will not wear out. They are also made for line that is too fat.

Dutch, if you read this, maybe a modified or redesigned tarp fly would do even better in this application?


Thanks for looking

Pete.

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Last edited by turnerminator; 03-06-2012 at 19:18..

They've now been on for 6 months and still hold-leagues ahead of mini line locs IMO and I still haven't lost any Ti stakes.

 

[Trunks]

I've been searching for the same ( i think we chatted about it). I've been testing tarp flyz on the tie-outs and those plastic cleats I had in Scotland. So far, the cleats are winning hands down. (tested in the extended cold too)

Cheers Pete, it was from that chat in Scotland that got me thinking actually

PS-make sure the rings are good quality-I've lost 2 cheaper ones in strong wind ( I use rings on my corner tie-outs for an inbuilt weak point)

I've just used some sturdy keyring loops to test it out, don't think they'll be strong enough though. I might have to drop a PM to a certain purveyor of lightweight shiny gear

Also, I've found the Dutch hooks to be real pain in the cold with my slightly oversize 2.2mm line.

I'm using 1.75mm zing-it, so it might fair better, but i'm sure there must be a reason why the hooks haven't been used for this by someone else.

 

[Trunks]

Have you tried putting adjustable knot at the tarp side so it is always tied and ready and then clove hitch the other end to a peg made on site? Or just evenk to a Tree and then tension at the tarp?

Thanks for the tip, i'll give it a try, but am looking to use as few knots as possible - if thats possible.

 

[outdoord]

Been experimenting recently and i just tied 2 meters of paracord to a small carabiner. Just click it onto the loop the tie a knot in the cord where needed and peg it out.

 

[Chiseller]

I will be trying this method on my dd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjMmla9DSzo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[Trunks]

I will be trying this method on my dd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjMmla9DSzo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Good use of knots and makes sense spreading the load, but I bet he edited out the ten minutes it took him to untangle all those guy lines


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chiseller]

Good use of knots and makes sense spreading the load, but I bet he edited out the ten minutes it took him to untangle all those guy lines


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[SimonM]

I will be trying this method on my dd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjMmla9DSzo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

I tried that method a while ago, after seeing the same clip.

Whilst it does work, it is a pain to hank the guys, so went back to my old system of having guys attached to a loop of bungee cord, then a mini crab which I can attach to the tarp as needed.

Simon

 

[sandbender]

I don't like to leave my cordage attached to my tarp, too much flapping about in high winds will untie and tangle it all. I leave my guy lines attached to some very lightweight carabiners, these I can hook on to the tarp and tie to a pag or tree as needed. I can also loop the guy back through the carabiner a second time making a pulley type arrangement when tensioning the tarp.

 

[lostplanet]

Thanks for the tip, i'll give it a try, but am looking to use as few knots as possible - if thats possible.

Thats the beauty of it, the fiddly knot is already tied and a clove hitch or evenk ties and unties in seconds in all weathers.

http://www.asiteaboutnothing.net/cr_knots-optional.html
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=na-8lj26mCs

Nice thing is that if you do have hardware failure you still have these knots as backup which i am sure you already know.
(added for future reference searches)

Nice ideas above too.

 

[Chiseller]

If you struggle with hanking , a sliver of innertube is good and keeps everything tidy.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gaudette]

This may cause some controversy but I have Nite Ize figure 9s oattached to each corner of my tarp. The guys lines are attached to the stakes. They are so easy to tie on and release in all weathers. If your hands are cold or you have mittens on its easy. Some will say they damage the rope some will say they slip. I have never had any of these issues and trust me the wind whips across the fens. My wife does fairs and festivals and she uses them to tie down her 3 m pop up and they have worked in all weathers. I've used the big ones on my hammock before. Don't get me wrong I can tie all sorts of tensioning knots with my eyes shut if I needed too but these just work for me.


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"If we had some bacon we could have bacon and eggs, if we had some eggs"

 

[Stew]

I'm surprised you had problems with the line locks. It's what i use and find them really quick and easy. I find it frustrating how much I like them as I'm a knot guy but it's hard not to use these instead!

Can I ask why you didn't get on with them?

 

[bilmo-p5]

For what it's worth, this is my standard guy. I carry 4 but generally only use 1 or 2.

Alpkit minibiner, bog-standard bent alu runner & 3m £-shop paracord...



26g, if it matters

 

[Teepee]

I'm surprised you had problems with the line locks. It's what i use and find them really quick and easy. I find it frustrating how much I like them as I'm a knot guy but it's hard not to use these instead!

Can I ask why you didn't get on with them?

For what it's worth, this is my standard guy. I carry 4 but generally only use 1 or 2.

Alpkit minibiner, bog-standard bent alu runner & 3m £-shop paracord...

View attachment 12301

26g, if it matters

The issue with both of these types, and any that double the line up is that they will only adjust down to half their length. Any more adjustment needs a re-tie.

Re-tieing is fine for me, until its blowing a hooley or tipping down.