magnifying glass and charcloth

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badgeringtim

Nomad
May 26, 2008
480
0
cambridge
Just wondered if anyone else had tried this for lighting - i suppose one might consider it as cheating but i got so excited about how rediculously well it worked i just had to post.

Im using a printers lense which isnt that high mag but does have a little stand and a hinged top - so can keep it really steady which i think will be good.

Initially I tried with some card and didnt even get a burn mark so thought i would test it on charcloth - and in less than a second it was lit, i assumed i was sieng things and had to burn my finger to test it was true!
 

jdlenton

Full Member
Dec 14, 2004
3,002
7
50
Northampton
great stuff nevery thought about mag glass and char cothe but some of the HBC tinder boxes have a glass in them and they would have contained char cloth

thanks very much
 

slammer187

Nomad
Jul 11, 2009
411
0
Ireland
A torch reflector thing works the best, I've been using it for years and it will make any dry fibers smolder but the best is a concave beauty woman's mirror type thing they make things go up in flames!
 

badgeringtim

Nomad
May 26, 2008
480
0
cambridge
a flaming concave beauty woman's type thing, a vanity case?

It is a thought though, i wonder whats the 'best' magnification/surface area ratio....?
As a said i like my little gizmo 'cos it has a stand - and in theory doesnt require you to hold the glass, although its not something i have tried with much - i dont think the mag is great on it actually but its fun playing.
I wonder if you hold a magnifying glass over a photovoltaic cel if you get more energy from the spot you are hitting - or if you just ruin it! Sounds theoretically sound though -
 

pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
69
Fife
Badgeringtim, there's no such thing as cheating. If I need a fire I use a cigarette lighter and the most combustible materials to hand whereas, if I want a fire and have time to play at it I'll practice other methods. The term "theoretically sound" doesn't mean dependable, but does mean unlikely in certain circumstances!

The only lens I'd give room to is the one integral to my compass. But I'd willingly pay money to see this lot open their kit to produce women's powder compacts!
"Lippy, anyone?"
 
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Asa Samuel

Native
May 6, 2009
1,450
1
St Austell.
I posted a thread on this a little while ago after discovering how effective it is. So far I've only tried it with a small magnifying glass on char cloth but I wouldn't mind experimenting with different materials. Has anyone else had success with something other than char cloth?
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Earlier this year, before this current bout of sun-shiney-ness......
I set about trying to ignite some dry grass with a 5 x 4 inch flat fresnel lens that cost about £3 at a local bookshop.
The thing barely made it into focus on the grass and the whole thing burst into flames, never mind charcloth and embers!

The lens itself is flat, as thick as a credit card and flexible, and now resides under an elastic band around my Swedish mess kit! No more heavy glass magnifying glasses for me.

Ogri the trog
 

Hedgehog

Nomad
Jun 10, 2005
434
0
54
East Sussex
Those credit card sized fresnel reading lenses are great in strong sunshine - I like the sound of the larger ones though.

Cramp balls, Artists fungus Trama layer, Dried Birch Polypore etc...they will all form an ember from a lens or reflector.

You can use yer bins too.
 

Ruvio

Nomad
If you actually want to buy something like this to help with firelighting, I carry
http://www.sourcingmap.com/30x-mini...gle&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=ukfroogle

30X will literally light a frayed piece of fresh cut wood. You've really got to try it to believe it. I don't really feel like it's cheating because..well, bushcraft is all about being well prepared, and if i can take something the size of my thumb to help, I will :)
 

Neumo

Full Member
Jul 16, 2009
1,675
0
West Sussex
I must have another go with the Fresnel lens as well as playing with some lamp reflectors that I can lay my hands on. Part of what I love about BCUK is that it inspires you to do small projects or learn new skills such as this. I have been watching the Dual Survival shows on you tube, where lamp reflector fires have come up a few times so will give that a go at the weekend.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,980
14
In the woods if possible.
Just a quick bit of science before we all get carried away with magnifications.

To ignite something flammable you just need to make it hot enough in air. To increase the temperature of whatever it is you're trying to set fire to, all you have to do is arrange the condition that more heat is entering it than is leaving it. Aside from some really outlandish chemical reactions which we aren't ever going to see in the wilds, if more heat is entering something than is leaving it then the temperature will rise. While this condition holds the temperature will continue to rise. All you have to do then is wait.

To recap, you need two things: as much heat as possible entering, as little heat as possible leaving.

It doesn't really matter how much material you're heating, but since more material needs more heat to heat it, and since you're working with a finite amount of heat -- whatever you can coax from your magnifying glass or mirror -- and since things conspire against you all the time, you probably want it to be a modest amount of material. Of course there needs to be enough that when it does burst into flame it doesn't burn itself out before you get a chance to light a fire with it. A bit of experience in differing conditions will give you a feel for it, I like to try to light something about the size of a five to ten millimetre length of a pencil.

Other things (e.g. how sunny it is) being equal, the amount of heat you get is proportional to the area of the magnifying glass, so the bigger the the glass better. If it's TWICE as big across you get FOUR times the heat. If it's THREE times as big you get NINE times the heat, and so on.

The "magnification" is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many times it says the magnifier magnifies, pretty much all that changes with the magnification is the focus distance. You might even be better off with a slightly longer focal length (lower magnification) because you won't have to hold it so close to the fuel, so your glass might not get so smoky, and you'll also be able to see what's happening that bit easier.

It DOES matter however about the quality of the lens or mirror. For a given size of glass, you heat up a small spot hotter than you heat a large spot. Some of the cheap Chinese glasses (well, often plastics) are of very poor quality and you can't easily get a very small spot with them, although if the sun is strong enough they will still be good enough. Jeweller's loupes and linen testers are usually pretty good optically but it pays to check. Look through it at something like graph paper, if the lines look all wriggly go elsewhere for your optics. But a loupe is usually very small, and while it might work in strong sun it might not be so effective if it's hazy.

So much for putting heat in.

You also have to let as little heat out as you can. I try to arrange that whatever I'm lighting sits on an insulating surface and I'm aiming the spot on something which you can imagine as the inside corner of an insulated box which has had three sides removed. The insulation can be fuel material like wood or paper. That way some of the heat which inevitably escapes while you're working on it will heat the sides of the box near to the spot, and some of that heat will be reflected back into the corner. You can make a hole or a depression in the fuel, or use a short section of wooden tube with a bung at one end, anything that comes to hand. The shape doesn't really matter as long as you keep as much of your hard-earned heat as possible from escaping. Whatever gives you a small, sheltered spot to heat will do. Little rectangular blocks work fine for me. Even if the fuel is wet, you can dry it out if you're patient and you have enough heat input.

If you do have to blow, blow gently. :)
 
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caliban

Need to contact Admin...
Apr 16, 2008
372
0
edinburgh
Great thread! I've just tried the lens and charcloth thing. It's pretty amazing to watch that stuff go up in about five seconds. I'm using an old telescope lens with a silvered edge ,cos it looks "mountain man" but the fresnel lens seems to be the way to go. I'm trying the coke can thing right now too. These "alternative" firelighting skills might not be too practical, but it's good to have as many tricks up your sleeve as possible.
 

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