Lowest Form

[drstrange]

I do wonder wether there are people on this fora who are more interested in the amount of rep they collect, and in promoting themselves as the source of all fairness and wisdom amongst the 'bushcraft community', than saying how they actually feel. And people who publicly state when they are giving rep to other people, is that realy neccessary? It all seems a bit like grovelling to those with percieved status to me and quite frankly draws unheathy attention and attributes too much importance to the rep point system in general. If we are going to be judged on how much rep we have then its no wonder that newer members get put off. Also, I hardly think that pointing out the faults of others is a case for reputation, can you imagine how society would be if our merits were all based on the faliures of others (oh dear, just like the society we live in, no wonder its such a mess)

Over-considering ones words to the point of sterility is almost as counter-productive as being down-right rude. Sarcasm is only the lowest form of wit in the hands of the less skillfull artiste or in the eyes of those who would believe that the use of cliche is any better. There are cliches for everything if we want to use them, one from a very famous book of sense states: "He who takes offence is a fool".

And if it is only one or two people as stated in the header, is it really worth grandstanding a whole thread about (wouldn't it be better to drop them a polite PM if you and they know who they are?)

I've seen people get very upset on these fora over issues that would'nt even make a dent in your average pub-table chat, it realy is quite amazing to watch this forum sometimes, one can almost predict which posts are going to cause needless agro (this one no doubt) just because people identify themselves by, and cling so desparatley to, their own opinions, and feel the need to attack anyone who challenges the way they think.

One point which was highlighted in an earlier post in this thread is very appropriate, the one about old forums becomming clubby, cliqey and the like. I find this to be true about this forum to a degree, there is a lot of 'in joking' and 'club code' and I think that a little agitation can be usefull to keep the custard from skinning.

Personally I am well aware of my own faults, sometimes I go over the boundary, sometimes I don't, I don't know about anyone else on here but I am far from perfect and generally flawed, even damaged. But I think my posts generally represent me, good and bad, wether I get rep or not I'd rather keep it this way than project a false imression of myself that I would find difficult or disingenuos to maintan.

 

[Tony]

Amazing

 

[BorderReiver]

Well now drstrange,I think you may be missing the point of internet fora.

They are a distraction;an entertainment;a bit of light relief in an otherwise frantic world in which most people take themselves too seriously.

This forum is entertaining,informative and most of the time harmonious.

There must be fora for folks who like to argue the toss and give vent to their philosophies;this is not one of them.
Perhaps you would happier if you looked around and found a site that suited your confrontational approach.

I personally find it tedious;but that's my problem and I'll have to come to terms with it.

 

[Klenchblaize]

More than happy to apply the one (1) hour after the last coffee posting rule if it helps?!

Cheers

 

[BorderReiver]

More than happy to apply the one (1) hour after the last coffee posting rule if it helps?!

Cheers

IMO it's the one hour after the last alcoholic beverage that causes some of the bother.

Does it for me sometimes.

 

[Wayland]

I do wonder wether there are people on this fora who are more interested in the amount of rep they collect, and in promoting themselves as the source of all fairness and wisdom amongst the 'bushcraft community', than saying how they actually feel. And people who publicly state when they are giving rep to other people, is that realy neccessary? It all seems a bit like grovelling to those with percieved status to me and quite frankly draws unheathy attention and attributes too much importance to the rep point system in general. If we are going to be judged on how much rep we have then its no wonder that newer members get put off. Also, I hardly think that pointing out the faults of others is a case for reputation, can you imagine how society would be if our merits were all based on the faliures of others (oh dear, just like the society we live in, no wonder its such a mess)

Over-considering ones words to the point of sterility is almost as counter-productive as being down-right rude. Sarcasm is only the lowest form of wit in the hands of the less skillfull artiste or in the eyes of those who would believe that the use of cliche is any better. There are cliches for everything if we want to use them, one from a very famous book of sense states: "He who takes offence is a fool".

And if it is only one or two people as stated in the header, is it really worth grandstanding a whole thread about (wouldn't it be better to drop them a polite PM if you and they know who they are?)

I've seen people get very upset on these fora over issues that would'nt even make a dent in your average pub-table chat, it realy is quite amazing to watch this forum sometimes, one can almost predict which posts are going to cause needless agro (this one no doubt) just because people identify themselves by, and cling so desparatley to, their own opinions, and feel the need to attack anyone who challenges the way they think.

One point which was highlighted in an earlier post in this thread is very appropriate, the one about old forums becomming clubby, cliqey and the like. I find this to be true about this forum to a degree, there is a lot of 'in joking' and 'club code' and I think that a little agitation can be usefull to keep the custard from skinning.

Personally I am well aware of my own faults, sometimes I go over the boundary, sometimes I don't, I don't know about anyone else on here but I am far from perfect and generally flawed, even damaged. But I think my posts generally represent me, good and bad, wether I get rep or not I'd rather keep it this way than project a false imression of myself that I would find difficult or disingenuos to maintan.

Ok, I guess some of that is aimed at me so I’ll say “what I actually feel” for you.

Firstly I have never sought “reputation” I already have a reputation amongst people that know me that is far more important to me than any point system could ever be. Do I think “rep points” are important? Not particularly, but they do allow some people to indicate approval or disapproval in a way that does not bog the whole system down.

As for grovelling I can’t conceive why anyone would grovel to me anyway. I have nothing to give, no power to offer.

Pointing out the faults of others? It seems to me you did that all on your own. You obviously failed to comprehend the point of the thread and posted without thinking, as evidenced by your editing of your posts, three times by my count.

I use the edit button myself on occasion to correct the odd spelling but that’s about it. For you it seems to be an addiction. Perhaps it serves some need we cannot understand but it seems to me that it is more about your need to seem “strange”.

The source of all fairness and wisdom

That’s an interesting one, anyone that knows me would laugh at that. If I have anything to offer it is my experience of working with 6000 primary children a year. Surprisingly their behaviour is remarkably similar to some of the supposedly mature adults that post contentious and offensive material on this site. Odd that, but I guess we only have the members word about age and the like on the internet.

Sarcasm is only the lowest form of wit in the hands of the less skillfull artiste

I presume you are referring to yourself here. Well perhaps I am not qualified to judge but I prefer not to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

If it is only one or two people as stated in the header, is it really worth grandstanding a whole thread about (wouldn't it be better to drop them a polite PM if you and they know who they are?)

The problem with PMs is that they often end up getting far from polite replies. As to who they are it is interesting that certain names from the forum often get cited as "irritating" around the camp fires at meet ups with no prompting at all. Some soon get the message and leave or are banned, others mature into valued members with time. We live in hope.

Over-considering ones words to the point of sterility is almost as counter-productive as being down-right rude.

We have the right of free speech in this country and I for one value it greatly. Voltair is often credited with saying “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”. It seems there is some doubt about the voracity of that credit now but it is interesting that actually no society, either now or in history has every allowed free speech without due responsibility.

In this country there are many things that you cannot say. You cannot incite to murder, you cannot promote child pornography and various discrimination laws prescribe what you can and cannot say. We also have laws about Libel and Slander. In general most people would agree that this is a good thing.

This forum is a society of sorts too and one that allows a great deal of free speech but there are also rules within this society some of which are written down and some that are rather more nebulous.

I posted this thread because I have noticed a change in the wind of late. It could have just been my own perception, but the many favourable comments I have received both in this thread and by private message lead me to think that I am not deluded.

There have been a few people posting lately, most of us know who they are, who in my opinion are more interested in contention than harmony.

I guess you just have to decide which side of that fence you wish to stand on.

 

[mark a.]

Good post Wayland. Another option is to not feed the troll. There's also the wonders of the "Ignore" lists.

 

[Wayland]

Another option is to not feed the troll.

I guess I've been brought up on too many Norwegian folk tales, I always hope that the Troll can be redeemed in some way.

 

[Seagull]

AY yoy yoy! It just saddens me , to see all this.

Some bright spark said, years ago, something to the effect that it was inevitable for all mankind to plunge into conflict.
Well, thats one outlook.

Would that I were gifted with reason and the ability to make convincing statement.

But I am not and can not.

And it seems to me that this thread is not adding to anyones well being, and I feel it isnt worthy of any of us. So, can someone see their way to locking it.

In the hope that , it is not contentious to even suggest that....

rgds all

Ceeg....

 

[Tony]

It amazes me how this can have turned contentious. It’s telling how some people say “fair point, I do that now and then, I’ll be more conscious of it in future” and others start to point fingers and cause agro, I just don’t get it. It’s a very straight forward thread, well it was.

I feel like closing the thread down because it’s causing the problems that it’s trying to address and I think resolve. That would seem to be unfair of me though especially when the vast majority of the issues are caused by you DrS, I don’t understand why you continue to attack what people say, as well as the people that say it. If you have issues then learn a tactful way of expressing them or do not, up to you. But stop having a go at people on here and stop implying motives and reasoning to what they do and say. I think that there are many forums that would welcome you and your posts, I for one and starting to find them hard work. I’ve no problem with strong opinions, or contentious subjects, or even the people that have them and express them, but the manner in which it is all carried out makes a huge difference and that’s definitely the issue here.

Bottom line, stop being obnoxious and argumentative, if you’ve an opinion voice it but don’t attack people. If you don’t it might be better to find somewhere else to post where they don’t mind, because I very much do.

Same for anyone else that's not happy getting on here.

 

[Pignut]

good point.

I find that if I feel like making a tongue in cheek or well intentioned bit of sarcasm the:



smiley helps to stop tjhings been taken the wrong way.

On this tack there is only one smiley that fits this thread..................

 

[drstrange]

I think this thread was always going to be my departure point (some are very suprised that I'm still here as it is!), it is kind of a shame, but thats the way things go, sometimes you just can't help who you are.

Although I'm well aware that a whole bunch of people can't wait to see the back of me, those who still want to stay in contact with me can drop me a PM or e-mail after I have withdrawn (I would apprecite it if my profile were kept alive for a little while longer so that can be done, I won't be posting anymore).

Overall I think this is an informative forum and I'm sure that a lot of people will find it usefull to connect with and learn from the many people and accumulated knowledge here.

In hindsight, the handle Drstrange was kind of provocative, I'm not a doctor after all, and even if I could be accused of being slighlty strange, the people who realy know me know that I'm not pretentious, for what its worth.

I just want people to know that I have held very many people here, even the ones who would take offence to my style, in much higher regard, and have afforded them more respect than things would appear. I don't hate anyone here, I just wish I could have met more of you face to face and spent some quality time getting to know people properly, things might have been different if that had been the case.

Wayland, your reply was worthy of note and should go down in the Sagas that are so obviously close to your heart.

Tony, thanks for not banning me earlier.

You are so very right, this forum is not for me.

Farewell.

 

[Tony]

I hope that things go well for you, pop in and say hi now and then

 

[Silverback]

Still a relative newbie myself but I think the wonders of modern technology are partly to blame here. Many of us would agree that the advent of the internet is truly a wonderous thing in terms of knowlege now available at our fingertips however it brought with it the evil demons known as email and messaging. The big problem with a typed message is it carries no emotion or expression with it and leaves the reader to make up their own mind. We all know there are about 10 different ways to tell someone to clear off verbally (or words to that effect ) however there is only one way to write it. I think this is an excellent forum but I do tend to steer clear of the emotive topics as I think they are better discussed around the campfire.

 

[locum76]

More than happy to apply the one (1) hour after the last coffee posting rule if it helps?!

Cheers

this would help me at least.

 

[useless]

I think I might be an example of the majority of th membership here. I don't often have much to say, because I don't think I know much about this stuff. I call in every now and then, pick up a thread that interests, or even excites me (it happens, I don't get out much) and might watch that closely for a while.

I can see some of you are worried about cheesing people off. I must say that I find this place quite amazing. It is almost always friendly (I can't quite recall any unfriendly exchanges, present thread excepted!). Almost always informative. DOn't worry too much about it! On the whole...

:You_Rock_

(I love that emoticon!)


So, thanks people. I'd give you all a rep' point, but now I've said it, it'd spoil the surprise!

 

[Wayland]

I'm sorry this thread has caused someone to leave, that was never my intention.

drstrange, if you read this, I doubt if anyone here really wishes to "see the back of you" as you put it. Personally I have enjoyed some of the threads that you have started and participated in. Farewell.

My call was only for a degree of consideration to other members before posting on occasion. Something which I know I need to think of too sometimes.

It has however highlighted the delicate balance that makes this forum such a special place for most of us.

As I posted above. Let's try and keep it friendly.....

 

[pibbleb]

I've found this thread rather refreshing and it's been nice, if that's the right word, express my own concerns so articulately, so thanks to Wayland for that.

I was a little shocked by the tone of some the threads and posts I'd read over the weekend and it set me a thinking about my own approach to threads and posts.

On reflection, I wonder how some of my posts have been received, I'm not looking for feedback, but I read some posts and I am amazed at how articulate some of you are on this forum. Not being a word smith myself I sometimes feel that my responses can come across as if written by a fumbling moron, again no feedback necessary , and it concerns me that my search for the right words could cause offence and if this has happened or happens I apologise.

I share the sentiment of Useless about this forum, and I have amazed been amazed by the friendship extended by those on this to me, a mere stranger among an ever growing membership of people far more dedicated to this than myself.

Personally, I think it has been good to re-visit this issue again and discussing what will, I'm afraid, be an ever present problem that will from time to time force it's self to the fore-front.

Finally, I guess we can all be guilty of having bad days and or off moments where we perhaps don't realise that we've over stepped the mark or if we are honest have over stepped the mark because of feeling out of sorts. The Mod's particularly Toddy and Leon, no offence to any other mod's just these two spring to mind having had dealings but in a good way , have been great at gently pointing out the odd hick up here and their.

Anyway, not sure whether this post was worth the space but I feel better for it.

Cheers guys, one and all!


Pib