Loch Lomond Ban to be extended?

[Pandabean]

Just saw the following article on the BBC News about the Loch Lomond ban and the possibilities of that being extended to 5 other lochs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-14771920

Loch Lomond National Park will use a camping and alcohol ban on east Lomondside as a model to tackle problems around five other lochs. But what difficulties does it face finding the right solution

Understandably its the minority that ruin it for the rest. I'm sure if you implement more bans that is just going to push those people further a field and cause issues elsewhere.

How do the likes of Sweden and that cope with people like this where you actually have that freedom to wild camp?

Could this be the start of the end of wild camping?

 

[udamiano]

Really sad,

I've been around there and its really beautiful, and to think a few have ruined it for all

sad really sad.

 

[mountainm]

I'd be up for a licence to wild camp, like a fishing licence. You ring the a number and give them notice, giving your licence number - money from the licence fee goes towards administrating the system. Not sure how easy it is to police though.

 

[Jock]

I'd hate to have to buy a license to wild camp
I give the government enough money as is & I think that the country is already over regulated
Individual freedom seems to be more & more under attack.

I acknowledge that litter & destruction is an issue that needs to be addressed
More/ continued education for children in schools? (They already seem to cover environmental issues )

Vandals= Bring back the birch (never happen unfortunately)

 

[Toddy]

We didn't think it was going to work


It's sheer pressure of numbers, and as a national disgrace the litter culture is out of control.

No other site with so many visitors has so little infrastructure in place to clean up behind the the crowds.

The only way to change it is education, and accept that whether it's 'wilderness' or not, it needs a regular bin lorry route and clear up team. It could do with defined camping/fire sites, and someone could make a wee mint selling bags of logs.

The litter from the fishermen means that they have no right to, ' holier than thou', either. I've cleared up miles of their damned lines and hooks, and beer cans too, from sites they've trashed. The litter culture isn't confined to the campers.

It's not right, it's not how we would like things to be, it doesn't sit well with the majority of us, but it's the reality of the situation.
We live in a, 'disposable everything, leave it for someone else to clean up', bit of the world.

If a site is in easy travelling distance from a conurbation, if they can pull off the road and have a fire and get rat ar$ed really nearby, there're always the cretins who will.

Maybe an all night outdoor pub and grub with big open fires would be a better attraction for them ?

cheers,
M

 

[Ex member - Bilgerat]

I'd be up for a licence to wild camp, like a fishing licence. You ring the a number and give them notice, giving your licence number - money from the licence fee goes towards administrating the system. Not sure how easy it is to police though.

Oh yeah I can see that really working....... not.....

Then the illegal wild campers wont pay...... And the ones wiv Licences will still dump all there untraceable stuff in the bushes....

Strewth wot next a license to walk on the pavement?

 

[mountainm]

Oh yeah I can see that really working....... not.....

Then the illegal wild campers wont pay...... And the ones wiv Licences will still dump all there untraceable stuff in the bushes....

Strewth wot next a license to walk on the pavement?

Well I'd prefer to pay a licence to wild camp in England than no option at all which is what we currently have. Allowing people to wild camp has an environmental impact even if you are the most responsible of campers. The licence fee would go someway toward repairing footpaths, walls, maintaining carparks etc.

 

[Pandabean]

Whilst travelling to work and back I have heard a few radio adverts no about the Scottish Outdoor Code and being responsible for the landscape. So they are trying to do something other than arranging bans, however I fear that its not really enough and don't think many will actually bother taking in what they are saying, especially those intent on going out and not wanting to clean up after themselves.

Im not really too sure if a licence scheme would work, people will just go around about it and for up here that may end up giving some power back to the land-owners.
The defined camp sites idea that Mary mentioned could be a better way forward, rather than making like a campsite, perhaps be a bit more wildernessy and have it in some wooded area that is properly managed with wood and supplies close to hand.

its interesting to see the two extremes on either side of the border and how both have their problems. Surely in England, where there are rules against wild-camping, there are still trouble spots almost showing that an outright ban isn't the best way to approach this.

 

[Paul_B]

The trouble is the responsible people who camp out are the minority in society. Most people in the UK don't actually go out into the countryside that much. THey just don't see the point as there is nothing to do there. Those that do are just as likely to leave a mess as not. Those who go out, wildcamp and leave minimal mess after themselves are strictly in the minority. There are lots of daywalkers but camping out wild is not that common so we are really the minority of the population. With that in mind a licence would not work as it probably would not raise enough money to clear up after people. Bear in mind the day walkers who go up to the popular camp spots and leave nappies on the edge of a tarn or who leave cans of juice cartons where they stop for lunch. All that would have to be cleared up as how can you tell which is wildcampers and which are daywalkers who have no licence.

Its also the case people won't pay and noone will be employed to police it in enough areas. Heck the United Utilities caprparks around Thirlmere don't even have their meters checked and emptied that often and that is a money earner not cost so who's gonna pay for a warden to police a licence. Unworkable like the bans IMHO.

The only solution is to leave the popular areas to the neds and let them trash it. Head further up to the hills and enjoy yourself with the quiet and peace without drunken yobs (except if those are in your group and you are one of them of course).

 

[widu13]

I wildcamped in Scotland around the lochs about 20 years ago- it was fantastic.

I've just come back from a 3 week trip inc Loch Lomond and Loch Ness and I can honestly say I was staggered at the amount of human excrement and tissue paper lying around uncovered. I'm sure it was coincidental, but much of the fresh stuff was near to current encampments of people who appeared to be from Eastern Europe.

Why on earth do people carry on like that? It's beyond me.

 

[Nonsuch]

I'm not surprised about Loch Earn coming up on a next target list. The behaviour of some of the maggots who camp there is appalling. I have actually been shot at with an air rifle by a group of boozed-up "anglers" while paddling past. I wouldn't mind a total camping ban on the loch with the police cruising past at 11am each night to round up offenders. I am sure Ardvorlich and the other estates who have to suffer the associated problems would be relieved and happy.

You can still find pristine wild camp spots on Scottish Lochs. You just have to go to remoter spots that are not beside a road.

 

[Highbinder]

I think it's an easy way out to the problem. I'd much rather see the police doing a daily pass along the beachs on Lomand. End of the day MOST of the damage are in the areas easily accessable by car, the areas around the carparks, parkable laybys, and around rowardennan, it wouldn't take much time to check each spot each evening. In the summer months there are plenty of police cars that go up and down the road booking people for parking in a clearway . Why can't they just get out of their cars and hit the regular camping spots to make sure anyone camping is responsible? Or even have the local foresty commission chaps do the patrolling and report back to the police if there are any groups that should be moved on.

I love the area, whenever I only had time for a one night getaway I'd drive to Rowardennan and hike from there as it's so accessable, and an enjoyable drive from Glasgow (except going through Beardsen during rush hour argh) Unfortunately Loch Lomand truely is 'Glasgows' Loch', and I've met some real weegie scum whilst out hiking/camping in the area. Bottom line is ban of camping, IMO, is not going to stop people camping.

 

[Shewie]

Loch Earn is a place I'll only visit once, until the fisherman and car camping neds are sorted out somehow then I can't see it getting any better.

I've no idea what the solution is but it's a sad state of affairs when folk drive for miles to visit somewhere scenic and then trash the place.

 

[Harvestman]

The trouble with other people is that they exist.

 

[stuart f]

What we need is more public education. This was the sort of thing we used to get when i was a lad,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFlJFlLkgK0&feature=related,
the goverment need to start remaking these sort of public info films,and get them mainstream.

If people are not exposed to this sort of thing,which has happened over the last couple of generations,then how are they mean't to know how to behave whilst out,whether fishing or camping.

It common sense really,which is seriously amiss nowadays.

Cheers Stuart.

 

[Bacoben]

Yup, it does just seem to get out of hand...at the end of the day it just boils down to respect.

 

[Robbi]

Yup, it does just seem to get out of hand...at the end of the day it just boils down to respect.

and fear......people don't fear anything these days, they don't fear the policeman, just tell him to eff off, don't fear the ranger, don't fear the courts, don't fear teachers, don't fear their elders........no fear of any type of punishment.

rant over.

 

[Doc]

When the Lomond camping ban came in, there was concern it would displace the problem to Lubnaig, Earn and other Trossach lochs.

I echo Nonsuch's comments about Loch Earn. It is cursed by having a road alongside almost the entire shore. Most of the folk camping there are fine, but there is a large minority who wreck the place, there is a serious rubbish problem, fire scars everywhere, people arrested for anti-social behaviour, living trees hacked for firewood, fires lit against living trees, etc, etc. I have a season ticket for fishing there but I avoid the place at weekends.

Access rights covering camping are wonderful, and give a terrific sense of freedom. Away from the roads there is very little problem, apart from a few hotspots.

What really saddens me about car camping is the reluctance to put boot on rock. It is not a wilderness experience when your tent is six foot from the asphalt.

 

[Highbinder]

When the Lomond camping ban came in, there was concern it would displace the problem to Lubnaig, Earn and other Trossach lochs.

I echo Nonsuch's comments about Loch Earn. It is cursed by having a road alongside almost the entire shore. Most of the folk camping there are fine, but there is a large minority who wreck the place, there is a serious rubbish problem, fire scars everywhere, people arrested for anti-social behaviour, living trees hacked for firewood, fires lit against living trees, etc, etc. I have a season ticket for fishing there but I avoid the place at weekends.

Access rights covering camping are wonderful, and give a terrific sense of freedom. Away from the roads there is very little problem, apart from a few hotspots.

What really saddens me about car camping is the reluctance to put boot on rock. It is not a wilderness experience when your tent is six foot from the asphalt.

It's hard to hike carrying a crate of Tennants, I guess. :/

 

[filcon]

The law is needing to be implemented quick before we lose everything, the louts have moved from loch lomond to new haunts like loch earn east bank.
The locals can,t even sell their homes because of the bad name the area has now got, rubbish and human waste everywhere.
If things don,t improve I can see Scotland adopting Northern Irelands new crap camping law (not allowed to stay at overnight) in certain areas.
Has anyone actually witnessed a yob actually doing any community service. I have only seen a bunch of so called community service yobs on a jolly in a minibus on a day out to the park, acting cool with their massive 6 stone frame and badass attitude.
I personally would have them lifting litter everywhere, motorways the lot and I wouldn,t give them a luminous safety vest either.
After all not wanting to infringe their human rights and embaress them for being SCUM.

phil