Legalities when treating a casualty

[Genty]

For those who may be interested, I have put together an article summarising the legal status of a someone who provides First Aid to a casualty.

Some of the posts here have brought up questions of where we stand if treating a casualty, especially when considering advanced techniques like Haemostats (Quick Clot etc), Tourniquets or suturing.

Even if just providing simple First Aid, there is - understandably - concern regarding litigation.

When we treat ourselves we can pretty much do what we wan (as long as we accept the responsibility) and when out in the bush with friends there is often an understanding that we might stray from the strict training guidelines if a more expedient or effective method can be used.

When we are responsible for a group or we happen upon a casualty, things are very different.


There is a lot of common sense on this forum and don't feel I am telling anyone what t do but as a general guide, there are two things that need to be pointed out:

1. No one in the UK has ever been sucessfully sued for giving life saving First Aid to a casualty.
2. There is no law that forces anyone to 'rescue' another person or become involved in their treatment (provided they were not the cause!).

In very general terms, a person who offers life saving assistance is protected from litigation if:

• They are willing and able to provide assistance and
• To the standard to which they have been trained and
• Their actions are in the best interest of the casualty

I have written an article on this in more detail here:

Duty of Care & The Law

Possibly not the best reading choice for a Friday evening when you are settling down to watch the game but it is there if you would like more information on this complex topic.

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

:bigthumbsup:

General terms are spot on Genty and in keeping with a lot of advice thats already been given.

Yes folks, it's as simple as that......

 

[Bluemerle]

Hooray for some straight talking common sense! Thanks Genty.

 

[Laurentius]

I'm not a trained first aider, but I do worry sometimes with what I see. The other day I was in the middle of town and I saw an old lady slip and fall, I was too far away to do anything but I witnessed the sundry people around tug her back up again grabbing her by the wrists and arms.

As someone who was experienced in lifting disabled people, they were going about it in completely the wrong way, with possibly dangerous consequences not only to the unfortunate victim but themselves.

 

[maddave]

I'd hate it to get like some countries. I was in Germany many years back and watched in horror as people just walked by a man who had collapsed. Upon questioning people I found that most thought "It wasn't worth the risk of getting sued". I think there should be less litigation in the world and the law should have a "common sense" clause. I'm sorry sir you can't sue black and decker because you ripped your nose off whilst trying to itch it with a power drill... It's common sense not to !! NEXT CASE. Sorry madam.. Letting your child play unsupervised on a busy road is DANGEROUS and stupid on your part!! NEXT CASE....A few of these and our insurance premiums might start to get cheaper

 

[Genty]

Thankfully, the UK has - in my inexperienced opinion - a very good legal system based largely on common sense, certainly comjpared to other contries.

I haven't heard any news in it for a while but Lord Young was reviewing Health & Safety laws, as I understand it, to make people more accountable for their own actions and take more responsibilty, to make it harder for these rediculous 'I fell off my ladder and got £7,000' cases you hear about.

The legal system isn't perfect but it is the only one we have and could be far worse!

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

Thankfully, the UK has - in my inexperienced opinion - a very good legal system based largely on common sense, certainly comjpared to other contries.

I haven't heard any news in it for a while but Lord Young was reviewing Health & Safety laws, as I understand it, to make people more accountable for their own actions and take more responsibilty, to make it harder for these rediculous 'I fell off my ladder and got £7,000' cases you hear about.

The legal system isn't perfect but it is the only one we have and could be far worse!

I may be wrong (I accept it's happened before ) but I'm pretty sure that there have been no successful cases brought against a first aider in the states either. And that's saying something.

 

[Kerne]

Thankfully, the UK has - in my inexperienced opinion - a very good legal system based largely on common sense, certainly comjpared to other contries.

I haven't heard any news in it for a while but Lord Young was reviewing Health & Safety laws, as I understand it, to make people more accountable for their own actions and take more responsibilty, to make it harder for these rediculous 'I fell off my ladder and got £7,000' cases you hear about.

The legal system isn't perfect but it is the only one we have and could be far worse!

I agree. And this applies to H&S in this country as well - while the press often revels in "H&S gone made" stories, there are, in fact, very few successful litigations for breaches of the more outlandish regulations.

As a first aider who regularly deals with injured children (DT teacher: oh those pesky chisels!). I always make sure there is another adult present when I administer first aid. Paranoia probably as I have never had anything other than gratitude from the parents concerned.

 

[rik_uk3]

Don't use quick clot and don't go stitching, you are pretty much out of your depth if you do and can do more harm than good. Direct pressure will do the job and call for help.

Way too many wannabe paramedics out in the woods already so learn the basics and above all else practise the basics.

Its not a complex topic in reality, whilst Duty Of Care is an interesting topic and very poignant to medical professionals, you won't get sued and don't help if you don't want to; above all know your limitations.

 

[woof]

Don't use quick clot and don't go stitching, you are pretty much out of your depth if you do and can do more harm than good. Direct pressure will do the job and call for help.

Way too many wannabe paramedics out in the woods already so learn the basics and above all else practise the basics.

Its not a complex topic in reality, whilst Duty Of Care is an interesting topic and very poignant to medical professionals, you won't get sued and don't help if you don't want to; above all know your limitations.

Good points rik, and well put.

Rob

 

[xylaria]

When i was teenager my brother who was 17 at the time gave CPR to an elderly neighbor that collapsed one morning. She was very small framed and had quite hump to her spine [imagine gillian mckieth in 30 years]. When the ambulancemen turned up my brother said he felt two cracks when resuscitating her. She lived another few hours in hospital. The paramedic rang the house that evening and said not worry, what he did was give her family enough time to say goodbye, and that the broken ribs [there was 3 at time of death] are a normal effect of cpr, they could of done most of them and not to feel guilty.

I would worry about getting sued in the same situation today, but i would do it anyway.

 

[Sniper]

Nice one Genty, that lays it out in a fairly clear and concise manner, never be frightened to try and help an injured person, just use common sense, any training you may have no matter how out of date, anything is quite often better than nothing. Lastly if you don't have any training think about doing some, it'll never go wrong ( a little knowledge can go a long way). I might be doing some first aid training for folks at a Comriecroft meet at some time this year if all goes well. If it's manageable for you to get there why not think about it (date & time still TBC)

 

[Loenja]

thanks a lot thats great to know

 

[Minotaur]

I may be wrong (I accept it's happened before ) but I'm pretty sure that there have been no successful cases brought against a first aider in the states either. And that's saying something.

Might be about to join you

I do not think they have first aiders as we think of them, or maybe as we use them. Bet someone been done in the states.

They actually have a better set up, they allow a lot more cross training than us. Also it not that hard to get to a higher level.

Practice, and training - the big things. Our understanding changes so what you do changes. CPR is always evolving.

The big thing the government should do is sort the resposability issue in black and white.

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

Might be about to join you

I do not think they have first aiders as we think of them, or maybe as we use them. Bet someone been done in the states.

They actually have a better set up, they allow a lot more cross training than us. Also it not that hard to get to a higher level.

Practice, and training - the big things. Our understanding changes so what you do changes. CPR is always evolving.

The big thing the government should do is sort the resposability issue in black and white.

In fairness the LAST people I want to sort out responsibility issues is the government!!

 

[Minotaur]

Have you had a look at this - Review - Advanced Medicine For Remote Foreign Travel course

Would love to know the legalities in this.

The big thing for me, was lack of BASIC's. Pre-Hospital care that does not mention the standard worries me.

Also there a thing about EMT's that does not ring true. While almost all Pre-Hospital care comes from America, we do not have their use of the term, but a qualification does exist, and is used by Private Ambulance firms, and event first aid firms. It sort of Super First Aid at work here.

Also they teach canulation, I am sure you need to perform so many a year to keep that, so how does that work?

 

[Genty]

I have never worked wih / for WMT so I can only offer an opinion.

Basic Skills
With many 'Advanced' training courses there is either an expectation or prerequisite that the candidate is confident in the basics to enable the course to get up to speed as quickly as possible and reduce time needed to go over basic skills.

Practically, the basics are refreshed on courses like this by building on the ABC and then adding in the additional skills. It is quite difficult to teach these skills without refering to where it fits into basic life support.


EMT
This is a moot point for training providers as courses are often sold as EMT qualifications or WEMT (Wilderness Emergency Medical Technician). EMT is not a 'protected title' like Paramedic so anyone can call themselves an EMT. Similallry there is not real qualification as there is no central awarding body. Most EMT courses in the UK are in-house certificates. The problem is that a) candidates can be mislead as to what they are recieving and b) there is no common framework so quality can vary wildly. The organisation in question - WMT - has one of the best reputations for remote medical training and that is what the customer should look for.

EMT is used because while the technicalities regarding the term are not always understood by the customer, people are generallya ware of the term and it is regarded as 'a higher level course' and then easy to search for. The US EMT-Basic course requires 180 hours of learning ( IIRC) plus work placements.


Canulation and Advanced Skills
Skills like these are taught for use abroad where necessity dictates - ie. where there is no professional care available. They are not transferable to any UK setting and a course like this is certainly not a license to treat in the UK. You are right, canulation skills need revalidating regulalrly by Healthcare Professional. WMT would (I assume) have spent a great deal of effort explaining the leaglities and contextual setting for the use of these skills.

Hope this helps

 

[FGYT]

When i was teenager my brother who was 17 at the time gave CPR to an elderly neighbor that collapsed one morning. She was very small framed and had quite hump to her spine [imagine gillian mckieth in 30 years]. When the ambulancemen turned up my brother said he felt two cracks when resuscitating her. She lived another few hours in hospital. The paramedic rang the house that evening and said not worry, what he did was give her family enough time to say goodbye, and that the broken ribs [there was 3 at time of death] are a normal effect of cpr, they could of done most of them and not to feel guilty.

I would worry about getting sued in the same situation today, but i would do it anyway.

remember back to the 1st aid training at school ( one afternoon in RE once )

advice was if they are over 25ish (cant rememebr the exact age but it was quiter young) if you dont break any ribs you probably not doing it hard enough to do much good anyway

done several other courses over the years and all point out that that there is a general Samaritan law if your trying to help you should be protected (with in what your trained etc )

and the opposite if some one refuses your help you cant help them or force 1st aid on them (advise was to keep an eye on them and if they pass out then help em )


ATB

Duncan

 

[FGYT]

Oh on 1st aid in schools IMO they should teach it as a regular weekly class for at least the last 3 yrs if not for all secondary school yrs lot more use than a lot of the rubbish they do now (our local has 30 + GCSE courses to choose )

 

[Genty]

Not wanting to confuse the issue or nitpick but there is no Good Samaritan Law in the UK. This is a bit of a myth. The opening post outlines the issue but the link to the article explains it in more detail.

Some countires such as the US have a Samritan Law to portect those who attempt treatment but that is because their laws place a greater duty to treat than we do here.

Good Samaritan Law

I'm not meaning to be anal but don't be fooled into thinking any law will protect you, your actions will.