Landrover or Landcruiser?

[Glosfisher]

You're right a Land Cruiser would've been better but a SWB version seems rarer than hen's teeth in this country, although any number of them just over the channel.

G-wagens are still going. Daimler-Chrysler make them in batches now. Our local farrier has one. Problem is they're constant AWD with a fuel consumption of less than 20 mpg.

Currently I'm trying to convince the management of the wisdom of purchasing a Pinzgauer - only £60k for the basic model and made in Guildford these days. Wishful thinking.....

 

[British Red]

Bert,

I would love some more details on that rig pretty please?

Like - who snorked it for you, is it a king cab, Who did the "truckman top" etc. Looks ideal for a project I have in mind

Red

 

[Bimble]

For what it’s worth, which I suppose is very little, here’s my t’pence worth;
My brother in law is a wildlife photographer and artist in South Africa and drives a 2.5 non-turbo diesel Land Cruiser, he swears by them.
I spent time with a guide in the Okavango in Botswana who loved his TD5 to bits! (He was a ‘real local’ and had been driving 4x4 for over 25 years continually; he had never driven in a town or owned a licence!!! Come to think of it I don’t think he owned any shoes.....)
I got a lift from a guy is Jamatland last June and he would touch nothing but Landrover’s, though he freely admitted to seriously up grading the heating system for the Swedish Winter. (The current one he was driving had been on its roof/roll cage twice in its life, I suspect that was why he liked it so much as he was still walking and talking.)
I have another mate who races custom Landis, no point asking his opinion ‘cus he is unashamedly bias. He reckons the best 4x4 concept ever was the original Range Rover, till the Chelsea farmers got hold of them.
I have owned for 12 year, and driven every day, a Nissan D21 4x4 pickup and it has never gone wrong once, even with 140K on the clock and very irregular servicing for the last 5 years.
My uncle had Hi-Lux on his farm and stated, in his opinion, they were more practical for dairy farmers than landrovers.
The point is this, vehicles are a lot like women, when you have had a certain good experience with one; they become your ‘type’. (You also remember your first one with ‘rose tinted glasses’, even if she turned out subsequently to be a bitch.) You also tend to forget all the ones in between the first and your current one, or is that just me?
I doubt, given the state of modern automotive technology, that you could buy a complete lemon 4x4 nowadays. What’s much more important, excuse the pun is what you do with it!
If you keep the vehicle serviced properly and know how to drive it well, ( In my experience, having a 4x4 doesn’t mean you get stuck any less, I just get stuck in more remote places!) it will do the job. (Obviously this excludes all modern thin tired, alloy wheeled, urban insult SUV’s)
I still have a soft spot for Defenders thou, but hell I’m British!

 

[British Red]

snorkel is an Ozzie 'Safari' one - fairly straight forward to fit as supplied with a template- just don't slip when u cut the bodywork!! get that wrong and you'll end up with potential hydrau-lock if you go in water and on a diesel (worse than petrol engine) , that's no fun at all

Top is Truckman top- (made my Truckman!) very straight forward to fit but a few helping hands are needed as it is fairly heavy fibreglass-

Toyo is a Hilux 2.5 TDi single cab
Tyres = Michelin Synchrome 4x4 - very capable off road but mainly designed for road and tracks- Tarmac kills those 'specialist tyres' too quickly-


What project have you in mind Red?

Excellent - Thanks Bert.

I'll be retiring my Land Cruiser shortly and want to maintain a vehicle as a farm "haul anything" (large load), road capable, ocaasional bushcraft camper vehicle.

Do you two a braked trailer with it by any chance?

Red

 

[BorderReiver]

A mate of mine who has always driven Landrovers has just bought a Toyota.

Why?

He drives a car recovery vehicle for a living.

 

[Sniper]

I don't believe you can beat an older LR for reliability, strength, and off road capability.

Only the chassis rust and even they are easy to weld onto for extreme repairs.

Spartan interiors and no frills mean your not afraid of using and abusing it.

Even ancient ones have climate control, usually activated by undoing a couple of wingnuts and dropping the windscreen.

Most aid agencies prefer use LR simply cos it's up to the job and only use other models for financial reasons ie many are donation or sponsored vehicles.

No for me it would have to be the good old defender!

 

[JDO330]

Im a member of the local Land Rover club (although I own a Suzuki), the funny thing is that most of the guys with the tricked up 90's etc appear to tow them to events using either Nissan Patrols or Landcruisers?

The way I look at it is if you want to get into serious off roading (winch challenges, pay & play sites etc) then I guess the LR is the better option - especially as it would appear there are loads of retailers selling bolt on goodies like winches, lights, lift kits etc, etc.

However, the original post was about an expedition vehicle and to my mind that a whole different story. You might want to have a look at Frogs Island 4x4, they are a specialist company who prepare vehicle for expedition use (I think they prepared the vehicles for the TV series "long way down / round"). I think they will mod anything within reason but their vehicle of choice is a Landcruiser.

ATB, Jon.

 

[Martyn]

However, the original post was about an expedition vehicle and to my mind that a whole different story.

Times change. In days of yore, you main concern on an expedition was basically getting there in one piece. If it was 1958 and you were heading to the middle of Africa, you would look for a vehicle that was tough enough to do the job and simple enough to repair with minimal, non-specialst equipment ...that means a land rover 100% of the time.

Fifty years later, things are quite different. Land Rovers are still tough, but so are a lot of other vehicles. The main change is that technology has moved so far that vehicles can now be very sophisticated and very reliable. It doesnt matter if you cant repair it yourself so long as it doesnt break. Enter Toyota. This now means you can consider such luxuries as comfort.

Land Rovers still have a lot going for them, but who can blame someone for opting for a vehicle they dont need to mend, that doesnt break and is very comfortable? In fact if Toyota's weren't so damned ugly, I'd probably buy one meself.

 

[Edi_M]

some odd responses here. Had a 300 disco, build was poor but it never broke. Moved to nissan patrol 3.0 tdv6. Good build and never broke but it got stuck and got me 18mpg. And if u roll one the roof is not well supported. Now back in a disco, td5. 4 years and 65k miles, 35mpg and has not broken, build as good as the patrol and will cope with a roll. Late model commercials can be had for under 5k, just stay away from towbars and engine mods.
Know several former landcruiser owners having had woes. Landys are really not so bad!

 

[mortalmerlin]

Hmm, strange. Don't see my post here which went along the lines of;

We have had 3 disco's (200, 300 and td5) and will eventually get a series 3 one when the current TD5 gets to old. We do about 30k+ per year and haven't had any problems. Every time we start looking around for a new car we end up back with a discovery as it's the best blend of all the features we look for. It's not too big but has plenty of room inside, has 7 seats, it's good off-road, it's good on-road (a td5 with air suspension), it's not too tall >2m or too wide, you can drive it comfortably for hours on end (14 with only fuel stops is a norm for hols), it will pull anything you can sensibly attach to it and the parts are cheap.

Not sure why but many of the negative outpourings for land rover comes from down under. If your life depends on your car in one (flat dusty) environment does one brand out perform another? Probably. Does that mean the LC is better than the LR driving around on the UK or Europe? No.

 

[Nonimouse]

1). Toyota 'cruiser 80 series or 70 series

2). G wagon - LWB with 300GD or retrofitted 2.9litre 5 cylinder (from a Ssangyong)

3). Land Rover - Defender upto 300Tdi or Discofairy upto 300Tdi

G Wagons only drink fuel in petrol form and are very strong - parts are scarey though and rust is an issue
'Cruisers are thirsty, heavy but very strong; parts are scarey and do go wrong just not as often as LR, also 'cruisers are a PITA to work on
Discofairies disolve rather than rust but generally unless you drive like a plank all LR drive trains are okay. Defenders are suited for overlanding - especially 130's and 110's. Parts are cheap and easy to fit. TD5's are actually very reliable but particularly prone to poor fuel.

In 100's of 1000's of off road miles in the last 25 years I have found that most vehicles are more than capable, it is the driver that suites his or her choice and the driver that generally breaks his or her choice. Tuition is essential - BORDA, LANTRA, NPTC or Manufacturer it doesn't matter.

My choice? I have a 100" Defender. unique, SVA'd and Q plated, using the strongest forms of the LR drive train and a 200Tdi (the best engine IMHO), built from a shortened 110, it has many modifications and improvements, all based upon experience.


Other suggestions - VW T3 Syncro and the rare in the UK Pre '96 Double cab Hi-lux with the 3litr NA Diesel.

Hi-lux parts are easy to get in Africa as it is the third world troop carrier. The T3 Diesel just doesn't go wrong and will go anywhere

 

[johnnytheboy]

The toyotas a bomb proof, some really old cool ones in cyprus when i was on holiday, dunno who had the idea toyotas have cheap parts because they are not that cheap compared with other stuff out there on the market. The toyotas have some crazy ideas, try loosing a key and see how much that will cost you!!!!!!!!!!!

I just love the idea of driving the landys though, we have one of the monster truck type 90's in the workshop just now and its pretty cool, there is nothing like having to steer constantly as you go along the road in a straight line

Who mentioned pinzaguar, was on one in hawai'i what a cracking motor, as comfortable as a wolf but what a great we motor

 

[Bernie Garland]

well the gearbox went on our pajero and couldn't be bothered to sort it,but had 5 years good service out of it including a driven skiing trip to Andorra ,so on the lookout for another 4x4,after searching the net and reading various reviews,plumped for a ssangyong musso not a very good looker to some,but all the engine,gearbox and running gear is Mercedes 2.9 5 cylinder engine and returning 30+mpg,had it a couple of months now 2 Scotland trips three to Wales with the caravan on the back and canoe on the roofrack,and its never missed a beat just can't fault the motor and its a belter of road,with switchable 4 wheel drive high and low on the dash.

Bernie

 

[Jedadiah]

Landrover everytime. Mainly because i know my way around them. I could be convinced to try a Toyota, but i'd have to rip it to bit's to see how it goes back together again!

Here's a couple of my 'Company' cars!

 

[spamel]

Opened topped landies? No wonder those RAF boys wear so much brylcream!

 

[DKW]

I wouldn't take either. (allthough an older cruiser, aussie/african-export version Diesel would be fav. amongst those two makes (build to be servicable with 3 main tools)

I would if my money would allow it, go for mercedes GD 270 or 300. There is a reason why the danish army has been forced to retract all other 4WD vehicles in their arsenal, and send the GD to afghanistan instead.
The reason is simple: The GD don't break, and even the most stupid of a footsoldier is able to service it and maintain it in the field using only vehiclekit of tools.

Not to mention that it is one of the only that are still being build to customer-specs, and not according to standard, this means, if you want full (allmost 100&#37 manually operated diff-lock on both ends and across that can be operated during driving, you can get it.
If you wan't full manually operated 4wd L-H - 2WD L-H that can be switched between during driving at speed, then you can get it.
etc.

If the money is at hand, i'd go mercedes GD instead of everything else.

 

[Salix]

It's a 3 litre japanese import hi lux for me, as a work horse there was no question...........drove landy's for 10 years at work an hated em !
You cant even say your bein patriotic these days can you.............................

I am a tree surgeon, Countryside contractor and general landscaper so my double cab with truckman top is a true all purpose vehicle.

Damn fine kit............................

Mark

 

[Bernie Garland]

I wouldn't take either. (allthough an older cruiser, aussie/african-export version Diesel would be fav. amongst those two makes (build to be servicable with 3 main tools)

I would if my money would allow it, go for mercedes GD 270 or 300. There is a reason why the danish army has been forced to retract all other 4WD vehicles in their arsenal, and send the GD to afghanistan instead.
The reason is simple: The GD don't break, and even the most stupid of a footsoldier is able to service it and maintain it in the field using only vehiclekit of tools.

Not to mention that it is one of the only that are still being build to customer-specs, and not according to standard, this means, if you want full (allmost 100%) manually operated diff-lock on both ends and across that can be operated during driving, you can get it.
If you wan't full manually operated 4wd L-H - 2WD L-H that can be switched between during driving at speed, then you can get it.
etc.

If the money is at hand, i'd go mercedes GD instead of everything else.

Are these the same engines and box's in the ssanyong musso.?

Bernie

 

[DKW]

Are these the same engines and box's in the ssanyong musso.?

Bernie

Not to my knowledge.

Edit: The engine/gearbox is license-produced Mercedes, yes. But as written below: Outdated technology and nicely made almost-copies. I would not rely on being able to use mercedes parts on them, as factory-specs and tolerances aren't the same, nor are the parts themselves the same. (just thought it was good to add this bit)

Ssanyong do look like mercedes'es, lexus's, Toyotas and what have we not, but all german testing and reviews clearly say that they are far from "the real deal".
Nicely made almost-copies, with a bit of vintage-technology though. Otherwise they would not be so cheap.
(to be honest i wouldn't buy a Ssanyong, simply because it is made entirely using outdated technology in a new "wrapper" so to speak. One of their first 4WD failed every safety and reliability test it was put through in germany miserably, but that might have changed since then)

 

[Bernie Garland]

Not to my knowledge.

Ssanyong do look like mercedes'es, lexus's, Toyotas and what have we not, but all german testing and reviews clearly say that they are far from "the real deal".
Nicely made almost-copies, with a bit of vintage-technology though. Otherwise they would not be so cheap.
(to be honest i wouldn't buy a Ssanyong, simply because it is made entirely using outdated technology in a new "wrapper" so to speak. One of their first 4WD failed every security and reliability test it was put through in germany miserably, but that might have changed since then)

The ssangyong musso's are fitted with Mercedes 5 cylinder turbo engines and Mercedes gear box and 4x4 running gear and are 4x4 switch able in high/low on the move up to 40kph,

Bernie