Knife culture

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bigjackbrass

Nomad
Sep 1, 2003
497
34
Leeds
Most readers in the UK will have heard the shocking news about a boy being stabbed by a fellow pupil at school ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/3240873.stm should take you to the story on the BBC Website) and the talk in the media about the "knife culture" among many young people, boys especially.

Inevitably this sort of tragedy leads to a call for tighter regulations or even a ban on whatever tool is involved. Yet knives were, not so very long ago, considered an essential part of growing up for a boy, and the responsible use of a pocket knife was an important sign of maturity. Naturally this became less common in towns than in the countryside, and these days it can well be argued that there is no reason for a typical urban dweller to carry a knife at all. The truth is, we are rarely so far from a knife at home or a pair of scissors at the office that we simply cannot function without our own pocket knife.

Somewhere along the line something has gone rather awry with the way we teach kids about knives. Or do we indeed teach them at all? Now the knife is seen solely as a weapon, a way to threaten or harm, to gain power and advantage. Knives are not toys, nor should they be viewed only as a danger. They are simply tools, and like a chisel or saw they need to be used with thought and skill. These things have to be taught.

I noticed in another part of the forum a rather splendid little knife designed for children, an excellent way of reducing the risks inherent in learning how to use a knife without having the item become a toy. In learning how to use a potentially dangerous, but immensely useful, thing like a knife children gain confidence, and also an understanding of what the tool can really do if used to cause harm. I firmly believe that we have a responsibility to ensure that our children really understand what they are dealing with and how to deal with it. Through that comes respect.

Knives have no culture. We are the ones who dictate that.
 
W

waldorf

Guest
QUOTE
Somewhere along the line something has gone rather awry with the way we teach kids about knives. Or do we indeed teach them at all? Now the knife is seen solely as a weapon, a way to threaten or harm, to gain power and advantage. Knives are not toys, nor should they be viewed only as a danger. They are simply tools, and like a chisel or saw they need to be used with thought and skill. These things have to be taught.

I think your right in what you say Jack, but also I think its a reflection on society. Obviously not all kids behave in this manner , but a large number
are brought up with very little sense of values, in a culture where having a weapon is seen as being Cool :?:
Also what does this say about a society which fails to address problems at the source, and then think a blanket ban will solve the issue.
Banning firearms never stopped a criminal who was`nt licenced in the first place. I also remember reading some figures regarding stabbings and in most incidents a screwdriver or kitchen cutlery was used
the Woodlore knife was never mentioned :roll:
Its terrible that anyone is stabbed, but penalising the majority in the hope of stopping incidents like the one mentioned, is a long way short of
an answer for anyone.
 

clcuckow

Settler
Oct 17, 2003
795
1
Merseyside, Cheshire
I agree,

But I am worried that we are following the USA and things will only get worse before hopefully they get better.

I live 20Min's away from Manchester and if the local new is to be believed in some schools the new fashion accessory that you will find alongside the lunchbox and calculator is a hand gun.

I am worried that within 5-7 year we will see the security guard and metal detectors in our schools that are so prevalent is schools in intercity USA.

What has happen in the 20-odd years since my Granddad gave me that little black pen knife with the, as my Gran called it "that thing to talk stones out of horse hooves". I was taught that a knives where sharp tools to used with care but not fear, but still just a tool like any other...


Now where is that little black knife...
 

ChrisKavanaugh

Need to contact Admin...
I watched horrified as the Columbine tragedy played out on T.V. I was further horrified when the N.R.A. held a pro gun rally in the town with Charlton Heston. If there is a 'knife owner' community in G.B. you need to do, and more importantly, not do a few things immediately. 1. write letters to your newspapers, local constabulatoryand elected representatives. Let them know you are concerned about the violence and equally the impact on legitimate use. 2. Let the cutlery dealers understand marketing "Mack the Knife" is going to result in a loss of your patronage 3. start a programme promoting knife safety and responsibility 4. Be painfully polite, avoid sloganeering ( when knives are outlawed,only outlaws will have knives,) and dress your very best; ties are in , SAS smocks are out. How is the popular media impacting violence? Most plays by Shakespeare have enough sword and dagger play to make the most violent video game pale. But it doesn't take a literary critic to recognise expoitation and glorification of violence. Nothing disturbs me more than a actor speaking out without their own actions held to account. Sean Connery spoke in favour of gun control, reminding his audience of the tragic shooting in Scotland. I wouldn't object so much, except for 007, the Untouchables, et al. I'm sitting here,holding a flint nodule all the way from Grime's Graves. Edged tools helped make us what we are. Physical anthropology even postulates our hands evolved in response to tool making. The study of "Oetzi" the oldest human mummy bears testimony to brutal violence. His flint dagger had human blood on it. Those ancient herders and hunters could have agreed to ban war arrows,copper axes over a certain wieght and flint daggers having two edges. Ironically , we are communicating via silicone chips. There is a long line of innovations from that flint dagger to microchip.Men with bronze bashed in the heads of flint users and were in turn bashed by men of iron. But along with all that bashing people carved the first flutes that gave rise to Mozart and hewed trees into ships that launched explorations more daring than space.
 

ESpy

Settler
Aug 28, 2003
925
57
53
Hampshire
www.britishblades.com
I get th eimpression that you're referring to the "infotainment" by Michael Moore, Chris - I'd be inclined to be exceedingly cautious about anything he claims as "fact".

THe NRA annual members' meeting, AIUI, was in Denver (and all the events were cancelled) - and Moore used footage from two different speeches by Heston - including the "cold dead hands" statement, from a year later in Charlotte (apparently in reference to being presented with a musket).

Amazing what a little cynical splicing and editing can do - and we have people withion the media over here just as delighted to misrepresent fact so that they can manage a little self-publicity.
 

stevec

Full Member
Oct 30, 2003
550
147
Sheffield
waldorf's point is a good one, lets face it are you realy going to go out, but a couply of hundred quid's worth of steel to stab/slash someone with? no of course you wouldn't, i'd go to my local asda/tesco/morrison/safeway.....and buy a £5carving knife, and then trow it ina river when i was finished with it. the stupidity of some of the laws in this country is staggering. i think that i heard somewhere that since dumblane, that the ammount of gun relate crime has gone up, hmm theres a big surprise, not of the shooting fraternity in this country never pointed that one out, oh no!!
 

stevec

Full Member
Oct 30, 2003
550
147
Sheffield
hmm grammer and english wasn't the best in that post was it? i've not got round to reading the report online yet, but on this mornings news they didn't mention what sort of knife was used. what will the government do if its mummies veg knife? oh dear, all veg knives are banned unless you can show the retailer a certificate to prove that you can cook and need to use a veg knife. you'd need a visit from the local police to make sure that your house is secure, and you are a well ballanced person.
<rant off>
i'm sure that you all get my point. if it was mummies/daddies veg knife then i'm sure that it won't be mentioned or if it is it won't be shouted about. if its a pocket knife, or fixed blade hunting knife, or fillet knife then they'll got to town on it, lots of press, little 10year olds going into shops to prove how easy to buy knives it is.... we've seen it before.
oh well
see you all later
steve
 
Oct 16, 2003
154
3
57
Surrey
I agree entirely with the point made by Stevec. I believe that despite the escalation in gun related crime, there has been not a single incident of gun crime in which a licensed firearm was used.

I fear we may never break the pattern of knee-jerk political correctness: My Father taugth me that a knife is a tool. He used to used a flick-knife for putting up the frames for his sweet peas, because he could hold the twine in one hand and open the knife with the other! He still carries a pocket knife everywhere (albeit not a flick-knife) and so do I. I have a Woodlore knife on order and I'm sure that will follow me virtually everywhere. I am also willing to use the argument that I wouldn't pay £200 for a knife to use as a weapon.

I hold down a responsible job, with good academic qualifications and am a governor of my eldest child's school. Not being regarded as an unstable knife wielding manic, I would rather hope that the example I set to my children and their friends is that the knife is a useful and essential tool, which can be used to survive if necessary, but mainly to enhance the enjoyment of the wilderness we have left. Perhaps, if there was more social focus on such activities then more young people could be educated in the intended use of a knife, get out into the woods and learn that you can have a adventure and excitment without the use of chemicals.

My rant over!!
 

sargey

Mod
Mod
Member of Bushcraft UK Academy
Sep 11, 2003
2,695
8
cheltenham, glos
on a slightly facetious note, when friends at work look at one of my knives and start saying "you could kill someone with that..." i usually challenge them to a fight to the death in the carpark. i tell them they can use the knife and i'll use my ford escort!

IIRC it's something like only two percent of stabbings that are actually carried out with a knife. the rest is made up of bottles chisels and so on as already mentioned.

there was a story a while ago in the daily mirror, about under age gun owners. there was a picture of a young lad (13/14?) with his first single barrel 410 shotgun for use on his dad's farm. he was obviously very proud. the reporters had obviously been round his house and interviewed the father and son, very friendly.

the newspaper then went on to say that they'd contacted a couple of MPs and that they were going to launch a campaign to stop this underage youth gun terror. apparently it's particularly prevalent here in gloucestershire!

with newspapers twisting words and sensationalism, the mirror is a pet hate of mine for this, manufacturing news where there isn't any. it makes you wonder how even a tie and suit clad sane individual is going to be able to make any headway against the torrent of misguided media hysteria.

cheers, and.
 
N

nick

Guest
Andrew Middleton said:
....the knife is a useful and essential tool, which can be used to survive if necessary, but mainly to enhance the enjoyment of the wilderness we have left. Perhaps, if there was more social focus on such activities then more young people could be educated in the intended use of a knife, get out into the woods and learn that you can have a adventure and excitment without the use of chemicals.

You're absolutely right! I can never believe the reaction among my less outdoorsy workmates when the subject of axe or knife ownership comes up. The only possible use they can think of for either is as a weapon.

It did help my career prospects when I had a shiny new Gransfors axe delivered to work though :-D

nick
 

stevec

Full Member
Oct 30, 2003
550
147
Sheffield
to keep this topic going i have an observation. no mention of what knife was used, still. now early yesterday/day before can't remember, there was one news report that mentioned a "flick knife" now that would be interesting. because what are the govenrnment going to do? ban them? they've been banned since the 50's because of the teddyboys. my girlfrien said that they wouldn't bring in a ban like they did with guns because they know now that it won't make any difference. i said that to quote the film sntach "never underestimate the predictibility of stupididty" in other words they'll try and ban knives given the chance.
steve
ps
thankfully most people where i work don't have a problem with any of the knives i have with me, but then they'd look a bit stupid taking the mick if they've just asked to borrow it.
 

Keith_Beef

Native
Sep 9, 2003
1,366
268
55
Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
sargey said:
on a slightly facetious note, when friends at work look at one of my knives and start saying "you could kill someone with that..." i usually challenge them to a fight to the death in the carpark. i tell them they can use the knife and i'll use my ford escort!

..snip..

Well, hardly anybody I know has any squeemishness about my knives, apart from one girl. When I saw her and her boyfriend a few weeks ago, I had a couple of Spyderco knives on me (loaned by Yog, good man): a leaf-bladed Lil Temperance and a Titanium Salsa. She was a bit freaky about the temperance, that she thought was a big knife! Yet she's been quite happy standing next to me in my kitchen while I was getting busy with two big knives (one in each hand) mincing meat by hand...

As for "you could kill somebody with that"... I like your Ford Escort reply. That really is the equivalent to the screwdriver :wink:

I don't have a Ford. I don't have a car at all, now. I would have to say something like "I could kill you with this mouse".


Keith.
 

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