King Arthur
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he he :rolmao: I was thinking of seeing that tonight but it was on too late......I thought it might be tosh...they're touting it as an accurate portrayal of what it was really like......yeah right....
Why's it tosh??
Why's it tosh??
It can not be an accurate portrayal of the Arthurian story when it has Guineveir and Lancelot in it so starters this is an american thing - the victorians invented it, it has been totally dis cradited, but the yanks still cling to the romance of it all. Cornwalls trilogy was orginally written with out those two and has publishers made him add the for the american market - how sad is that?
Although set at roughly the right period in time I am sure Hollywood will have made many other blunders as is their want.
Although I havent seen it yet myself, and am Loath to do so, I will go and see it just so I know what is wrong with it.
Personally speaking I spent a long time researching Arthur and his life for my book so i like to consider myself quite knowledgable. One thing I do believe is that Arthur, king, general, warrior whatever he really was, is a figure that lives in the heart of our nation and maybe the myth is greater than the truth. After all everybody from Henry VIII to CHURCHILL has evoked him when britian was threatened and never (mass economic immigration aside) from his time to ours has britian seccumed to invasion becuase he protects us still. Maybe the ghost of Arthur does slumber neith Glastonbury Tor or in Avalon waiting for our darkest moment to riase again - maybe the ghost of Arthur is in the blood of our nation and fires us to greatness in battle - maybe he really is the ONCE AND FUTURE KING!
True or not? Who knows, personally I believe a Arthur character existed, but if it wasnt true - it bloody well should have been!
Although set at roughly the right period in time I am sure Hollywood will have made many other blunders as is their want.
Although I havent seen it yet myself, and am Loath to do so, I will go and see it just so I know what is wrong with it.
Personally speaking I spent a long time researching Arthur and his life for my book so i like to consider myself quite knowledgable. One thing I do believe is that Arthur, king, general, warrior whatever he really was, is a figure that lives in the heart of our nation and maybe the myth is greater than the truth. After all everybody from Henry VIII to CHURCHILL has evoked him when britian was threatened and never (mass economic immigration aside) from his time to ours has britian seccumed to invasion becuase he protects us still. Maybe the ghost of Arthur does slumber neith Glastonbury Tor or in Avalon waiting for our darkest moment to riase again - maybe the ghost of Arthur is in the blood of our nation and fires us to greatness in battle - maybe he really is the ONCE AND FUTURE KING!
True or not? Who knows, personally I believe a Arthur character existed, but if it wasnt true - it bloody well should have been!
SO was Mel gibson really William wallace? :shock: and did the AMericans really win the batle of britian and capture the engima machine? :shock: and are the british, sorry the English really that bad! :shock: while the Scottish are so down trodden?
And in the Patriot, the south carolina slave safe hold island place, was it really a little eden or did the Americans dressed as indians really go in their and kill them all - men, women and children? Sorry that bit wasnt in the movie was it?
And while I'm at it how come the treaty that ended the War of Independance was only signed when the French turned up with a forced 5 times our number?
And how come the south started to free the slaves before the north which waited til lincolns speech and the british freed them before all the americas and it was africans selling africans that started it all off and yet it now is a race thing and ......... bloody hollywood!
One last question - could Skippy really talk? :?:
And in the Patriot, the south carolina slave safe hold island place, was it really a little eden or did the Americans dressed as indians really go in their and kill them all - men, women and children? Sorry that bit wasnt in the movie was it?
And while I'm at it how come the treaty that ended the War of Independance was only signed when the French turned up with a forced 5 times our number?
And how come the south started to free the slaves before the north which waited til lincolns speech and the british freed them before all the americas and it was africans selling africans that started it all off and yet it now is a race thing and ......... bloody hollywood!
One last question - could Skippy really talk? :?:
Tosh because....
The anorexic-looking Kira Knightley in a leather semmit or bondage outfit charging into battle against the burly Saxons.. or the Harris Hawk... or the Forestry Commission road and the modern spruce plantations serving as pict-land....
but more because it was such an obvious re-working of old stories to serve a modern purpose, in the best Hollywood or Pinewood studios tradition.
Here's how I think it started.
BIG BOSS: I want to show how an occupying army can find common ground with the locals, after centuries of occupation and fighting, when an even worse gang of bad guys invades just as the occupiers decide to leave. And we need to make sure this all about ensuring freedom so the leaders need to mention freedom in every scene.. That'll shut up Michael Moore
Underling#1: Gladiator made a lot of money, people like films about the Romans....
Big Boss: Weren't the Romans part of Old Europe?
Underling#2: We haven't had a film about King Arthur for ages, people like all that magic stuff, Merlin'n all....
Big Boss: We could have King Arthur taking on the Romans?
Tea-lady: But King Arthur was in a totally different time from the Romans....
Windowcleaner (eavesdropping) scoffs: yeah, you could make Arthur the leader of a Roman Special forces outfit told to do one last mission before the Romans withdraw, who ends up uniting with the locals because the Saxons are invading... and then he could be like Braveheart fighting for freedom for all.
tea-lady: but isn't freedom for all such a modern idea?
Big Boss: I like it, get me a new tea-lady, window-cleaner..make the film
(apologies to window-cleaners)
And Gary, I suspect the channel was more important than old ghosts....
The anorexic-looking Kira Knightley in a leather semmit or bondage outfit charging into battle against the burly Saxons.. or the Harris Hawk... or the Forestry Commission road and the modern spruce plantations serving as pict-land....
but more because it was such an obvious re-working of old stories to serve a modern purpose, in the best Hollywood or Pinewood studios tradition.
Here's how I think it started.
BIG BOSS: I want to show how an occupying army can find common ground with the locals, after centuries of occupation and fighting, when an even worse gang of bad guys invades just as the occupiers decide to leave. And we need to make sure this all about ensuring freedom so the leaders need to mention freedom in every scene.. That'll shut up Michael Moore
Underling#1: Gladiator made a lot of money, people like films about the Romans....
Big Boss: Weren't the Romans part of Old Europe?
Underling#2: We haven't had a film about King Arthur for ages, people like all that magic stuff, Merlin'n all....
Big Boss: We could have King Arthur taking on the Romans?
Tea-lady: But King Arthur was in a totally different time from the Romans....
Windowcleaner (eavesdropping) scoffs: yeah, you could make Arthur the leader of a Roman Special forces outfit told to do one last mission before the Romans withdraw, who ends up uniting with the locals because the Saxons are invading... and then he could be like Braveheart fighting for freedom for all.
tea-lady: but isn't freedom for all such a modern idea?
Big Boss: I like it, get me a new tea-lady, window-cleaner..make the film
(apologies to window-cleaners)
And Gary, I suspect the channel was more important than old ghosts....
ChrisKavanaugh
Need to contact Admin...
I don't know what Hollywood is. There's a town that has become a depressed area with homeless people, druggies, prostitutes and roving gangs sprawled across sidewalks with stars of forgotten movies. There's a Hollywood partly owned at various times by Japanese business, Rank films etc that makes Civil War movies in Eastern Europe (Cold Mountain), docudramas in New Zealand ( Eisenhower) and fictional US army horsethieves (In Pursuit of honor) in Australia. Meanwhile the people who kept Hollywood alive for decades ( greensmen, extras, caterers, propmen etc.) are flipping hamburgers or working at big box discount stores while 20 something mega stars go into rehab becuase of the overwhelming personal stress making 5 million a picture. Now, as to Arthur. I too, did a college paper on the story. It has always been embellished, altered and re interpreted. Mark Twain's A CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING ARTHUR'S COURT, White's THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING , the afore mentioned Victorian and medieval french influences and my personal favourite involving a certain comedy troup with coconut shell sound effects. I wouldn't worry to much about this current bit of rubbish. It will find itself in the discount video bin soon enough.Now back to the real Arthur. There was probably a romano-british leader who employed light cavalry, superior armor and tactics to swiftly move about, fighting 12 odd battles that stemmed the Saxon invasion. I am more fascinated by the mythological aspects. Arthur ( Artur) means Bear ( arcturus for us celestial navigation hold overs.) A bear hibernates, seemingly dead and comes back after a long cold winter of trials. Sir Gawain the Green Knight is my fav. Recall how his strength increases during the day? If this isn't an old celtic diety I'm a Hare krishna. J.R.R. Tolkien once said he created LOTR in part because the brits didn't have a national mythology like Greece, Rome or Scandiavia. I love LOTR, but again, rubbish! I'm going to curl up now with my Prince Valiant comic books. I think he's sailing to the New World to stop a war between Egyptia traders and the locals.
Chris your Arthur bear link is closer than you might suspect - have you read Philips and Keatmans KING ARTHUR THE TRUE STORY? If not, and if your interested in Arthur, I suggest you do most strongly!
While still not 100% I and many learned friends of mine consider this to be, possibly, the most likely of all arthurian thoeries.
And while I agree the channel has been a big help it didnt stop the romans or the saxons or the normans and before you say it - yep the normans came after, but they fought the saxons (arthurs enemies) and more to the point Arthur had friends and allies in Amorica (or normandy as we know today) indeed he even went there to fight the Franks - or french.
Does the mist of time remember - can ghosts of the past touch the future?
Look back to what halloween really is - back to the beginning? All nature based religions and peoples ancestor worship, including the pre christian romans and lets not forget Arthur wasn't a christian.
But I detract, because the channel, while bolstered by the spirit of our people has always been deafened by men who loved their country and were willing to spill there lifes blood deafening.
While today, maybe, the ghost of Arthur is laid to rest because now if the sons of his people dared to defend his land in word or deed some blood sucking solicitor would scream human right and sue there butt.
Arthur, must be turning in his grave!
While still not 100% I and many learned friends of mine consider this to be, possibly, the most likely of all arthurian thoeries.
And while I agree the channel has been a big help it didnt stop the romans or the saxons or the normans and before you say it - yep the normans came after, but they fought the saxons (arthurs enemies) and more to the point Arthur had friends and allies in Amorica (or normandy as we know today) indeed he even went there to fight the Franks - or french.
Does the mist of time remember - can ghosts of the past touch the future?
Look back to what halloween really is - back to the beginning? All nature based religions and peoples ancestor worship, including the pre christian romans and lets not forget Arthur wasn't a christian.
But I detract, because the channel, while bolstered by the spirit of our people has always been deafened by men who loved their country and were willing to spill there lifes blood deafening.
While today, maybe, the ghost of Arthur is laid to rest because now if the sons of his people dared to defend his land in word or deed some blood sucking solicitor would scream human right and sue there butt.
Arthur, must be turning in his grave!
Whilst I agree in principle with what you say Gary, I'd like to put my pedantry hat on. Rather than being a victorian invention, the Launcelot/Gwynivere has been part of the arthurian cycle since he was introduced into the cast by Chretien De Troyes. This element is enhanced in the Vulgate and further in le Mort D'arthur.
Personally I prefer Gawain as a knight, his stories are far more interesting!
Chris: I believe Tolkein didn't say he was trying to create a mythology for the british, but for the english, a slightly different matter*, as they didn't really have a mythology that has survived to the modern day.
I quite like the Idea of Arthur being a Roman Officer, one of my favourite books on the subject places him as an head of an Alan Auxilly cavalry unit, that was involved in the training of the Votadini tribe, just north of the wall. Another book claims to have proof (absolute proof at that) that all the events mentioned in the root arthur stories (the Mabinogion is their preferred version) can be moved to north wales.
*Ok they had Beowulf and some poetry about battles an' stuff, but what the hey!
Personally I prefer Gawain as a knight, his stories are far more interesting!
Chris: I believe Tolkein didn't say he was trying to create a mythology for the british, but for the english, a slightly different matter*, as they didn't really have a mythology that has survived to the modern day.
I quite like the Idea of Arthur being a Roman Officer, one of my favourite books on the subject places him as an head of an Alan Auxilly cavalry unit, that was involved in the training of the Votadini tribe, just north of the wall. Another book claims to have proof (absolute proof at that) that all the events mentioned in the root arthur stories (the Mabinogion is their preferred version) can be moved to north wales.
*Ok they had Beowulf and some poetry about battles an' stuff, but what the hey!
Do I have to say more??? Womble your correct, I was just generalizing with the Victorian comment because, to my mind, it was they who used the illicit love affair to highlight their own strict moral code ect.
As for the Votidini link - spot on there too! :super: Although I'm not sure about the Roxborough link etc - I prefer to think of the Wroxeter site being more likly. But as no one really knows its all relative really.
As for the Votidini link - spot on there too! :super: Although I'm not sure about the Roxborough link etc - I prefer to think of the Wroxeter site being more likly. But as no one really knows its all relative really.
Agreed there mate.
The people who wrote the book putting forward the Northern Wales theory rubbished the Votadini suggestion, although some of their ideas seemed a little far fetched to me - especially placing the kingdoms of Bernicia and Deria in Cheshire/Wirral area rather than the Eastern coast.
The people who wrote the book putting forward the Northern Wales theory rubbished the Votadini suggestion, although some of their ideas seemed a little far fetched to me - especially placing the kingdoms of Bernicia and Deria in Cheshire/Wirral area rather than the Eastern coast.
ChrisKavanaugh
Need to contact Admin...
One thing I've learned in my academic field of archaeology is to keep an open mind to everything. I was in a university class and the proff produced a copy of some rather intricate pictographs. We were told to study them and postulate possible meaning or use. I looked at it a few minutes, scribbled a few words and leaned back in my chair to the looks of pity or horror from all. There were tortuous explanations of it being a celestial calender, trade route map, clan family tree and my favourite, a musical composition for pelican bone flutes.My brief insight was not well received. I wrote " some things are private or of import only to the author and his readers. In other words, this is private and none of our business." Perhaps the magic of Merlin is in the elusivness of Arthur. The story and it's message are what matters.
HaHaHa, your all wrong! 
According to fresh research on local T.V this week Camelot was actually Cams Hall, an ancient estate just about a mile from portchester castle.This is a Roman castle between Fareham and Portsmouth which still has the original Roman walls but a norman keep.
And it must be true ,I saw it on the Tele. :rolmao:
According to fresh research on local T.V this week Camelot was actually Cams Hall, an ancient estate just about a mile from portchester castle.This is a Roman castle between Fareham and Portsmouth which still has the original Roman walls but a norman keep.And it must be true ,I saw it on the Tele. :rolmao:
How do you stay awake? :shock:TheViking said:But would rather sit down saturday night and watch dr. Zivago
bushwacker bob said:According to fresh research on local T.V this week Camelot was actually Cams Hall, an ancient estate just about a mile from portchester castle.This is a Roman castle between Fareham and Portsmouth which still has the original Roman walls but a norman keep. QUOTE]
i suppose it was destroyed by dragon upset at pompeys performance on the pitch. i have heard it all now.): Although Portchester castle is well worth a visit
Guys, I have seen this film, but I don't go to watch films because I have read the book, I go to be entertained.
Some films are entertaining and can drive that spark in your imagination, others don't.
This was one of the others, the story (for that is what this is) wasn't bad, the acting wasn't bad, but it was lacking something. In the end we can debate its accuracy forever and ever amen, but in the end nobody knows the truth about it anyway.
Lets put it this way, I would not be bothered if it was on the TV and definitely would not buy it on DVD or VHS :roll:
Some films are entertaining and can drive that spark in your imagination, others don't.
This was one of the others, the story (for that is what this is) wasn't bad, the acting wasn't bad, but it was lacking something. In the end we can debate its accuracy forever and ever amen, but in the end nobody knows the truth about it anyway.
Lets put it this way, I would not be bothered if it was on the TV and definitely would not buy it on DVD or VHS :roll:
Accuracy of the "story" aside, I think this is a poor film. It's not often that I would tell people not to see a film as people like different things but, sadly, this is a no-no!
They haven't cast the parts well, they go from scene to scene poorly, it's full of unimaginative cliches. The list goes on.
If you can manage to see it for free somehow, go for it. If you can't, then save your money for a different film!
They haven't cast the parts well, they go from scene to scene poorly, it's full of unimaginative cliches. The list goes on.
If you can manage to see it for free somehow, go for it. If you can't, then save your money for a different film!
Well if Arthur is a bad movie then those of you, who like me, grew up on a diet of beer and rock will be tickled pink by School of Rock! My son brought it home and I was so impressed I bought the album!! :roll:
Now just need to grow my heair long :?: :yikes: :?:
I know ............
Now just need to grow my heair long :?: :yikes: :?:
I know ............
Gary,
School of Rock - top film. Got it out 'cos there was nothing else and it was recommended by a friend also brought up on rock and beer.
Watch film, drunk beer and decided to go clubbing, except it was 1am on a Wednesday. Must get the soundtrack
Still got the long hair and no receeding! Aaarrggg- just worked out I've had the same hair style (or lack of) for 17 years.
School of Rock - top film. Got it out 'cos there was nothing else and it was recommended by a friend also brought up on rock and beer.
Watch film, drunk beer and decided to go clubbing, except it was 1am on a Wednesday. Must get the soundtrack
Still got the long hair and no receeding! Aaarrggg- just worked out I've had the same hair style (or lack of) for 17 years.
