If you could Design you own baselayer........

[lostplanet]

This is an attempt at a little community research, As i am not qualified for such work please bare with me on this

I would like views, opinions and requirements from some of the more experienced members here on "baselayers", (T-shirts and underwear(not socks)

If you designed a baselayer, what would be the most important features?

What would be your ideal baselayer style or cut when out in harsh environments all over the world?
(ie long sleeve, short sleeve, roll neck, zip neck, taped seams, seamless at sholder, buttons, velcro etc.)

Is there a baselayer on the market today that fulfils all or most of your requirements?


There is more to this, but what i have in mind may not be suitable in reality, so before i go possibly wasting a lot of time, i would like to get an idea to see if i'm even in the ballpark.

Many thanks
Jason

 

[Squidders]

For me (personally, so don't anyone say i'm "wrong" please )

soft fabric that doesn't itch
no big seams to dig in to me
good at wicking moisture
easy to dry
non flamable
short or long depending on season
doesn't smell after extended use
washable at any temp without turning in to a cracker
able to resist tearing
cheap

If it meets those, i'll take 20

 

[lostplanet]

is colour an issue? and when you say cheap, how cheap?

I see wicking is important but if you are working hard and sweat, no matter how breathable the fabric its going to get wet or damp at best, so if the garment could be dried quickly either by the sun, inside your sleeping bag or by a fire, would this be acceptable?

 

[Squidders]

Colour, not important... I think something bright would actually be a bonus in case of an emergency. It's a base layer anyway.

I have had some lowe alpine base layer stuff that dried in a second and wicked very well indeed but it did stink.

I guess for me if keeping it dry was 100% then 70% of that would need to be wicking and 30% easy drying importance. if that makes any sense?

 

[OhCanada]

Jason, rather then try to sound like a designer why not just come out and say that you are either: 1 looking for a baselayer or 2. starting your own company. Sorry, but I am just PMSing about posts that do not speak plain language.

Many companies have already done the research. Your research is to find out the best quality most effective base layer out there. There will not be one perfect product for everything, I wish people would stop looking.

You have natural (wool, silk) fabrics that need special care and man-made fabrics that can possably melt but hey just be careful.

I am a big fan of Polartec and I'd have to say it is tops among professionals here in North America.

Myself, a base layer needs to be long sleeved. If I am wearing a base layer it is cold out. If is summer I'll wear manmade Ts or long shirts.

Flat seam (pretty much a given today but watch out for seams directly on top of the sholder if you carry a pack).

Quick dry=survival, light weight (gear in general) means comfort.

Crew neck---here we have a problem! Almost every garment has a turtle neck collar, all these add up to too much material around the neck. I have garments that fit perfectly over each other but not all the collars can be zipped up when on.

So you have a choice: Crew neck baselayer and turtleneck outters, or turtle neck base layer with crew neck outters. Both have good and bad points.

Thickness...if you are looking for a 3-4 season garment then go with a thin baselayer, if you just want a winter baselayer then go thick.

 

[lardbloke]

I have tried many over the years, as I am particularly fussy about keeping warm (even in the summer months) and dry. I like garments such as the norgi army shirts. They tick all the boxes and are pretty cheap from army surplus. I also like peter storms range of base-mid layer wears, again they do the job and are reasonably priced. The more expensive ranges (climbing brands) do the job but at a much higher cost, but I dont like flashing brand names around and cannot afford most of them anyway.

 

[lostplanet]

thanks for replys,
i tried to be a plain as i could (please bare with me on this)
Ohcanada honestly i am not a designer or starting a business. I have a friend who tried to develop a fabric in a different field which was unsuccessful and am simply trying to get an idea where and if this fabric can be appied to bushcraft or outdoor pursuits in general for my own interest.
if it can be applied, then all well an good but i dont expect to become a millionaire from it and after trying several brands and fabrics i would be happy enough to have a decent, non smelly baselayer from this research.I dont know everything hence this thread.

 

[Squidders]

Lardbloke I got a few of the nice Lowe Alpine ones and they were fantstic until after a weekend nobody wanted to be near me... I stank like a dead skunk, it was nasty.

They're good if you have frantic exersise for 1 day and then change clothes.

I won't be buying them again.

 

[lardbloke]

lol......I know what you mean. They make nice hats mind.

 

[oryctolaguscuniculus]

I will always choose natural materials such as wool or cotton.
Norwegian army shirts, Ulfrotte or if really cold Swanndri Ranger. They are hardwearing, don't stink after days of use and are far more resistant to fire than man made fibre baselayers.

 

[Toddy]

For warmth knitted silk, and it's not that expensive. It does need washed though 'cos sweat will eventually rot it otherwise.
Squidders list is pretty comprehensive and for sheer hardwearing, wicking, comfort, and it will get better and better as it's washed and worn, linen beats it all. Hemp is pretty good too. I don't know anyone who makes underclothing from either of these now on a truly commercial basis, cotton has taken over and it is *so* not in the same league.
Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Swampy Matt]

I have tried baselayers in cotton, silk, linen, synthetics and wool.

For me there is only one baselayer worth considering:

ICEBREAKER - http://www.icebreaker.com/

Its 100% merino wool from New Zealand and does everything I've ever needed it to.

Squidders asked that a baselayer was as follows:

1) soft fabric that doesn't itch
2) no big seams to dig in to me
3) good at wicking moisture
4) easy to dry
5) non flamable
6) short or long depending on season
7) doesn't smell after extended use
8) washable at any temp without turning in to a cracker
9) able to resist tearing
10) cheap

Well,
1 - Merino wool has a very long strand length and is increadibly fine, so no it does not itch at all.
2 - Very fine seems, and it is designed so that the baselayer and midlayer seams are offset from each other. Raglan sleeves on most products aswell, to avoid rucksack straps causing rubbing
3 - Merino wool is excellent at wicking moisture - it keeps the sheep comfortable in extremes of -15degC to 35degC. It seems to hold moisture next to the skin just long enough, before moving it away - after all we sweat for a reason. Moving the moisture away too quickly may be an additional cause of overheating. (Can't remember which O/doors manufacturer was researching this OTTOMH, but it seemed to make sense)
4 - Not as quick to dry as some synthetics, but much faster than cotton.
5 - Icebreaker is in use with some fire departments for this reason, it has the same properties as any other wool product in this respect.
6 - Its available in styles ranging from vest/boxer shorts through to long sleeve T-shirt and full length pants.
7 - I understand that it has been worn for 40-60 days, night and day during testing, with no significant smell. certainly after a week outdoors, mine just tends to smell of woodsmoke.
8 - Its machine washable and can be machine-dried as well.
9 - Mine have had some fairly rough treatment over the last 18mths - 2 years. I have a small tear in the sleeve of one top, caused by a 'leatherman accident'. other than that no probs. As its wool rather than synthetic, running repairs are easy (if you can wield a needle and thead to any degree)
10 - the basic s/sleeve t-shirt is around £30. If i was heading out for a week somewhere I'd need 1x £30 icebreaker compared to 2 or 3x £20 synthetics (in terms of smell and comfort - some would get by on less). It this respect it can be cheeper.

In addition to this:
a) Its wool - get wet and you still stay warm.
b) It interacts with the wool fibres of your Swanni so that they work very well together.
c) it feels warm instantly unlike any synthetic or cotton based material i've used.

Hope this is of some use.

If anyone does a good Hemp baselayer, I'd love to know about it - I understand that this was the No.1 fibre in use across more or less the whole textile using world from pre-history through to the early part of the 1900's. As someone who enjoys things 'the old way' it would be great to test the properties of this material

Matt.

 

[HuBBa]

Wool is a wonderful material. And afaik there are only two drawbacks really. Allergies & Weight. If you are not allergic to wool or to a few extra grams, the wool will prob be the best (according to the reasons listed in the previous post

But synthetics are the only way to go if you are chasing grams and/or can't use wool due to allergy.

 

[lostplanet]

again thanks for replys and all your time on this.
that very interesting, i was going to ask if there are any negatives to this product, hubba seems to have answered that, however Matt if you use this product on a regular basis, is there any negative aspect of it in your opinion?what would you do to improve the product?

 

[Swampy Matt]

But synthetics are the only way to go if you are chasing grams and/or can't use wool due to allergy.

Wool has an almost exact composition to hair, skin, fingernails, etc. An actual allergy is increadibly rare - almost unheard of.

However, many people believe they are allergic to wool because the 'New Wool' commonly used in sweaters, cardigans and so on can be itchy. This is really caused by
1) the short length of the individual wool fibre, which results in many microscopic fibre ends sticking out of the wool strand.
2) the micron diameter of the wool fibre - the thicker the individual wool fibre, the more course the spun strand.

Merino wool does not suffer from either of these problems as only the longest, finest strands are used - this is judged by hand at the Sheep Stations in NZ where the sheep are sheared and its one of the highest paid jobs on the station as it requires years of experience to do.

As far as the weight is concerned, my Icebreaker T-shirt weighs less than my GF's Lowe Alpine synthetic T-shirt, and she usually nicks it 'cos its warmer!

is there any negative aspect of it in your opinion?what would you do to improve the product?

I've honestly not found a negative side to the product (yet!). I overheated on my first few uses of Icebreaker as I'd underestimated how warm it was - but thats my fault, not the product's!

The only improvement I think I'd make would be to some of the actual styles of clothing, to make them a little less 'outdoorsy'. But maybe not, as I know one of the Icebreaker UK Sales Reps has worn the tops out clubbing

Smartwool also make Merino Wool base layers (in addition to superb walking and skiing socks) - http://www.smartwool.com/ . I haven't had chance to try these yet, but they look and feel fantastic.

I also understand that ALDI were selling Merino wool tops really cheap last winter - probably worth watching out for this Autumn/ Winter.

Matt.

 

[HuBBa]

Hey Matt, you wouldn't happen to know of a retailer in Europe that sells all of Icebreakers products? I've gone through everyone of the Swedish retailers (as i am from Sweden but all they seem to sell is the undergarments, and i want the outer layers they have. Very nice clothes.

 

[moduser]

I agree, Icebreaker do fantastic kit. I have two long sleeve base layers in different weights and there terrific.

As far as getting them in Europe I'm not sure who the distributor is but in the UK most of the big outdoors chains stock them, i.e. Ellis Brigham, Snow & Rock, Field & Trek etc.

If you do a local google on Icebreaker Merino I'd be suprised if it comes up blank.

 

[Rhodri]

I agree with all of what's been said regarding merino wool baselayers - fantastic and the only way to go IMHO.

Interestingly I've recently seen (in my local Blacks) a Helly Hansen product made out of what they call 'prowool'. It's basically the same as their existing Lifa shirts, but made out of wool. Anyone tried them yet? They look good...

Cheers,
Rod

 

[Swampy Matt]

Hey Matt, you wouldn't happen to know of a retailer in Europe that sells all of Icebreakers products? I've gone through everyone of the Swedish retailers (as i am from Sweden but all they seem to sell is the undergarments, and i want the outer layers they have. Very nice clothes.

Hi Hubba,

I used to work for these guys - http://www.lockwoodsoutdoor.co.uk/ - and picked up all my Icebreaker kit whilst working there, but I left 6months ago, so I'm not exactly sure what they are selling at the moment, but they did have the felted vest/waistcoat and the felted short jacket. Very, very nice (but these are pricey).

It may be worth dropping them an email to see if they can help - they may be able to order something in for you or point you in the right direction. Especially as the shop has good links with Sweden, via Hagloffs (awesome kit) who have kindly given several of the staff a 'Swedish wilderness experience'.

Matt.

 

[EdS]

RE: wool

Another reason wool itches is that all hair/fur has scales on it. No most wool these are fairly course - the cause of the itch. On marino wool the scales are a lot finer = les itch.

Some people are allergic to wool but that is mostly a histamine (spelling?) responce to the protiens that make up wool.