If I say 'Scouts' what do you think of?

[drstrange]

Canoes
Badges
Sausages and beans
Riding along on the crest of a Wave
Badge with a tortoise on it
Knots
Early MPV's
Brown Trousers
Flagpoles
Purple and Yellow Neckerchief
Pup tents
Old kit

 

[malcolmc]

The beavers have lodges, scouts are still troops, cubs are packs and explorers are in a unit.

Thanks for that, I just can’t keep up with all these new fangled ways.

In my day we didn’t have beavers and explorers, just cubs and scouts.

Wow there are some strong feelings here.

Baden-Powell had was a man of good intentions, many of his ideals are relevant today but he was a man of his time. I think if he was alive today he would do things differently. When I was in the scouts I was not comfortable with the strong marshal influence but at that time virtually all leaders would have seen military service and would expect their charges to do National Service. Where I grew up there was an army depot (REME) that was a major employer in the area. At least 2 of our leaders worked there, the army influence may have been stronger in my troop than those in other areas.

Today I’m still not comfortable with a marshal influence on young peoples organisations and there are many youth organisations that don’t have it. However, speaking to current scout troop leaders locally, it appears the movement is leaving marshal things behind. Drill is just regarded as a bit of fun and very little is done. Bullying was almost seen as part of the discipline regime when I was a scout; leaders today see it as a bad thing and will stop it promptly, which again is a way the movement is changing for the better.

The movement has in my view been rightly criticized for some bad things in the past but it is changing and it has the potential to do a lot of good in the future. Even though my own experience in the scouts was not a good one I for one wish them well.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Oh boy Drstrange, did you ever get my meaning wrong.
"Better than" was aimed at the drug taking, car stealing, OAP mugging, benefit swindling, etc etc etc that so regularly hit the headlines. I want my kids to grow up to hold all the bad things in this society in contempt, and if that includes the folk that cause arguement for the sake of it, then so be it.

Would some kind moderator please lock this thread down and consider erasing it from our archives - it is descending into the gutter.

Ogri the trog

 

[drstrange]

Oh boy Drstrange, did you ever get my meaning wrong.
"Better than" was aimed at the drug taking, car stealing, OAP mugging, benefit swindling, etc etc etc that so regularly hit the headlines. I want my kids to grow up to hold all the bad things in this society in contempt, and if that includes the folk that cause arguement for the sake of it, then so be it.

And I want my children to grow up to be better than people who feel that they have to wear a uniform in order to be accepted as decent by society. Is that fair?

 

[Brian]

Drstrange, now you are trying to make your children elitist, using your previous post as your example, I wore a uniform in the British Red Cross, does that make me elitist as well?

Brian

 

[Ogri the trog]

And I want my children to grow up to be better than people who feel that they have to wear a uniform in order to be accepted as decent by society. Is that fair?

Entirely,
But please see my point of view. I went throught the organisation enjoying the things we did, I also joined the military, where I (largely) enjoyed the things I did. The whole is my life experience and has made me the man that I am today.
The wearing of a uniform, to my mind, does not necessarily convey the attributes of neo-naziism, dictatorship, fashism and the other negatives you have mentioned. To me it conveys team spirit, common goals, loyalty to the ideals that you hold dear.
Neither of us can compare with another lifetime of experience as we've both had only one childhood, so we must agree to disagree.

Ogri the trog

 

[drstrange]

Drstrange, now you are trying to make your children elitist, using your previous post as your example, I wore a uniform in the British Red Cross, does that make me elitist as well?

Brian

I'm not trying to make my children anything, I'd quite like their identities to emerge naturally, I deffinatley don't want them pledging allegiance to a rich old lady who believes that god has given her the right to rule. Nor do I want them to swear to a God that hasn't ever stepped down from the clouds to introduce 'him' self. I deffinately don't want them in uniform outside of school hours, I honestly can't stand the idea of uniforms for children, but some are legally compulsory.

But I don't quite understand what you mean, if not wearing a uniform is an elitist attribute, then why would your uniform make you elitist in my view?

 

[Brian]

Your posts are going round in circles mate and don't really help the discussion that up until your rant was going quite well and giving valid points to the original question, thats all I'll say on the matter as I won't be drawn into the argument that you seem to want!

Brian

 

[Tengu]

I dont believe in school uniforms

But then, I dont believe in schools, so why worry?

 

[drstrange]

Entirely,
But please see my point of view. I went throught the organisation enjoying the things we did, I also joined the military, where I (largely) enjoyed the things I did. The whole is my life experience and has made me the man that I am today.
The wearing of a uniform, to my mind, does not necessarily convey the attributes of neo-naziism, dictatorship, fashism and the other negatives you have mentioned. To me it conveys team spirit, common goals, loyalty to the ideals that you hold dear.
Neither of us can compare with another lifetime of experience as we've both had only one childhood, so we must agree to disagree.

Ogri the trog

Orgi. I don't think that anything I have said, no matter how critical of the origins and structure of scouting, has been intended to attack, hurt, diminuate any individual on this thread (although in defense I may have been a trifle blunt) with the possible exception of B.P and that was only because someone brought him up as being against political correctness. I wouldn't have said anything about him if he hadn't been wheeled out into the fray (poor ol baden)!

I know that there are people on the forum who don't like what I have to say sometimes, and have probably taken silent exception to me personally. But I think that we are sometimes over polite to each other in this medium of forum, and I'm sure that when we meet personally we are more accepting of each others views than this.

I see this all the time on these fora, people get so annoyed so quickly with people over the subtleist of textual nuances, if this happened in real life we would have all killed each other by now.

I'm sorry for 'hijacking' this thread for a while but I honestly felt that what I had to say needed to be said in the context of the thread, right or wrong, I just thought that a list of badges, knots and woggles wouldn't project a sense of how I felt about the movement (I have included one just in case).

No I don't want to start my own thread about scouting, what would I call it "does Baden Powell like Hitler?" or "Baden Powell - saint or sinner?".

 

[drstrange]

Your posts are going round in circles mate and don't really help the discussion that up until your rant was going quite well and giving valid points to the original question, thats all I'll say on the matter as I won't be drawn into the argument that you seem to want!

Brian

I haven't put a post up that hasn't directly responded to a dig like yours for ages on thread, what are you on about?

 

[Toddy]

This was an interesting thread but appears to have degenerated into a "He said, You said, no, I said" kind of loop.

Time out I think.

Toddy

 

[Toddy]

**************************************************************************************
Today, 18:52
g4ghb
Maker
Settler Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 642



"May I first just say a thank you to all who have added to this thread! (and to Toddy for letting me reply!)

I support Toddys decision to close the thread as it did become a tit for tat self sustaining exchange which possibly would have got more heated. Now please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining and as I said before thank you to ALL!

I admit I wasn't expecting some of the answers I got ( to be honest I was expecting at least one 'dyb dyb dyb!' ) I was after a wide opinion and I certainly got it!

The aim was to canvas opinion to gain ideas for a display / demonstration of Scouting to the general public but it didn't quite turn out how I expected but is useful none the less.

To finish - may I say no hard feelings! I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am man enough to take criticism if it is warranted. I am not so insular that I don't realise that Scouting may not have been the wonderful experience I had as a Lad (in fact I haven't left yet!) But personally I feel if I can say I have helped just 1 young person (there are girls in scouts too) to grow and become more skilled and self reliant to face the scary world out there then I'm happy! Scouting may have not been a bed of roses for all but that is the same in every organisation / school etc.

Right enough of my rambleings! - now get out in the woods and enjoy yourselves

Regards
Graham

'Try it! - You might like it!'

..... Scouts, Join the Adventure!"

*************************************************************************************