Hunting Rabbits

[jonajuna]

for those interested, heres the CPS document guidance on wildlife offences

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/v_to_z/wildlife_offences/#a46

 

[Adze]

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of a sapling snare like the one you illustrated is it's self locking - using the spring of the sapling and the weight of the prey to prevent it opening.

It would fall foul of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, I've quoted the relevant bit.

11. Prohibition of certain methods of killing or taking wild animals

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person—

(a)sets in position any self-locking snare which is of such a nature and so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild animal coming into contact therewith;

(b)uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal any self-locking snare, whether or not of such a nature or so placed as aforesaid, any bow or cross-bow or any explosive other than ammunition for a firearm; F1 . . .

(c)uses as a decoy, for the purpose of killing or taking any wild animal, any live mammal or bird whatever, [F2 ; or

(d)knowingly causes or permits to be done an act which is mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this section,]

he shall be guilty of an offence.

Section 11 part 1 - self locking snare which causes bodily injury. I would be delighted to be wrong.

Cheers,

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

I have snared for both rabbits and foxes, although now I dont snare rabbits, mainly because there arnt any here! I set maybe 10 fox snares a week, we are trying very hard to get the cappercallie back as well as conserving the birdlife we have at the moment, the two biggest problems for the cappercallie are 1.Foxes 2.Ramblers/Twitchers (I dont mean to cause a riot on here, If you like I can chunter on that in another thread). Snares could also be a problem to the birdlife if you are not carefull. That is why IMO knowing your ground and placing your snares correctly is the most important thing when your snaring, badgers, deer, grouse, ptarmigan and woodcock can all get caught up far too easily if you dont look carefully at the location and study the tracks and also what you see moving at your site. I have 23 sites that I have found suitable for fox snaring on the 24,000 acres that we have. These are areas I have identified as "safe" from non-target species. Im not saying that theese are areas where you will see an NT species, but the chances are slim. The snares we use are 6 strand stainless wire, aboot 500lb breaking strain, with a safety stop 10" from the eye. Everytime I reset a snare i check that its in good condition and running smoothly. The snares are pegged down with wire setting peg, and then secured with a marquee peg, as apossed to the traditional ash stake, hammered into the ground with 2 8' pieces of 550lb para cord (one as a back up) attached to the snare. This IMO is the best set up Ive come across. Touch wood, and this is a big claim, I have yet to have a break away fox, or one die in the snare with this method. Once a fox is caught it is dispached with either a 12g shotgun using BB shot, or a centrefire rifle. If (and it has happened twice with the new style rig [a grouse and a hare] ) a NT species is caught it can be released unharmed, If a little shaken up.


I hope I have explained myself a little (as I think Im speaking for gamekeeping here). I dont have a problem with people who dont agree with it, as I understand that it is quite contriversial. But what I do have a problem with (and I hope nobody here does it) is vadalism of snares. I will continue in another post, duty calls

Sam

 

[Nemesis]

Out of interest though (and its genuine interest not a veiled dig. As I say I don't have first hand experience) does the wire not cut into the animals flesh or do they not chew limbs to try and get free or anything like that?

Once they are snared I would imagine they would try and escape and can't see how they could do that without pain?

 

[hedgerow pete]

thats the reason why i dont snare any more , yes they are when properly set very effective but when not , as in set by a muppet called hedgerow pete they have a habbit of catching other things aswell, i much prefeer cage trapping as what ever is caught is easily released alive and well some are evan better for it as in hedge hogs are dosed with a flea powder first just help them along and dont forget they have just had a free meal aswell,

rabbiting with nets and ferrets are much more deserving and more sporting to me and a lot of fun too

 

[jonajuna]

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of a sapling snare like the one you illustrated is it's self locking - using the spring of the sapling and the weight of the prey to prevent it opening.

It would fall foul of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, I've quoted the relevant bit.



Section 11 part 1 - self locking snare which causes bodily injury. I would be delighted to be wrong.

Cheers,

i see what you are saying, self locking snares are quite specific in design though. i would say that the weight of the quarry would be certainly hold the snare tight, but that it still wouldnt be "locked" by a non retracting "lock" if you see what i mean

in addition a decent sapling with good spring should (in theory) kill the animal upon setting off preventing the suffering and slow death that may be caused by mechanical/friction locks on a peg snare

certainly when i have made them (and set off and subsequently dismantled) the force with which a rabbit would be snatched should afford an instant dispatch of it

quite possibly an issue with unintended animals getting caught in it, a deer by its leg would be a potential problem and cause undue suffering. an issue there perhaps?

would be great to get a definitive answer on this from a knowledgeable soul

 

[phill_ue]

I was under the impression that anything other than a pegged snare was illegal other than specific humane traps used in conjunction with a licence. I couldn't point you to a specific law though.

 

[jonajuna]

Out of interest though (and its genuine interest not a veiled dig. As I say I don't have first hand experience) does the wire not cut into the animals flesh or do they not chew limbs to try and get free or anything like that?

Once they are snared I would imagine they would try and escape and can't see how they could do that without pain?

a well set rabbit snare should take the animal around its neck, it will take the animal some force to cut into itself and would cause enough discomfort (i would imagine) to prevent struggling to the point of pain. the (as been said) just sit and try to hide

a "stop" (which i believe is (almost?) legally required) will prevent too much pressure being put to the neck as well as protect other untended animals from getting stuck

thats the reason why i dont snare any more , yes they are when properly set very effective but when not , as in set by a muppet called hedgerow pete they have a habbit of catching other things aswell, i much prefeer cage trapping as what ever is caught is easily released alive and well some are evan better for it as in hedge hogs are dosed with a flea powder first just help them along and dont forget they have just had a free meal aswell,

as mentioned above, stops will prevent this to an extent along with careful placement

ive found the defra code of practice on snaring which is interesting and fairly commonsensical for a dotgov type body

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/management/documents/snares-cop.pdf

it refers to snares being free running and self releasing when the animal relaxes...... the (intended) instant death i would suspect arises from sapling spring snares would afford complete relaxation and negate the need for the snare to release

 

[Adze]

i see what you are saying, self locking snares are quite specific in design though. i would say that the weight of the quarry would be certainly hold the snare tight, but that it still wouldnt be "locked" by a non retracting "lock" if you see what i mean

in addition a decent sapling with good spring should (in theory) kill the animal upon setting off preventing the suffering and slow death that may be caused by mechanical/friction locks on a peg snare

certainly when i have made them (and set off and subsequently dismantled) the force with which a rabbit would be snatched should afford an instant dispatch of it

quite possibly an issue with unintended animals getting caught in it, a deer by its leg would be a potential problem and cause undue suffering. an issue there perhaps?

would be great to get a definitive answer on this from a knowledgeable soul

Indeed - although I think the part about 'causing bodily harm' is the key portion, after all death is about as severe as bodily harm gets really.

As Cael Nu Mara pointed out, with a conventional snare there's an element of catch and release of unintended victims - it might not be 100% in practice perhaps, but it's a bit better than the alternative.

Possibly the potential for the instant, but accidental, dispatch of Mrs. Albrights toy poodle or little Janey Cartwrights prize winning siamese is the reason for the spirit of the legislation, if not the wording.

Either way you're spot on with wanting a definitive answer from a grown up

 

[jonajuna]

causing bodily harm such as death, is (if you are to eat it) the purpose of snaring the animal, it isnt illegal to snare and kill rabbits, nor is the CoP law, although i agree should be adhered to

the refs i can see with regards not causing bodily harm or death realtes to schedule 6 animals:

Legal obligations for snare users in England and Wales
Under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 it is an offence to set in position
any trap or snare calculated (intended) to cause bodily injury to any wild
animal included in Schedule 6 of that Act which comes into contact with it, or
to use a trap or snare for the purpose of killing such a wild animal; relevant
species listed in Schedule 6 include badger, polecat, otter, red squirrel,
hedgehog and pine marten. Snaring of protected species is not permitted
unless the person has been authorised by a specific licence under section 16
of the Act.
The Deer Act 1991 makes it an offence to set in position any trap or snare
calculated to cause bodily injury to any deer coming in contact with it, or to
use any trap or snare for the purpose of killing or taking any deer.

with regards foxes:

Snares must only be used as a restraining rather than a killing device. Snares
should be set in open sites such as field edges, tramlines, along runs, trails or
tracks, such as vehicle tracks, where foxes are likely to travel through. They
must not be set in sites cluttered by obstacles such as saplings, hedges,
walls, fences or gates, which increase the risk of injury as a result of the
snares becoming entangled.

but when on rabbits:

Rabbit snares should be set on well-used rabbit runs, in short vegetation,
close to the harbourage from which rabbits gain access to crops. They must
not be set in sites cluttered by obstacles such as saplings, hedges, walls,
fences or gates, which increase the risk of injury. Sites that pose the risk of
fatal entanglement should be avoided.

so no mention of rabbits snares not being lawful if intending to kill quick by snapping its neck with the force of the sapling spring

i wouldve thought, if such snaring technique was illegal, it would be mentioned as such in the DEFRA CoP surely? other legislation is refferred to, the CWAct doesnt specify either that such a snare is prohibited, all reference to spring snares refer to the metal, mechanical type

my last birthday cards told me life begins at 40, its not a grown up i need, rather pointing to a definitive answer as i haven't been able to find one. generally in law, if its not written down, it doesn't exist

 

[Adze]

I think you might have read my last as having more sarcasm than mild humour - one of my next birthday cards will probably allude to 40 being the new 30 or some other such guff - I mentioned grown ups only to illustrate that I'm not one, at least when it comes to the finer points of trapping law I intended it to be read as 'responsible knowledgeable person', apologies if that wasn't clear.

There was a post earlier, sorry forgot whose, which mentioned the CPS guidelines on animal stuff. In that was a pointer to the Spring Trap Acceptance Order 1995 - essentially for a spring trap to be legal it must be listed in the schedule of that order or be mechanically equivalent to it.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19952427_en_2.htm

It would certainly be argued, should it ever come to court, that a sapling powered spring snare is a spring trap and it would likely be successfully argued that it cannot be mechanically similar to anything on the schedule, the variables and vaguaries of saplings being what they are.

Cheers,

 

[nuggets]

for rabbits !!---- sites that pose the risk of fatal entanglement should be avoided !!


is that not what snaring is all about ???

 

[FreddyFish]

I don't have any legal quotes for you, but everyone I have ever spoken to on the subject has always agreed that the only legal snare in England & Wales is the stake and free running loop style.
I have not seen anything to in this thread to convince me otherwise... (yet..)

 

[jonajuna]

adze, i took no offence and saw your wink smiley likewise i make every effort to delay growing up! my wife chirpily tells everyong she has 3 kids, not just the 2 short ones!


all i can find is the same, people on forums or in blogs or the like saying, "these are illegal under uk law" (including deadfalls etc)

no one anywhere has cited the law that makes them illegal

my interpretation (while i accept i am not a lawyer so may well be wrong) of the spring traps approval order is that it specify which mechanical "spring loaded jaws" type traps are legal, these are clearly different from a snare noose that when set off tightens around the rabbits neck and whips them up into the air

i am yet to see any mention in any act or by any authority such as basc, defra, rspca that states deadfalls or this type of snare to be illegal

all the same, i do hear that the common understanding is such, but surely it must be written and clear somewhere.

im just intrigued thats all, peg snares do the job so negating the need for anything else

 

[hedgerow pete]

hurplegrappers, somewhere at the bottom of this thread we started speaking about rabbit hunting with ferrets and snares there are now loads of snare posts but little about ferrets so i will go back to the ferreting ideas, the reason why i dont use snares is because of what they could? catch and the fact that i like ferreting as a sport rather than a cold meathod of catching , with ferrets and my whippet we can have a rabbit bolt a hole , out run the dog and live for another day and hurraa for the rabbits sometimes we forget , miss a netting hole and the lot runs past and then we have fun trying agian, so get some ferrets and enjoy your self

there are a few decent videos on you tube abd ebay that cost a few quid well worth it if you want to see it done well

 

[wattsy]

i see what you are saying, self locking snares are quite specific in design though. i would say that the weight of the quarry would be certainly hold the snare tight, but that it still wouldnt be "locked" by a non retracting "lock" if you see what i mean

in addition a decent sapling with good spring should (in theory) kill the animal upon setting off preventing the suffering and slow death that may be caused by mechanical/friction locks on a peg snare

certainly when i have made them (and set off and subsequently dismantled) the force with which a rabbit would be snatched should afford an instant dispatch of it

quite possibly an issue with unintended animals getting caught in it, a deer by its leg would be a potential problem and cause undue suffering. an issue there perhaps?

would be great to get a definitive answer on this from a knowledgeable soul

self locking snares are defined as any snare that doesn't release pressure when the animal stops struggling i think all snares have to be free running now

 

[jonajuna]

hurplegrappers, somewhere at the bottom of this thread we started speaking about rabbit hunting with ferrets and snares there are now loads of snare posts but little about ferrets so i will go back to the ferreting ideas, the reason why i dont use snares is because of what they could? catch and the fact that i like ferreting as a sport rather than a cold meathod of catching , with ferrets and my whippet we can have a rabbit bolt a hole , out run the dog and live for another day and hurraa for the rabbits sometimes we forget , miss a netting hole and the lot runs past and then we have fun trying agian, so get some ferrets and enjoy your self

the reason i dont go ferreting is because i wouldnt hunt with sport as a consideration. not into terrorising animals for fun. hunting and trapping, humanely, for food is a world apart

not 'anti' what you do, i just personally don't want to do it

 

[Cael Nu Mara]

Some really interesting comments on this one lads! I remind you that snares are used by the RSPCA to catch foxes for research purposes... And the RSPB for fox control on their twitcher resorts.


Sam

 

[hurplegrappers]

I have recently over xmas studied the ideas of taking up ferreting again after many many years of being away from the rabbit warrens, heres the costs, all prices are rough and based alot on ebay because of the cheapness(quality??) of the products

ferret cage , home made, free timber, pay for iron works and netting. £30, cage very large, able to run 4 ferrets

ferrets, costs differ depending on where and who you talk to , cannock ferret rescue charges £50 per ferret to pay for it to be neutored and someone will say you can have one of mine for a £10 so make your own choice?

ferret locator, to be honest you would be very silly not to buy one, a new one with two collers and reciver is £160 , dont belive anyone that says they are only £30 on ebay, as they are lieing to you. a second hand one on ebay will easily reach £70 without a chase. some time a lot more

nets, depends what you want, long nets or purse nets, Purse nets are roughly £15 for 10 nets cheaply made, yes you can buy the twine and make them your selves, allow an hour per net for the first twenty and after that you should be able to knock one out in 30 mins easy, how many will you need, the dreaded question. start with twenty and miss a few rabbits, most netters that i used to run with could carry 100 on the first ever time on a warren, but what you do is after the days netting, you go around and fill every rabbit hole / burrow in slightly, so when the next time you come along all the old dead burrows are still sealed and only the new ones are open, that way you will only needs say 40 + nets

long nets these are used in the same way but we surround the warren rather than the holes, average prices are around a pound per metre, so we either get 25,50, 75 or 100 metre nets, best price i have seen for a long net is £89 for 100 metres plus extra for the poles,say a pound each unless you cut your own.

now after that lot which is to be fair, the most exspenses are a one of. lets talk running costs

food dry or wet cat food or propper ferret food £5+ a week
beddding , cage cleaning,etc etc £5 per week
vet bills , say i allow £100 per year ( just a guess but i am sure someone will pick me up on it)
what about a ferret carry box to go to the field and back , transport , your car or someone elses??

then after all that is paid for, you now have to start the hardest work , and thats finding someone that will allow a perfect stranger on to his land to catch rabbits, i dont know about you but my old fashioned way of doing that involved bottles of scotch being delivered to certian farmers to aplease them, and many a time i have HAD TO go to the pub to buy a farmers son/lad/mate/employee a beer or two or twenty

yes an air rifle is cheaper to set up and to buy , i have several , at these costs£28, £120, £250, all second hand and serviced from the gunsmith i brought them from,


now after all of that , am I anti ferret Hurplegrappers, absolutly not , I love ferrets and using them, always have done always will do , as for catching rabbits the nets i will start to make when i can spare the money from my giro and the cage will get built when i can source a decent and clean supply of pallets rather than buying a propper ferret cage


now that i have finished , if you do keep ferrets and can improve or better my prices please do as they are only a starting point , you never know there might evam be someone local that will sell you a couple of ferrets

Thanks for this info pete, good man.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Interestingly, nobody has mentioned catapults yet.