How heavy is your kit?

[jdlenton]

Does that mean that If I carry Ray, Lofty or Mors then I am travelling lite???

they can carry themselves so if you look at it like that i guess you are

I know what you mean i can do bow drill and hand drill I carry my fire steel with my knife but i have always got a match case and some dry tinder on me JIC
you can always crave out a log and boil with rocks but i carry a pot a burner and some meths

my point on the multiple jobs of equipment i think is neatly illustrated by the new spoon I'm making it has a table spoon size bowl on one end and a tea spoon on the other one now i dont need two spoons just one less load same jobs done. Your right about lack of kit being a killer in the quest for a lighter pack no essential items should be left behind because they might not get used or they are just too heavy as soon as you do this sods law will come back to bite you
in my quest to carry less weight for the same utility i have maintained a kit list fro the past few years and pack by it every time i go out for 1 night or more and on my return i check off on the list what got used and what didn't after a few trips I came to the conclusion that there were somethings on my list that never got used and i decided were not worth taking as one or more other pieces of kit had done their job, there were pieces of kit i needed that i didn't have and there were other pieces that i never had call to use and hope i never have to that will always be in my pack.

James

 

[HuBBa]

A good skill that is practised heavily in technical diving (ie. the step beyond recreational diving) is to constantly question your gear. At any point, anyone should point at any item and if you cannot give a good reason why thats there, off it goes.

So a start is to look at where you are going and what knowledge you do have.

"I want to bring a stove. " - If you are in a heavily forested area and you are very good at making up fire, this would be pretty unnecessary to bring. If you are in a sparsly forested area, or have problems getting fire even with napalm then this would probably be essential gear.

"I am bringing a tent/tarp" - again, is it essential? Are you good at making shelters? Is it in a heavily forested area so the wind wont get to you? etc.

"I am taking my axe" - Will a folded saw be better? Or even just a knife. How large trees / logs do you think you will split / cut down? Will you be making your own shelter? If so, this might be an essential item. If you are bringing basha, hammoc and bivvi bag, it might not.

And so on. Question your equipment. And as Mr. Mears often says in his films "Equipment is heavy, knowledge is not." (or something like that

 

[Simca]

Carry less by knowing more is the biggest load of rubbish that I have ever heard, it is not the knowledge of how to do things that matters it is the practice that goes along with that knowledge and overestimating ones abilities is a killer.

I think "knowing" in this sentence means practical knowledge, about the techniques, and about the place you will be.

My pack weight is ~10kg for summer and ~13kg for winter, including food&water (3l) for a 2 nights weekend outing. As James said it's important to make yourself think about multiple uses of gear. If i bring my bundeswehr poncho, that will be my raingear, windbreak, and shelter tarp, sometimes my bivi "bag". Sometimes ask yourself about a piece of kit: "what is it good for?" If you can find only one answer, consider to replace it to a more miltipurpose item.
Sometimes it's good to go a little bit heavier, bringing good food and not just dehydrated stuff. But if you bring yourself the comfort of your home, then you can as well just stay at home.

Ofcourse all this does not apply to first aid kit!

 

[Ryan Woods]

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[leon-1]

I think "knowing" in this sentence means practical knowledge, about the techniques, and about the place you will be.

Practical knowledge is having practiced something, this to me is "experience", not "knowing"

I know how edge emitting laser diodes work, it does not mean however that I could make one.

My pack weight virtually never changes, why? Because I plan not for a day or 2, the season is the thing that changes my pack weight and even then not by a lot.

It is experience of a lot of enviroments and different climatic conditions that has caused this. It is common sense to carry safety kit especially when alone, as it is to carry a first aid kit when dealing with cutting tools. I don't ditch spare kit (by spare kit I mean I have always got a complete change of clothing that will remain dry even if it and my pack sank to the bottom of a river) as I know from experience that it can make a lot of difference especially if the weather has caught you out. I don't carry home comforts.

I have no problems with carrying tools that are multi purpose, I carry enough of them myself, but people cut corners when they are trying to reduce weight in thier packs, this in turn can be dangerous.

Knowledge tempered by practice = experience and if you have enough of that then great, you can pretty much ditch anything that you want.

As the man said "a little knowledge can go a long way, but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

 

[bambodoggy]

It is experience of a lot of enviroments and different climatic conditions that has caused this. It is common sense to carry safety kit especially when alone, as it is to carry a first aid kit when dealing with cutting tools. I don't ditch spare kit (by spare kit I mean I have always got a complete change of clothing that will remain dry even if it and my pack sank to the bottom of a river) as I know from experience that it can make a lot of difference especially if the weather has caught you out. I don't carry home comforts.

Yep, joking aside this is why my kit is usually heavy. I stand by what I said before in that I'm happy to carry it so it's not an issue for me and I'd rather have the right kit at the right time then wish I'd brought it when I hadn't.

When I go into the mountains I carry a red flare and red smoke combination signal...it's heavy and I've never used it once but it's always there jic.

I do believe in "Carrying less by knowing more", but it does have limitations and as Leon says it has to be backed up with practice and experience. For example I carry about 20 to 30 metres of paracord and a 12 metres 10mm line in my pack, I am quite capable of making natural cordage and indeed natural rope but am I really going to do this on a two day trip? It could easily take me the two days to make a good quality rope....so I carry things I could do without due to my "knowledge" but due to time constraints I carry them. Same goes for knives when I could use stone that I find along the way.

We have to bear in mind that for most of us Bushcraft is just a hobby and there's never enough time to do it as much as we'd like.

As a seperate point I've never really seen the point of ultra-lite weight camping and hiking...I've nothing against it but cutting a toothbrush in half to save weight just seems to be bordering on the obsessive to me lol and they never seem to get where they're going any faster than me

Oh well....each to their own I guess

Bam.

 

[addyb]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but my pack weight for a week long mountaineering trip used to be about 40 pounds, and my Father's used to be 75 or 80 when he was doing trips in Peru and Afghanistan. (And I'm not kidding) 40 pounds for me is a heck of a lot, I'm five foot nine and weigh 115 pounds so it was basically slow capitulation. And that right there is the reason I started learning about bushcraft because I realized that I didn't need to carry all of that weight to enjoy myself in the outdoors. And as Ray Mears says "Knowledge doesn't weigh anything" [sic]

Adam

 

[HuBBa]

Well, a little clarification then =) I did not mean in my post that you should just ditch everything and go out with just your experience (or knowledge . What i said was to question why you are bringing a certain piece of equipment that may or may not have any use in the environment you are going to.

In the end, this is one of many approaches. And not all like it so its ultimately up to you and your own judgement.

Ps. when im doing technical dives i'm carrying about 75 kg / 165 pound worth of equipment and every single item on me is there for a reason. Good thing it's pretty much neutral bouyancy when in the water Ds.

 

[simonsays]

28lbs!! Is this normal? How much does your kit weigh for a 2 day outing?

Pablo[/QUOTE]

Sadly my kit for *any* outing weighs too much (See my avatar). My pack for a recent 4 day walk staying in youth hostels weighed over 30lbs.
I may not have lightest pack in the world but I do enjoy creature comforts whilst out and about

simon

 

[Cairodel]

To give a little perspective to this, when SWMBO and I walk the dogs in the desert, we carry around 10.5ltrs (10.5kgs - 23lbs) of water with us. This does not include survival kit, FAK and any small food items we may take. This is just for a 1.5 - 2 hr "ramble" in the desert... it's all down to your environment what you want to take, or more specifically what you feel you NEED take with you.
Just my 2p....

 

[benp1]

bump!

interested in hearing about this.

am just packing my bag for a 1 night stay. definitely taking more than i need as the car isn't far, but its weighing in at about 13kg! That's without food and water too

I've got hennessy, sleeping bag, roll mat, trangia, fuel, stainless steel pots for BBQ/fire, kit bag with way too much in, brew stuff, axe, knives etc

 

[Chainsaw]

I'm off for a 3 dayer at a bushcraft/survival school this weekend and have just weighed my self at 11kg/24lbs. Not including food or water (a kilo of snacks isn't food! )

It's in a 25ltr ruck and a bigbumbag with sleeping bag on top, mat and bivvy slung and crusader kit in a pouch. Sounds reasonable to me

Cheers,

Alan

 

[commandocal]

Pfft lol i feel abit stupid here, i ALWAYS go a bit over the top on kit normally for a 1 night camp in the woods its around the 50lb mark :S 20 litre jerry,all tinned food,crap i dont need lol , carrying it is a **** but i guess 10% more effort carrying it is 50% more comfort,
saying that i can normally have a good 3 dayer on just my webbing about 20lb, my bergen stays unpacked msot of the time with half the stuff unused, stupid really

 

[Fin]

Pablo,

Considering you're carrying water as well, I would say that you're travelling pretty light for a UK bushcrafter in this rotten summer!

I see, like me, you like to cover all of the shelter options and I'm amazed that you can fit it all in a 55ltr sack - I could obviously do with some packing tips from you! my usual problem is, not so much weight, as bulk.

It's always a good question and in my experience the answer can be found in prioritising between weight carried against foot milage expected. To do this you need to define the aim of your outing. If the aim of your outing is to spend a couple of days in a base camp set up, with the occasional foray - not too far from where you left the car - then take the kitchen sink! If, on the other hand your aim is to travel from A to B, 30 miles cross country in 2 days - then pare the weight down to bare essentials.

28lbs? not bad at all mate and from your blogs, you're experienced enough to know what works for you - although I would lose the SA Trangia and consider something like Wayland's Morrison Hobo stove set up - which I'm currently ripping off/ working on

 

[Greg]

Depending on what I am doing it could be anything from 20lb to 60lb.
All depends on how long I intend to stay out, if I'm going to have to tab anywhere or if I will be working from a basecamp.

 

[twisted firestarter]

generally speaking if I can lift my backpack on without the hernia stitches bulging I've forgotten something :thinkerg:

 

[RobertRogers]

I carry a digital camera and tripod, GPS unit, rock hammer and chisels and gold pan (always prospecting the areas I am in), plus a good survival kit so I can stay in the mountains overnight if need be. I also like to have an American Tomahawk, which helps a great deal for bushwacking...so even just a day hike means about 25 pounds.

 

[Pablo]

It's good to see the original post revived.

A year or so down the line and I can say that kit for a overnighter now fits into a 30 litre sack. I've not weighed it recently, but I will do this weekend and post the result.

I've learnt to cut down on food, although water is still a problem. I've experimented with cooksets and now, if I'm not using an open fire, I merely have a trangia burner, crusader cup and an old hexy burner stand. I take *just* enough meths to last.

The sleep system hasn't changed too much, in fact it might have got a bit heavier, as I now prefer a 3x3 Tatonka tarp and the DDhammock is the newer version which is longer.

I suppose this proves that with experience, you can reduce weight/bulk by experimenting if you want to. I still like to be comfortable though!

Cheers,

Pablo..

 

[gregorach]

I reckon I can do an overnighter (with a long walk in and out) with less than 10kg, including food and water.

Spare clothing is a funny one... I always used to carry a complete change of clothing, and I don't think I've ever needed it - but you need to be prepared for the worst. So what I do now is rather than carry a spare pair of trousers, I figure that a pair of thermal longjohns and a set of waterproofs (both of which I'd probably have anyway) will do the job.Stuff like that...

The other big place to make savings in in you sleeping kit. Most of the year, I'll manage with a 1-2 season down bag that weighs about 400g (Rab Quantum 200). Sure, it's not very warm, but I've got longjohns and a spare thermal baselayer in my spare clothing, and if needed I can use a liner.

My hammock setup is surprisingly heavy (by my standards) - I think it works out to about 3kg all told. So if weight is the issue, it's tarp and bivy bag. Next thing is going to be replalcing my old "classic" thermarest (800g for a 3/4 length) with a spiffy ProLite one - that'll save at least another couple o' hundred grams (although I'm sick of short mats, so it might have to be a regular).

I recently picked up some super-lightweight dehydrated rations (Pack'n'Go) - 2,500 kcal at about 550g. I'm usually in areas where water is available (although some treatment required) so that's not a worry. I'll typically only carry 1L at a time.

Shaving a couple of kgs off your pack can really make a difference when slogging up a hill!

 

[oilyrag]

The amount of kit I carry depends on the season or altitude. Next week I start a two week trek over the Alps, with several summits > 10000ft and 112 miles in length. I'll be hauling 42lbs as I'm geared for 30 degrees Celsius to minus 30 degrees Celsius. I have 3 days between each food re-supply.