How do you get a publisher?

[torjusg]

I have almost finished my first of at least two books about primitive technology. The first book will cover all the technology and skills needed to survive from scratch in a short term (a month or so). The second one will cover much more advanced things, including building an earthlodge, spruce bark canoe, skis etc...

And no, I have yet to try to survive for any lenght of time with stone tools only. At present I have only tried all of the skills seperately.

I haven't dared to write in english, I don't feel that comfortable with the language. In time I was hoping to get it translated though.

Any tips on how to get a publisher? I don't think my home-market is that big, how few estimated copies sold do you think a publisher would find profitable to print? How much do you think a translation of about 50 A4 pages would cost?

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Abbe Osram]

Hi mate,

If I would be a publisher, putting up my money for your book in the hopes that we both would make a nice cut, I first would see that you have marketing value!
Thats the most important thing. Why should people buy your book, what makes it special, do the people know you, is there anything sticking out that makes your book leaping from the shelfs filled with millions of millions other books?

Lars Monsen walked through the entire Canada and Alaska getting a lot of press, producing a movie etc etc. I know if he writes a book I would produce it.

Les Stroud was living for a year in the Wilderness with his wife only with material from the time of the mountaineers. He made a movie, has a TV show and I am sure soon there will be some books coming out.

Lars Fält was training the Swedish Rangers Survival in Years, Learned from the SAS and Marines and wrote a very good book.

As a producer I would ask you to get your name upfront. If you would talk to the University, norwegian TV of trying out to live from the Bush in one year. The University could run its tests on you, the Army could be interested the TV for sure wants to see in your soul etc etc. After that, with all that bag of experience I would want a book from you.

There was is a great German Survival guy who walked through entire Germany only eating what he found on the road, having no kit with him, only the cloth he had on his body. The rules he put up for him was that he was not allowed to use any man made object, like bridges etc. So he had to swim through the rivers.
That mate quite a stirr in Germany, everyone wanted to see how he is doing.
And I remember seeing him 20 years ago on TV when he squizzed a snake to get a frog out of the stomach and ate it up. In the show he was showing too how he cought a wild boar with his hand etc etc.

Off course the guy wrote a book and it was an instand hit.

This year he will be 70 years old and his next adventure is that they drop him from a helicopter naked into the Amazon without anything. That book I would like to produce too.

Ok, long story short. Think if your work really has something to sell. If you have your pitch clear and know the answers, go and call around, look in the books of existing wilderness books and write to the same publishers.

The Good life people (Amos) wrote about the change of their life and it sells great. They got Ray M. to write the Forward. If you get Ray to write something than you made it. If you believe that he would not like to write something in your book, your book will not be much worth right now. Think clearly, do you think that Ray would sign Lars Monsens Book? Sure he would, Lars Fälts books, Sure he would. Why would he sign or why would he not sign your book?

If you have done you homework you will make it otherwise I am afraid they send you the pink slip with the text. Thank you for your interest but unfortunately we are bla bla bla.......

hope that I am not too depressing and that you can turn the info into something usefull to your project

Good luck
cheers
Abbe

 

[Marts]

Target publishers of similar style books.

Get someone famous to write a forward - ask lots of famous (and connected to the subject) peeps to read it and see what they think. You may get replies from them with useable quotes.

Other than this the guaranteed way to do it is to buy an existing publishing company and then force them to release it

 

[torjusg]

Thank you very much for your input Abbe.

Well, I am clearly not trying to aspire to the feats of Lars Monsen. Neither do I expect to come close to his sales volumes.

My name is not known, at least outside the western part of my homecounty (Telemark). I do have a plan of a serious PR stunt for promoting my book, classified at the present moment. From what you are suggesting, it may be a good idea to use it upfront, in order to get a publisher. I have to think that through.

Most books I have read on this subject, and it is starting to become a few, I think focuses too much on a few technologies. This one will cover, not every available alternative, but a set of technologies/skills that is needed to survive primitively in the temperate zone. Also, I want to include alot more pictures and illustrations than I have commonly seen.

And of course, integrity is important. So I will only write about things I have done and succeded in personally.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[torjusg]

Target publishers of similar style books.

Get someone famous to write a forward - ask lots of famous (and connected to the subject) peeps to read it and see what they think. You may get replies from them with useable quotes.

Other than this the guaranteed way to do it is to buy an existing publishing company and then force them to release it

Well, I am worried that my age and lack of fame will keep them from even bothering to answer such an request.

Don't have the money for that last option.... Unfortunately.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Abbe Osram]

Thank you very much for your input Abbe.

Well, I am clearly not trying to aspire to the feats of Lars Monsen. Neither do I expect to come close to his sales volumes.

My name is not known, at least outside the western part of my homecounty (Telemark). I do have a plan of a serious PR stunt for promoting my book, classified at the present moment. From what you are suggesting, it may be a good idea to use it upfront, in order to get a publisher. I have to think that through.

Most books I have read on this subject, and it is starting to become a few, I think focuses too much on a few technologies. This one will cover, not every available alternative, but a set of technologies/skills that is needed to survive primitively in the temperate zone. Also, I want to include alot more pictures and illustrations than I have commonly seen.

And of course, integrity is important. So I will only write about things I have done and succeded in personally.

Torjus Gaaren

Sound cool mate, I believe too that having the PR gick first is better and gives you a chance to check the stuff you write about too.
Then off course there is a way to produce it yourself and sell it over the internet.
Still, make yourself know first.

Ahh, before starting your PR mission, have a webpage and invite the people to watch you preparing for it, then run the webpage while doing your stunt, and the follow up. Dia shows etc etc and than you hit the market with your book.
If you dont find a publisher you could sell it from the booktable of your shows and your webpage.


Good luck mate!
cheers
Abbe

 

[Ahjno]

Torjus,

Amongst many other things I'm working on my genealogy / family tree (see, it's bushcraft related ). Did some research about publishing it (amount of books needed, etc.) and found there are a few publishers (printers) who do any amount of books (between 10 and 1000 or more). Price depending on quantity, sort paper, cover, etc.
Some even get you a ISBN number for a few extra quid.

Maybe there are like wise publishers in Norway?
Did you tried the yellow pages?

Other option would be to have a look at a big copy center (like Kinko's - IIRC they are world wide in every major city - EDIT: not in Norway, but if you want a test version by them made here in NL, I'm sure I can help you out - though I think you want to keep it close to home )
They print as much as you want and even bind it (paperback).
http://www.fedex.com/us/officeprint/pdf/finishingservice.pdf?link=4

As for the targetgroup, I would seriously consider to have it translated in english, so you can sell it worldwide. There are more people who are able to read english than norwegian

Well just my 2 eurocent

 

[Moonraker]

Firstly Torjus I think that it is great that you want to write such a book and share your experience and ideas with others. For me that is one of the main reasons to publish. However you need to be aware of just how tough a world book publishing is, especially these days when supermarkets like Tesco (in the UK) and online giants like Amazon really drive down the profit margins and even bestselling titles get reduced by 50% before they even get to the shelves! You can imagine who will receive less money for these deals to be possible

I recently helped a friend in Norway (already published in NO) translate his work into English and learnt quite a bit about the subject doing this. He was OK in English but needed help to check how the text was for an English reader, giving suggestions for writing style and checking normal proofreading stuff like grammar, spelling errors etc. As it was not a bestseller he only had a very small budget and it was a way to move towards getting the book out in English.

Here is a copy of an email I sent him at the time after looking closely at the realities of trying to publish a book. It is aimed at the UK market but offers some useful general ideas:

There was an interesting article giving good detail on author's royalties in the UK by the famous author Phillip Pullman in the Guardian newspaper, about the possible abolition of RRP (or recommended retail price scheme where the price is fixed) but giving useful detail of current typical royalties in the UK (depends on hardback, paperback etc etc)

"At the moment, an author's income depends on royalties, which are calculated as a percentage of the recommended retail price - say 8% on average. The royalty on a book with an RRP of £15 would be roughly £1.20, whether or not the bookseller decides to sell it for three pounds less. This system has worked reasonably well for many years, though not many writers make much money; a recent survey by the Society of Authors found that three-quarters of the members made less than £20,000 a year. The royalty system has a sort of clarity and fairness about it.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,1161422,00.html

note this too:
But if there wasn't an RRP anymore, royalties would have to be calculated on some other basis, and the most likely one is a percentage of net receipts, or the money that the publisher actually gets from the bookseller. In order to produce a roughly equivalent income, authors will have to receive something like 25% - and they are not in the least likely to get it."

Note the difference between the royalty based upon the RRP paid regardless of the price the publisher actually sells it for, and the price based on the 'net' price they sell it for. Increasingly, with supermarkets and big bookshops squeezing margins, contracts offered to authors are now being increasingly based on 'net income', thus even less to the author (nothing to stop them discounting right down to nothing).

The going rates in the UK are around:

"With the novels the percentages these days are 7.5% trade paperback, 5% mass market paperback. Rarely, where there is a hardback edition published first, 10% might get mentioned. With picture books it is about 4% each to author and artist."

And to see the basic finances of a publisher:

How come?

Well, look at all the bits & pieces involved:
Print run @ £2 = 20%
Author royalty of, say, 10%
Discount to the shops: 50%
Distributor: 15%
That adds up to 95% already, before taking into account a portion of publisher’s salaries, adverts & promo, and all the other expenses involved in running a business.
It is true that publishers tend to make less out of a book than does the author.

Now consider scale. Here is one sobering fact:

The average number of books sold per book published in the UK is 250 books Remember that is the 'average' therefore many sell a lot less....

So, if you want to make loads of money publishing, then look elsewhere especially without celebratory status But don't let it daunt you, just open your eyes to the realities and find a way which could be possible for you, your budget and target audience

These days there are more and more options even at the low budget end, from a few A4 pages stapled together to eBooks and digital methods of publishing. Personally I think starting up a web site and building it up to gain exposure to people, then look at small steps to eventually producing a book etc is a good way. But it does depend on being prepared to do a lot of the work yourself to start with and committing to regular work, articles and relevant forum etc. If you have no idea on web design or running a smallish web site, or have friends who could help, then it is also tough.

There is a lot of rubbish on the web written about all this, and many companies offering self-pubIishing deals which seem reasonable and cheap but end up you paying up front and often losing cash and doing the same stuff for less. One of the better articles I found online which I thought set out the basics well and helped me understand it all better are here:

Some Thoughts on Writing by Phil Hine

Starting Out in Self-Publishing by Phil Hine

I don't want to put you off just to share some of the stuff I found when looking. The main thing is to start building up contacts with people who could help.

One thing I would say is never send the full text to anyone! But do put together a one-two page synopsis which captures the essence of the book/s and why someone would want to pay money for it. Also offer a sample chapter if requested. A few, well selected graphics/ photos will often help too.

Good luck

 

[torjusg]

Thank you all!

The average number of books sold per book published in the UK is 250 books Remember that is the 'average' therefore many sell a lot less....

Seems like it isn't going to be a gold-mine, but it still seems nice to have something on print.

And, by the way. Every writer with his book published in Norwegian is guaranteed to get a 1000 copies sold, as the government buys them and distributes them among the public liberaries. So even if noone reads the book, I will still get 1000 books of royalties.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Abbe Osram]

Thank you all!



Seems like it isn't going to be a gold-mine, but it still seems nice to have something on print.

And, by the way. Every writer with his book published in Norwegian is guaranteed to get a 1000 copies sold, as the government buys them and distributes them among the public liberaries. So even if noone reads the book, I will still get 1000 books of royalties.

Torjus Gaaren

Can I publish a book in norway too? 1000 pieces would solve my money worries! Boy!

cheers
Abbe

 

[torjusg]

Abbe

Here is something about this arrangement (You can read Norwegian?):
http://skrift.no/no/avtaler/innkjopsordningen.asp

Every year the government buys about 65 book titles foreign (but translated) in 500 pieces. But unfortunately this only imaginative writing, not technical literature.

Not mentioned on that page is that there is a test arrangement for Norwegian technical literature, so if you write some literature and publish it in Norway first (in Norwegian) you probably do get the 1000 copies.

And the books have to have a certain quality, whatever that means.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Abbe Osram]

Thanks mate! Thats a nice thing your State is doing.
Maybe you make it a children bushcraft book. Looks like they are looking a lot for children type of things if my norwegian is not letting me down.

all the best
Abbe

 

[Tony]

Have a look at something like this (sorry if it's already posted, I just skimmed the text) It's Lulu, an online publishing solution. You can upload your book, say how you'd like it to be bound etc and how much you want for it and they do the rest.

It works out that the book will be quite expensive (depending on how many are sold) but it does mean that it's available to people. If it ends up being successful you can get it published properly.

 

[Moonraker]

Thank you all!



Seems like it isn't going to be a gold-mine, but it still seems nice to have something on print.

And, by the way. Every writer with his book published in Norwegian is guaranteed to get a 1000 copies sold, as the government buys them and distributes them among the public liberaries. So even if noone reads the book, I will still get 1000 books of royalties.

Torjus Gaaren

If only the British government would be so supportive It would certainly help to have printed the book in Norway when looking to get it to a wider market.

 

[torjusg]

Thanks Tony!

I have to browse through all of the legal and agreement stuff there. Skimmed through and it seems a little complicated when it comes to paying taxes and stuff.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Tony]

The other alternative is to invest in a good printer, laser with duplex maybe, a binding machine (wire binding would be fine) and do them yourself to order. Set yourself up with a little website and then try to get them into shops. I expect the whole thing would cost you £400/500 which I know is quite an outlay but it would get you started.

Just a thought

 

[Abbe Osram]

The other alternative is to invest in a good printer, laser with duplex maybe, a binding machine (wire binding would be fine) and do them yourself to order. Set yourself up with a little website and then try to get them into shops. I expect the whole thing would cost you £400/500 which I know is quite an outlay but it would get you started.

Just a thought

Yes, that can work very well. I enjoyed a book called the "Power of Now". The writer was totally unknown and it was his first book. Never written anything before.
He printed the book, if I remember right only 200 copies and walked himself to the stores and asked they would put them up there. Some people bought the books and some customer found the book so great that they took them from canada to england in one of the biggest and most important spiritual bookshops in London. The owner saw the potential and order a lot books from Eckhart Tolle.

After that the book got onto the Oprah Winfrey Bookclub and was sold as a no 1 bestselling book in america. That guy started it by himself and it was his first book too.

amazing story!
cheers
Good luck
Abbe

 

[torjusg]

Maybe if I buy a printer, print 1000 copies of good quality and the government wants to buy them, I will already have earned the costs of the printing equipment and still have a decent sum of money for myself!?

If the printing and binding equipment costs 20000NOK (quite a lot, 1£ is about 12NOK) and each book is sold for 150NOK I would have 130000NOK in pure profit!

Torjus Gaaren