HIP Rubbish

[mr dazzler]

The rumours are true, the HIP energy efficiency survey is a complete waste of time and money. We had a valuer in, then a surveyor to do the energy efficiency survey (legal requirement now for a HIP) The bloke was a complete warbling muppet who knew precious little of what he spouted on about. I thought the energy survey was like an MOT for the hous'es energy usage/wastage etc WRONG, its actually just a pre conceived data collection exercise. I expalained (almost till I was blue in the face) my W_O_O_D_B_U_R_N_E_R is my primary source of heat in this hosehold, NOT my radiator's. Sorry sir our soft ware cannot accept that, you have radiator's, therefore our computer determins that THAT is your primary heat source (despite the fact our central heating is very rarely used- we installed a energy efficient (90-93% efficient actually) wood burner precisely because we didnt want to use an oil fired boiler to hat the house ) Its nothing to do with how much (or little) CO2 you produce, they are NOT concerned with how efficient (or otherwise) your boiler's/fire's etc are operating at or even if they work properly, just what system is in place. The report will inevitably be misleading and innacurate. You could have 2 identical houses, same design, volume, windos, insulation etc, one with a properly maintained efficient boiler, the other with a sooty, bad runner producing far more CO2/monoxides with worn nozzles etc, they'd get precisely the SAME rating. How stupid is that?

 

[John Fenna]

Ach - it is typical of this neoStalinist/totalitarian government!
They want all the information on everyone, cock it all up and sell/give it away/lose it so all your info is available to everyone.
Lets have a government that does what it is meant to - obay the electorate that it is meant to SERVE not abuse!

 

[tomtom]

Stay away from politics please chaps.

 

[John Fenna]

Sorry!
Just got fed up with things....
Won't do it again....

 

[gregorach]

The really annoying thing here (not just with the HIP surveys, which I don't know anything about, but the entire class of energy efficiency / CO2 surveys) is that it's really not that hard. All you really need to know to do the job properly is how much fuel of each type (gas, oil, electricity, wood) that you use, the size of the property, and the number of residents. OK, wood is slightly trickier, but at the end of the day the principle is the same - just figure out how many BTUs you use (either per person, or per square meter), then compare that number to standard benchmarks. You may have to take the local weather conditions into account, but there are standard methods for correcting to 20-year average conditions based on the weather in your area, and reasonable rules-of-thumb to deal with things like unusually exposed sites.

I did the one on the "Act on CO2" website (I'm not linking to it, it's rubbish) and it proceeded to give me 2 completely different figures: one based on my actual gas and electricity usage and one "based" (ie made up) on a bunch of questions about my domestic appliances. So what do they think I'm running my appliances on, pray tell, if it's not gas or electricty? Orgone energy? (Good luck finding a CO2 figure for that... )

I'm getting a horrible feeling that there's a lot of people out there making good money coming up with total rubbish that just encourages people to buy new appliances.

[I used to work in Energy and Environmental Management for the Scottish Office, specialising on the energy side. I've done the whole bit, from real-time usage monitoring through benchmarking and energy accounting - both weather-corrected and non-weather-corrected. I've read heaps of stuff from all sorts of research agencies on how to do it right, and I've yet to see a consumer-oriented survey or product that came even close.]

 

[EdS]

Problem is you use the woodburner as the primary source but next owners may use the oil as primary only having the fire/stove on from time to time.

Therefore it is the worst case scenario that wins out.

 

[mr dazzler]

Problem is you use the woodburner as the primary source but next owners may use the oil as primary only having the fire/stove on from time to time.

Therefore it is the worst case scenario that wins out.

Sorry I lost you there mate, surely the survey should reflect the way the house is operating now, not how it might operate at some time in the future? I am using a sustainable eco friendly efficient burning heat source, not oil, but the "soft ware" says otherwise, good old soft ware always knows best. If someone else bought the house and decided to use oil exclusively wouldnt they get a different "carbon footprint" than what I got at the moment? I was prepared to give the bearacrat's the benefit of the doubt and think oh well maybe if this survey is like a MOT for a house it might actually be a good thing. But inreality its clearly a recipe for statistic fixing to create a picture of "energy efficiency" which might well not be very accurate at all. It wouldnt surprise me if the free survey's advertised on telly end up putting your details on a data base to sell n to HIP companie's.
PS I know some folk have a narrower idea than other's do of what constitute "politic's", However I wasn't stirring up any political strife, I was merely commenting on what is obviously another expensive white elephant useless exercise, without any particular political angle.

 

[EdS]

agreed the system is a nightmare - we use oil and wood.

It is not a measure of the occupiers carbon foot print, but how engery effcient the house in in "normal" use. For example a house may have very inefficient heating say old coal burner - that would give a poor HIP and a potentially very high carbon footprint. Now in this situation if the folk didn't use the heating at all their footprint would be small but under "normal" use the property would be very ineffcient.

It also makes no account that living in a 200 year old property build from stone quarried by hand less than 1/2 mile from here and transported without fossil fuels give a lot lower whole life analysis (engery use or carbon footprint) than a modern house madeof fired brinks, transported on wagons and build with modern methods/materials.