Help with tent/tarp

[bbdave]

I have a budget of around £100 I will be looking to wild camp on canoe trips one or two nights most probably summer months to start with, as I have an old sleeping bag do I just buy a small tent or do I get a tarp and bivvy bag I could go for both a cheap tent and DDtarp and look to get a bivvy bag later.
Weight isn't a huge issue as it'll be carried in the canoe.
I am new to the bivvy bag idea am I right it is just a weather proof envelope for your sleeping bag?.

Ideas and advice welcome.

Dave

 

[bearbait]

A bivvy bag is a weather-proof envelope as you say...but it also traps a layer of warm(ish) air around you and your sleeping bag. Makes a real difference to your comfort in cooler and/or breezy conditions, perhaps adding 1/2 season or so to your sleeping bag rating.

 

[tiger stacker]

A tent keeps midges out, a tarp/basha will not. Bivvy bags do make a difference when using a basha.

 

[neoaliphant]

See current Aldis tent offer, £20

 

[Riven]

With tents being so cheap you could get all 3 for that kind of money. I have used a tarp/bivi bag whilst canoe camping in Sweden and the mossies were a pain, something that would have been easier in a tent.

 

[bbdave]

Excellent thanks any recommendations for tents and bivvys

Dave

 

[fluffkitten]

See current Aldis tent offer, £20

Looks a fair bit like the Yellowstone Matterhorn, if it is the same beware but £20 isn't too bad.

 

[ged]

Try everything. See what you like best.

Most of the time I prefer not to use a tent as most of them trap literally pints of water - even if they're supposed to be really well ventilated.

For me a bivvy bag under a tarp is far more comfortable than a tent unless the wind's so srtong that the rain's coming down sideways.

You can get bivvy bags with mosquito nets, so you don't have to suffer if you prefer a bivvy bag and there are hungry insects about. The net should have some support, such as a hoop, or the insects will get you through it if it's against your skin when you're asleep.

If the bivvy bag breathes out water vapour ("MVP", i.e. Moisture Vapour Permeable, e.g. Goretex) it makes a huge difference to your comfort. I never go anywhere without an MVP bivvy, and I usually use one even if I use a tent.

You can get an ex-issue MVP bivvy for thirty quid although it won't have a mosquito net. My Terra Nova has a net but they're well over your budget new, you might pick up a good used one if you're patient.

You could just get some netting and support it with string etc. if you get a bag that has no net but it's a job and a half to make it insect-tight.

Once I woke up with a wasp inside my bag and it couldn't get out!

 

[petrochemicals]

If the bivvy bag breathes out water vapour ("MVP", i.e. Moisture Vapour Permeable, e.g. Goretex) it makes a huge difference to your comfort. I never go anywhere without an MVP bivvy, and I usually use one even if I use a tent.

I have never slept in a nonmvp bivi, how bad are they? . I have an event lite bivvy which is ok when waterproofed but it still has damp in the bag, and rather stupidly when the proofing comes off event lite or goretex lite it leaks! It is supposed to be better than regular goretex stuff by 3 times at breathability, but you have to think is it worth it?

 

[ged]

I have never slept in a nonmvp bivi, how bad are they?

A bit like sleeping in a polythene bag. I have a Czech army bed roll that I use a lot, it's semi-mvp on top and more or less not P on the bottom. But it has a fairly thick blanket and sheet which both wrap right around you and it wouldn't be very comfortable without that.

I also have a Jerven bag which I also use quite a bit. Again it isn't permeable and again it has a thick lining (mine is 200g/m2, there are some with only 80g/m2 and I believe some are now sold without linigs at all). It's a fantastic and very versatile piece of kit but you do have to be careful to keep it aired regularly. I wouldn't want to use it without a lining except as a last resort.

I have an event lite bivvy which is ok when waterproofed but it still has damp in the bag, and rather stupidly when the proofing comes off event lite or goretex lite it leaks! It is supposed to be better than regular goretex stuff by 3 times at breathability, but you have to think is it worth it?

It's always an issue. TBH I don't really rate Goretex, it seems not to last very long, but there are some new high-tech proofing treatments coming along now which might change everything.

 

[bbdave]

It seems a bit of a mine field the bivvy bag choice i think a tent will be first then any recommendations on the tent front?

Dave

 

[tiger stacker]

Is your budget still capped at £100?
Halfords start off at £12

http://www.halfords.com/motoring-tr...gh&cm_re=banner-_-touring+Pages-_-tentsfrom12
More to choose here
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-359116-tents/T-69454_66586

 

[Ed the Ted]

Bish bash bosh: http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/wild-country-tents-zephyros-1-tent-71110048?id_colour=98

No contest in my opinion.

And yes, I use a tarp and bivvi, sometimes alone and sometimes together, as well as a tent every now and again. If I was in OPs position I'd get that tent over a cheap/used bivvi/tarp combo which unless you like getting involved with much more moisture (ie sideways rain) than a a bit of condesation is only really worth it/comfortable in amicable weather, which depending on your plans cannot always be guaranteed (but then I do live in the cairngorms).

 

[petrochemicals]

If you wait a week I will tell you how this measures up to the advertised specs. It reckons it's 130cm tall and a weight of either 1.6kg or 1.9kg according to amazon. If any of this is false I may be sending it straight back!

http://www.ukcamping.co.uk/shop/tents/backpacking-tents/trail-highlander-2-man-tent-1149176.html

Edit:

Tents crap, it is light, but it's also only 180long 120 wide and 100 high. It's going back.

 

[dennydrewcook]

How much is a decent bivi though?


denny 😊

 

[petrochemicals]

A lot of people rate the british army goretex bivvy which is fairly cheap, but design wise I like the mountain equipment borealis bivvy as it's got an enclosed hood, trouble is it's made from event lite or similar again. You can get breathable material that doesn't need treating, given it not as breathable as goretex by about half, it does not wet out though, and doesn't suffer with the dirt( rolling round on the floor gets it dirty fairly quickly) but you are not physically that active in your sleep so there is no vast ammount of sweat.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

If you want a budget tarp + bivvi bag option, I would suggest the Alpkit Rig tarp + Alpkit Hunka Bivvi bag.

I currently have 3 tarps. British army basha, Miltec Flecktarn tarp, RAB siltarp 1. I've not yet used the later in anger, but both of the previous 2 have been great. I got the Miltec as a lighter camo tarp. The BA basha is not a light piece of kit.

A lot of people on this forum are big fans of the DD 3x3 tarp. Personally when I had a play with one, I found it was too big for how I tend to use a tarp, it's also very heavy unless you go for the superlight one. However, being a square tarp, it does open up some of the more weather resistant pitching options including the Adirondack pitch.

I could write you a whole essay on the pro's and cons of various tarps out there, but the reality is that for most of what you might do, then pretty much any tarp will do what you want to do. Choose your price point, and take a punt at the size of tarp you think is most likely to suit you...

J

 

[Quixoticgeek]

It seems a bit of a mine field the bivvy bag choice i think a tent will be first then any recommendations on the tent front?

Bivvi bags aren't actually a mine field.

If you were to get either an Alpkit Hunka or a British Army Goretex Bivvi bag, you won't go too far wrong. I've had my BA bivvi bag now for over 10 years, it's served me fine, I've only once had any condensation on the inside, and that was recently in Luxembourg when there was a heavy frost and I woke up to find the bag was solid. I went back to sleep and after a couple of hours in the morning sun, everything was dry again.

Just remember the few simple tips to make using a bivvi bag more pleasant:

• Don't breathe into the bivvi bag - There are some goretex bags that you can do this with, but they are expensive so not worth worrying about here. Your breath is full of moisture that will cause condensation if you're not careful.
• Don't breathe into the bivvi bag - Technically this is the same as the previous point, but it's so important I felt it worth mentioning twice
• Breathable membranes work best if there is a very slight amount of air flow over the bag, using them inside an enclosed tent is just asking for condensation.

That's it. Nothing more difficult than that. You may find The Book of the Bivvi an enjoyable and informative read if you're interested in trying out bivving...

J

 

[petrochemicals]

[*] Don't breathe into the bivvi bag - There are some goretex bags that you can do this with, but they are expensive so not worth worrying about here. Your breath is full of moisture that will cause condensation if you're not careful.

J

I wouldn't reccomend breathing into a sealed bivvy anyway even if it had goretex. They vent as much as they say in optimum conditions. Like you say breeze over the top, low humidity outside with the dew point the right way round, completely dry, walm, completely clean, massive humidity the one side, pressure the one side. So if anyone of those factors is lost it isn't going to vent 20litres in 24 hours, but even if it vented 1 pint in 8 hours that is going to be adequate for the moisture coming off your body. You get condensation and damp even sleeping in a sleeping bag in a house, especially beneath you. I know the mountain equipment borealis bivvy says you can breathe inside it, but I believe that is to do with the fact it has an open flap.

 

[BigX]

One other option: Snugpak Ionosphere. It was designed to be a sort of posh bivvy, but it's actually more like a convenient tarp. You get a groundsheet with a sewn-in bug net as the inner, then the fly-sheet which is tent-shaped, but acts more like a tarp, i.e. it doesn't go all the way to the ground, meaning airflow and therefore less condensation.

As you're wanting this for canoeing rather than hills, you've got a higher chance of midges (hence needing the net) and wild camping via canoe with a tarp can be tricky as you don't know if there will be a suitable pitch next to a river.

Something like this might save you worrying about fiddling with a tarp: thus more time enjoying the paddling.