Have you got a handy link which cites this Martyn? Not saying I don't believe you but that's quite the opposite to how I understand it and I'd like to edumacate myself.
Grand father arrested for carrying a knife
- Thread starter jojo
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Have you got a handy link which cites this Martyn? Not saying I don't believe you but that's quite the opposite to how I understand it and I'd like to edumacate myself.
Certainly mate.
Criminal Records Bureau...
http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=1871
Says...
Jobs where you may be working with children or vulnerable adults require you to submit to an enhanced CRB check, so cautions will show up.
Note that cautions have no mention under the rehabilitation of offenders act (they are not convictions) so they never become "spent" and therefore will always show on an enhanced CRB check as long as a police force keeps a record of them (usually 5 years but can be much longer).
I don't believe it does. Plenty folk I know are pretty evil characters, but haven't been caught. Good people I know have been in trouble with police.
Balance of probabilities. The longer you go without a police record, the more chance there is that you are not a criminal. Going 64 years without a blemish is a good run.
Police records do have meaning, that why we have CRB checks for some jobs.
plenty of mention of police discresion here But its been removed in a lot of placves and G Brown is talking of doing that across the board (so IMO blaming Coppers for the current knife spree 
)
So once notifyed the Copper may have had no choice
I know southampton has had a Zero tolorance for a while so if your found with a knife that breaks the law they Will take you in as the Copper can NOT use discression hes not allowed by Policy made furtehr up the food chain
teh Guy may have had a resonable excuse of going to teh Next Job directly but choose not to Fight this in court basically accepting the caution and record he could Have stood up and maybe won either on reason or the judge saying oks not in teh public interest to prosicute etc but what would you do at the Sgts desk Accept a coution or risk posibble prison and a Fine or at least free but a big bill etc blackmail i beleieve its called
me i go to great pains to ensure any knife i may accidently forget in my pocket is sub 3" and non safteycatch.
ATB
Duncan
) So once notifyed the Copper may have had no choice
I know southampton has had a Zero tolorance for a while so if your found with a knife that breaks the law they Will take you in as the Copper can NOT use discression hes not allowed by Policy made furtehr up the food chain
teh Guy may have had a resonable excuse of going to teh Next Job directly but choose not to Fight this in court basically accepting the caution and record he could Have stood up and maybe won either on reason or the judge saying oks not in teh public interest to prosicute etc but what would you do at the Sgts desk Accept a coution or risk posibble prison and a Fine or at least free but a big bill etc blackmail i beleieve its called
me i go to great pains to ensure any knife i may accidently forget in my pocket is sub 3" and non safteycatch
.ATB
Duncan
This sort of story makes my blood boil. Ive just joined this site and a good job I did!
I inherited the exact same knife off an uncle some years ago. I have always understood that blades over three inches long and flick knives were illegal. I cannot understand how a knife which folds away and locks can be more dangerous than a fixed blade.
I met a copper that used her common sense once, I was a victim of an unprovoked attack by a young man in the middle of no where. My nine year old daughter whom I home educate was a witness to this attack. I had to make a statement to the police. I told this officer that I believed that as my daughter had a knife in her hand at the time this saved me from serious injury as the man saw it then backed off . I explained to the officer that she did not at any time during the attack intend to use it but that my attacker did not know this. I had given her the swiss knife to cut things for a nature project. The officer , thankfully did not put this in our statement .
This old man has now got his DNa and fingerprints on record so if someone god forbid nicks his knife in the future then commits a serious crime with it theyll go looking or him.
I can see us all in the future having one rucksack to carry all our survival and camping kit and one to hold all the paperwork for all our permits !!!
Its alright changing these laws but its happening so often now that I dont see how anyone has got the time to keep updating themselves with it.
The worst injury and the most painfull that I ever got was from a piece of paper , and I was the one wielding it!!!!
I inherited the exact same knife off an uncle some years ago. I have always understood that blades over three inches long and flick knives were illegal. I cannot understand how a knife which folds away and locks can be more dangerous than a fixed blade.
I met a copper that used her common sense once, I was a victim of an unprovoked attack by a young man in the middle of no where. My nine year old daughter whom I home educate was a witness to this attack. I had to make a statement to the police. I told this officer that I believed that as my daughter had a knife in her hand at the time this saved me from serious injury as the man saw it then backed off . I explained to the officer that she did not at any time during the attack intend to use it but that my attacker did not know this. I had given her the swiss knife to cut things for a nature project. The officer , thankfully did not put this in our statement .
This old man has now got his DNa and fingerprints on record so if someone god forbid nicks his knife in the future then commits a serious crime with it theyll go looking or him.
I can see us all in the future having one rucksack to carry all our survival and camping kit and one to hold all the paperwork for all our permits !!!
Its alright changing these laws but its happening so often now that I dont see how anyone has got the time to keep updating themselves with it.
The worst injury and the most painfull that I ever got was from a piece of paper , and I was the one wielding it!!!!
D
DocBlade
Guest
Hmm, as a police officer I carry a few knives about my person on duty. You'll find a SureFire Delta in my trouser pocket along with a UKPK and a Leatherman in my bag. (the Delta replaced the resuce knife I was issued as I didn't think the lockup was good enough but that's an aside). And off duty you'll normally find the UKPK at least somewhere attched to me and probably my BM Stryker.
Whenever I've stopped and searched someone and found a knife on them I've asked the normal questions (why do you have/need this knife) and if they've given a valid reason they've been let on their way (apart from the time I stopped someone carrying a Strider SNG and then the person was detained for half an hour talking to me about knives).
If I'd been called to this incident then I'd have just given him words of advice and asked the guard to store his knife for him.
I can't help but wonder if Mr Reed took the caution because it was the "easy way out"..
However to recall my own stop and search experience at the hands of the Transport Police I have to say that all police officers are aware of every single law out there. I spent a few very heated minutes explaining to them that my UKPK was very legal and the SF Delta was carried because of work.
Oh and hello again Marytn
Whenever I've stopped and searched someone and found a knife on them I've asked the normal questions (why do you have/need this knife) and if they've given a valid reason they've been let on their way (apart from the time I stopped someone carrying a Strider SNG and then the person was detained for half an hour talking to me about knives).
If I'd been called to this incident then I'd have just given him words of advice and asked the guard to store his knife for him.
I can't help but wonder if Mr Reed took the caution because it was the "easy way out"..
However to recall my own stop and search experience at the hands of the Transport Police I have to say that all police officers are aware of every single law out there. I spent a few very heated minutes explaining to them that my UKPK was very legal and the SF Delta was carried because of work.
Oh and hello again Marytn
Hmm, as a police officer I carry a few knives about my person on duty. You'll find a SureFire Delta in my trouser pocket along with a UKPK and a Leatherman in my bag. (the Delta replaced the resuce knife I was issued as I didn't think the lockup was good enough but that's an aside). And off duty you'll normally find the UKPK at least somewhere attched to me and probably my BM Stryker.
Whenever I've stopped and searched someone and found a knife on them I've asked the normal questions (why do you have/need this knife) and if they've given a valid reason they've been let on their way (apart from the time I stopped someone carrying a Strider SNG and then the person was detained for half an hour talking to me about knives).
If I'd been called to this incident then I'd have just given him words of advice and asked the guard to store his knife for him.
I can't help but wonder if Mr Reed took the caution because it was the "easy way out"..
However to recall my own stop and search experience at the hands of the Transport Police I have to say that all police officers are aware of every single law out there. I spent a few very heated minutes explaining to them that my UKPK was very legal and the SF Delta was carried because of work.
Oh and hello again Marytn
If locking knives are okay for police they should be ok for everyone else and as for stop and search, that's just wrong and I hope you feel ashamed while your doing it.
D
DocBlade
Guest
Hmm no I really don't feel ashamed when I do it. Seeing as last time I did it I managed to detect a youth with a flare gun down the back of his trousers and a few other youths carrying an assortment of Poundland specials. I'd feel more ashamed at having to attend an incident where young Peter McChav has stabbed someone with his kitchen knife or let of his white phos flare gun on a crowded bus.. But thanks for your input.
This is the bit I can't quite get my head around. I was always under the impression that because the acceptance of a caution was an admission of guilt then it was the same as if you had been convicted in court.
No, the police dont convict anyone of anything, only the courts can convict someone.
A police caution is exactly that, a caution offered by the police. It is NOT a criminal conviction. However, in order to accept the caution and go free, you have to admit you have committed an offence and sign a declaration to that effect. This is then kept on record at the police station. How long is up to each constabulary, but there is no set limit. As it's NOT a conviction, it's not covered by the rehabilitation of offenders act, which requires convictions to become "spent" after a set period of time. So a caution could be kept on record indefinitely. An enhanced CRB check will show the caution and detail the offence that you have admitted you are guilty of committing.
Police are required to abide by the same laws as everyone. If you have a good reason, you can carry a lock knife. If you dont, you cant.
The common difference is that police officers know the law very well, they know the exact limits of what they can and cant do. The answer is "learn the law" and be absolutely certain you know it. Then you can work within it with confidence.
I have to disagree. I have several experiences where the police are not aware of/do not understand laws.
I think that was a typo. I think he meant to say...
"I have to say that all police officers are not aware of every single law out there"
"I have to say that all police officers are not aware of every single law out there"
D
DocBlade
Guest
As a matter of interest, what exactly would have happened if Mr Read has refused to accept the caution? In the "present climate" would it be the same for everyone, or would it depend on the interpretation of the police officers involved?
I am also assuming that police officers carry their sharps tools because it is seen to be a necessary safety aspect of their jobs that they carry "in case it becomes necessary to have one to save someone" and part of their uniform? I can accept that.
But most times, they get to the scene of the "crime" or incident after they were called there by a member of the public. You surely could argue as to why a knife with a lock blade is seen as a safety tool for the police but a "potential weapon" for everyone else? Maybe a bus driver could say it could be necessary to have one, as a safety device?
As to me and carrying a bag of sharp carving chisels and knives, would it be the same reaction from the police, whether I carry this in the boot of my car or on public transport when I don't have the car?
Thought I'd ask as we seem to have a Police Officer on the forum! And welcome, by the way.
I am also assuming that police officers carry their sharps tools because it is seen to be a necessary safety aspect of their jobs that they carry "in case it becomes necessary to have one to save someone" and part of their uniform? I can accept that.
But most times, they get to the scene of the "crime" or incident after they were called there by a member of the public. You surely could argue as to why a knife with a lock blade is seen as a safety tool for the police but a "potential weapon" for everyone else? Maybe a bus driver could say it could be necessary to have one, as a safety device?
As to me and carrying a bag of sharp carving chisels and knives, would it be the same reaction from the police, whether I carry this in the boot of my car or on public transport when I don't have the car?
Thought I'd ask as we seem to have a Police Officer on the forum!
And welcome, by the way.
Did the youth in question set off said flare gun? No (or even exist, I doubt it). Did the person you brand as McChav stab someone? No. Or are you the latest weapon in the UK's drive to precrime?
You should feel ashamed, it's because of your attitude to following any and all unjust laws that the UK is now a police state (all good for your job though I'm sure). If a policeman has cause to suspect someone fair enough but if not you leave people alone. If you can't see that it's wrong to erect metal detectors in the street and start harassing people then the country has already gone.
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