Foraging / surviving from the land

[rg598]

The best way to stop all the debate and find out for sure is this:

Anyone arguing that it's possible to live off the land in the UK, for any prolonged length of time, get out there and try it.


And post some pictures when you get back.

There was a thread or two like that before. There weren't many takers, even for a short stay in the wilderness. And this is not the only forum where that has been the case. It seems to be a common thread that runs through our community. We are as rich in excuses as we are in theoretical knowledge.

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

I'd do it- if only I had the time off... It would be an interesting experiment,

 

[rik_uk3]

I'd do it- if only I had the time off... It would be an interesting experiment,

If you go for it make sure to have a full check up at you GP including full blood tests. I'd be interested in the results of the experiment in terms of weight loss, renal function etc.

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

If you go for it make sure to have a full check up at you GP including full blood tests. I'd be interested in the results of the experiment in terms of weight loss, renal function etc.

I'm seriously considering this as a thesis, how would BCUK like to fund it's own experimental archeology project looking at modern man's capabilities to devolve to the lifestyle of prehistoric man?? Ill volunteer as a 'typical' subject (prehistoric life expectancy was from 25-40, so I think 16/17 is fairly representative of middle-aged... Perhaps a small (5-10?) group of mixed volunteers in fair physical condition with outdoors background who can get a month off and commit without external factors (no contact). Of course there'd be need for a site-team inc. medic, etc...

EDIT: of course I realise that is far-cry from what cash could be mustered over the Internet, not to mention the land and permissions needed... So perhaps starting small with a preliminary of a week - 10 days in a small plot of land say a couple of acres to asses the plausibility of a full (month) trial...

 

[joe o]

I'm seriously considering this as a thesis, how would BCUK like to fund it's own experimental archeology project looking at modern man's capabilities to devolve to the lifestyle of prehistoric man?? Ill volunteer as a 'typical' subject (prehistoric life expectancy was from 25-40, so I think 16/17 is fairly representative of middle-aged... Perhaps a small (5-10?) group of mixed volunteers in fair physical condition with outdoors background who can get a month off and commit without external factors (no contact). Of course there'd be need for a site-team inc. medic, etc...

EDIT: of course I realise that is far-cry from what cash could be mustered over the Internet, not to mention the land and permissions needed... So perhaps starting small with a preliminary of a week - 10 days in a small plot of land say a couple of acres to asses the plausibility of a full (month) trial...

Did a week last year. Here's the blog entry about my findings http://joeoleary1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/a-week-in-wilds-part-2-living-from-land_29.html and here's a bit more about the challenge itself http://joeoleary1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/a-week-in-wilds-part-1.html

Cheers

Joe

 

[stuart f]

Did a week last year. Here's the blog entry about my findings http://joeoleary1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/a-week-in-wilds-part-2-living-from-land_29.html and here's a bit more about the challenge itself http://joeoleary1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/a-week-in-wilds-part-1.html

Cheers

Joe

Really good article Joe, thanks for sharing it. Yes your right, the only way to find out for yourself, is by going out and doing it, but safely doing it.
Nothing teaches you more than nature herself.

Cheers Stuart.

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

So is the direction of the thread looking at using primitive equipment (I.e. flint and buckskin), minimalist woodsman outfit (as in mr. O'Learys EXCELLENT blog) or with whatever means available to us in order to truly live off the land excluding car, money, agriculture or rations (a bergan full of kit)???

 

[rik_uk3]

So is the direction of the thread looking at using primitive equipment (I.e. flint and buckskin), minimalist woodsman outfit (as in mr. O'Learys EXCELLENT blog) or with whatever means available to us in order to truly live off the land excluding car, money, agriculture or rations (a bergan full of kit)???

Where, time of year, mobility etc. What do you think the chances of survival for a year are?

 

[rg598]

So is the direction of the thread looking at using primitive equipment (I.e. flint and buckskin), minimalist woodsman outfit (as in mr. O'Learys EXCELLENT blog) or with whatever means available to us in order to truly live off the land excluding car, money, agriculture or rations (a bergan full of kit)???

It seems the direction of the thread is to look at this as an issue that comes up every few weeks, gets written about a lot, and ends up being a general waste of time.

How could you possible do this in a legal way in the UK? Do you have any idea how much of any one plant has to be gathered to satisfy the caloric intake for one person for a single day? Do you have a hunting license for the area where you plan on doing it? Is the type of hunting you have in mind legal in that area? Is the game in season? How much of it will you need per day?

Can you gather enough plants or kill enough game to provide yourself with the necessary calories per day (approximately 2,500-3,500)? Have you done the math as to how much cattail roots it will take to meet that requirement? I have-about 26 pounds worth of processed cattail root... per day! (See Revedin, A., et al. Thirty thousand-Year-Old Evidence of Plant Food Processing, 2010) How many squirrels will you need to kill per day to meet your caloric requirements? The number is between 16-25 depending on how much of the internal organs you can salvage. (See Michele Grodner’s Foundations and Clinical Applications of Nutrition)

What is the realistic plan for doing this? After all, here we are not talking about hanging out in the woods for a week so we can lose a few pounds around the mid section, we are talking about long term wilderness living. Anyone can go out for a week, eat a few wild plants, maybe kill some small game, and then emerge from the forest a few pounds lighter. That's not the point. Here we are talking about sustainable wilderness living. The numbers in the calorie game have to work out, and they have to work out sustainably each day.

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

It seems the direction of the thread is to look at this as an issue that comes up every few weeks, gets written about a lot, and ends up being a general waste of time.

How could you possible do this in a legal way in the UK? Do you have any idea how much of any one plant has to be gathered to satisfy the caloric intake for one person for a single day? Do you have a hunting license for the area where you plan on doing it? Is the type of hunting you have in mind legal in that area? Is the game in season? How much of it will you need per day?

Can you gather enough plants or kill enough game to provide yourself with the necessary calories per day (approximately 2,500-3,500)? Have you done the math as to how much cattail roots it will take to meet that requirement? I have-about 26 pounds worth of processed cattail root... per day! (See Revedin, A., et al. Thirty thousand-Year-Old Evidence of Plant Food Processing, 2010) How many squirrels will you need to kill per day to meet your caloric requirements? The number is between 16-25 depending on how much of the internal organs you can salvage. (See Michele Grodner’s Foundations and Clinical Applications of Nutrition)

What is the realistic plan for doing this? After all, here we are not talking about hanging out in the woods for a week so we can lose a few pounds around the mid section, we are talking about long term wilderness living. Anyone can go out for a week, eat a few wild plants, maybe kill some small game, and then emerge from the forest a few pounds lighter. That's not the point. Here we are talking about sustainable wilderness living. The numbers in the calorie game have to work out, and they have to work out sustainably each day.

They really are amazing stats, genuinely, but are you not intrigued or in the slightest way curious about how early man could have done it? They obviously did, evidence being the 7 billion people alive today, so as impossible as it sounds to muster up those calories per day per person, it can be done (or at least used to be done). The question is how

EDIT: I just think it's amazing that modern man couldn't live like 'primitive' man sustainably if he tried... Such irony

 

[rg598]

They really are amazing stats, genuinely, but are you not intrigued or in the slightest way curious about how early man could have done it? They obviously did, evidence being the 7 billion people alive today, so as impossible as it sounds to muster up those calories per day per person, it can be done (or at least used to be done). The question is how

EDIT: I just think it's amazing that modern man couldn't live like 'primitive' man sustainably if he tried... Such irony

Short answer: Communal living + luck + lack of regulation

Long answer: It can be done, but we have to be realistic about what it will actually take. The reality is that "early MAN" did not do it. "Early MEN" did it. Subsistence living was exactly that, and it required communal gathering of resources to ensure survival. Some communities were lucky or clever and survived, while other were wiped out. They also did it in an environment where there were no regulations on hunting and gathering, and much, much lower population densities. Numerous species were hunted to extinction during that time, and many communities perished due to lack of food.

 

[redandshane]

New York New York !!
so good they named it twice

Lol go back to the op please

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

Short answer: Communal living + luck + lack of regulation

Long answer: It can be done, but we have to be realistic about what it will actually take. The reality is that "early MAN" did not do it. "Early MEN" did it. Subsistence living was exactly that, and it required communal gathering of resources to ensure survival. Some communities were lucky or clever and survived, while other were wiped out. They also did it in an environment where there were no regulations on hunting and gathering, and much, much lower population densities. Numerous species were hunted to extinction during that time, and many communities perished due to lack of food.

You have more knowledge on the subject than me, you're right. It just deeply saddens me to acknowledge we live in today's world
All the best,

 

[Tracker NTS-054]

New York New York !!
so good they named it twice

Lol go back to the op please

Fair enough;
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but I learned this weekend that plantain roots are of high caloric content. They have to be peeled with the back of a knife and boiled twice with a change of water... Anyone tried this? Cheers

 

[rg598]

Fair enough;
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but I learned this weekend that plantain roots are of high caloric content. They have to be peeled with the back of a knife and boiled twice with a change of water... Anyone tried this? Cheers

I can't find anything on plantain roots, but the fruit, according to the USDA has about 34 calories per ounce. To get 3000 calories, you would need about 5.5 pounds of the fruit.

 

[British Red]

The roots are fairly small too!

I am processing roots right now - its what - 11pm? I have been processing roots all day. If I'm lucky, I'll achieve about 70 pounds processed by the end of the day - but that is large roots, grown in one spot, close to where they are being preserved. Of course that isn't "hunter gatherer" - much closer to subsistence farming, but I guess you can extrapolate - I'd be lucky to get 20% of that gathering...very, very lucky. Of course I am putting up stores for the Winter....I have no idea how they managed that.


Carrots and parsnips by British Red, on Flickr

 

[xylaria]

The roots are fairly small too!

I am processing roots right now - its what - 11pm? I have been processing roots all day. If I'm lucky, I'll achieve about 70 pounds processed by the end of the day - but that is large roots, grown in one spot, close to where they are being preserved. Of course that isn't "hunter gatherer" - much closer to subsistence farming, but I guess you can extrapolate - I'd be lucky to get 20% of that gathering...very, very lucky. Of course I am putting up stores for the Winter....I have no idea how they managed that

none of us know how they managed, but by doing something practical we can at least get an idea. Parsnip grows in huge stands in nature, I can collect a quite a bit quite quicky where I have permission to dig them up. I dont think it would be practical for a hunter gather to collect and preserve 70kg of them in one go however, because in my experiance wild parsnip doesnt come in one go like cultivated. I can go out tomorrow and pull up a few days worth of baby ones then some more week and so on, until march when they get too woody. Hazelnuts and acorns however need to picked on mass about now and processed and preserved. There is enough evidence that a years supply of nuts were processed in one go.

 

[British Red]

Oh I accept completely that they managed mate - I suspect based on my own experiences of foraging though it was far from an "aimless" existence. I have foraged for pignuts as an example, knowing exactly when and where they grow in one area. I know the best blackberry bushes, horseradish dykes and when the samphire will be up. It would need a big old range though - and a lot of experience. Not to mention as rg598 says, a lack of laws, hunting seasons etc.

Was it possible for a fraction of our current population with the skills, without the encumbrances?

Would it be possible now? Possibly - if you owned a few thousand acres, broke game hunting laws and seasons

 

[rg598]

I just wrote up some of the numbers I have been trying to gather on the issue: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/09/living-off-land-delusions-and.html

The post is not intended to discourage anyone from trying it, or even to say it is impossible. I just wrote it in an attempt to get a better understanding of exactly what it would take to sustainably live in the wilderness long term.

Just a brief summary of the numbers I posted regarding how much of a certain plant or animal is needed per day per person in order to provide 3,300 calories:

Plants:

Cattail root - 26.5 pounds needed per day per person
Parsnips - 9 pounds needed per person per day
Blueberries - 13 pounds needed per person per day
Lingonberries - 41 pounds needed per person per day
Acorns (processed) - 2 pounds needed per person per day
Burdock root (unprocessed) - 10 pounds needed per [person per day

Animals:

Squirrel - 25 squirrels needed per person per day (as low as 16 if all of the internal organs are consumed)
Rabbit - 4 rabbits need per person per day (3 if all the internal organs are eaten)
Salmon (assuming 7 lb sockeye salmon) - one salmon will provide about two days of food at 3,300 calories per day
Turkey - one turkey will provide approximately two days worth of food at 3,300 calories per day
Deer (mature whitetail buck) - one deer will provide approximately 18 days of food at 3,300 calories per day (up to 21 days if the organs are eaten)
Black bear - one large black bear will provide approximately 21 days of food at 3,300 calories per day

*post edited to reflect that 10 lb of burdock root are needed per day rather than 100 lb. I was a decimal place off in my math. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[boatman]

Right, so they all starved to death ten thousand years ago and we became extinct, Night Night