Given we're an island has anybody factored fish, shell fish and seaweed into the equation? There is more to farm than just the land.
Right, so they all starved to death ten thousand years ago and we became extinct, Night Night
Given we're an island has anybody factored fish, shell fish and seaweed into the equation? There is more to farm than just the land.
Given we're an island has anybody factored fish, shell fish and seaweed into the equation? There is more to farm than just the land.
Well, I gave you the numbers for sockeye salmon. I'm sure others can provide it for other species. At about 50 to 60 calories per ounce of fish, we can do the math for how much of any particular fish would be needed per day, if it is in season and the particular fishing technique is allowed. We can do something similar for shell fish. We have to just find out what the average amount of meat any particular type produces, and then we can see how many of them we would need.
A simpler way of thinking of it would be to take a hunter gatherer and see how they did in modern urban living, where they were plucked from their bountiful forest and plunged into having to survive by finding a job and earning a living, no charity just getting on with it. They couldn't do it if their life depended on it. It's arrogant to think we'd do any better trying to make a living in their environment.
If this reference is accurate http://www.shellfish.org.uk/files/32571SAGB cockles factsheet final lo-res.pdf
then 100g of cockles provides 22% of one's daily protein requirements plus masses of B12 and other goodies. Certainly very healthy additions to the diet and ones that early and even more recent farmers tended to miss out on.
Of course mackerel would be good and if therefore sea resources were permitted then making a living from the wild is certainly possible. I was even bored typing that as it is so blindingly obvious.
There is a strange arrogance shown on this topic in that people are pronouncing on the ability of others to live in a certain way. Why would the subject have minimal equipment for a start? And, why would they not be equipped with some of the skills they needed either?
The proposition was living by foraging etc not with any extra constraints. I would think that using discarded items except for food from civilisation was legitimate if that was the case.
I wonder if we are seeing people who regard the proposition as impossible actually revealing their own fears of the outside or even of a fear of general inadequacy.
Sorry but I'm having a chuckle at this thread. I'm no survival expert and I don't confess to be one but I don't know a person alive who could consume 9 pounds of parsnips in a week, let alone a day! Well in that case I would need 22 Twinkies a day to survive. Quick order me a case I'm eating nothing else for a month!! I think if I did that then I would be dead or severely ill by then. The human body needs a balanced diet and not just a measure of calories. Slow and fast release carbohydrates and a mix of proteins, vitamins and minerals go to keep us going. The carb GDA for men is around 300g per day (about 10 small potatoes), a bit more if you are going to be doing strenuous exercise. The great thing about the human body is it can store sugars in the form of fat (I know plenty about this, believe me!!! ), a reserve that can be used up when food is scarce. If you were to eat 4 rabbits a day then you would probably end up with protein poisoning as there is too much in a rabbit to safely eat in large amounts continuously.
You are taking a figure of 3300 calories (the amount of calories a soldier can burn a day while on the march and lugging a fully laden Bergen, ammunition and weapons) and equating them to a particular food item!!! The average person per day should consume around 2500 calories per day, that's a huge difference to the figures you are quoting. I can happily put together a basic meal with a fishing line and a bit of leg work to collect mushrooms and other edible plants and tubers and I certainly wouldn't be using up 3300 calories doing it. That meal would happily last me for the rest of the day. The thing is I wouldn't just get enough for the meal but I would get enough to store to eat for the next few days.
We didn't just get born with an ipad in one hand and a Big Mac in the other. Man has chosen a path where mass production farming means we no longer need to forage for food but rather we need to earn to provide instead. Unfortunately the method which we use to farm means that we have lost a lot of our wildlife and woodland and therefore some great food sources. However, saying that, for those of us with the skills to forage and hunt it means we can still scrape together a meal from the land either by fishing, hunting or foraging.
Do I think I could survive on my own, living off the land? No of course I don't, but I have very little skills in foraging. However, some of the other guys on here could probably do a very good job of it and for a lot longer than I could. Plus we need to establish how the individual was in that situation, if its through choice then I'm sure the person that undertook the task would have enough knowledge to live off the land. If it was through a natural disaster or **** scenario then I'm sure that the population would have been thinned out enough to lower competition on the food sources. I'm positive if it was a do or die situation I'm sure I would try to manage somehow.
Man has generally been a pack animal and we tend to strive companionship. I think if we were thrown into that situation we would probably be with loved ones or friends that would help out with the hunter gathering and home making etc.
There is a strange arrogance shown on this topic in that people are pronouncing on the ability of others to live in a certain way. Why would the subject have minimal equipment for a start? And, why would they not be equipped with some of the skills they needed either?
The proposition was living by foraging etc not with any extra constraints. I would think that using discarded items except for food from civilisation was legitimate if that was the case.
I wonder if we are seeing people who regard the proposition as impossible actually revealing their own fears of the outside or even of a fear of general inadequacy.
Short answer: Communal living + luck + lack of regulation
Did it in an environment where there were no regulations on hunting and gathering, and much, much lower population densities. Numerous species were hunted to extinction during that time, and many communities perished due to lack of food.
The required amount of daily calories for a person living in the wilderness was provided by Samuel Thayer, author of the books Forager's Harvest and Nature's Garden. The numbers are confirmed by the reccomendations in Michele Grodner's work Foundations and Clinical Applications of Nutrition. The numbers are further confirmed by most long distance backpackers who calculate their daily caloric requirements using the same numbers.
The 2,500 daily caloric requirement that you mention is calculated for a person sitting in an office most of the day. People who practice most of their bushcraft from behind a computer screen often assume that living in the wilderness is the same thing. It is not. Wilderness living has very high caloric requirements.
Even if we go with your numbers however, just for reference porposes, instead of 25 squirrels per day, you would need 19, or 3 rabbits instead of 4.
The other nutritional requirements and restrictions which you point out actually make the task of living off the land harder, not easier. I only addressed the basic caloric requirements, whichbis challenging enough. Of course when we add additional constraints posed by the need for other nutrients, "living off the land" becomes even more of a challenge.
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your argument is incorrect but I think the way your trying to explain it is pretty poor and almost sensationalism. As I said I wouldn't have a chance and would probably only serve to prolong my death by maybe a few weeks. There are guys on here that would have a better chance than me and some may have a very slim chance of success but there would have to be other human contact. I accept I was wrong with my figures (confirmed by my wife who is a GP) and I have never found myself needing to get every scrap of food from natures larder (a good majority of it comes from co-op). You do have to agree though that if you were living on your own you would set snares and bird traps, build fish traps and leave lines in the water and even plant edible food near your home. You could never survive on your own in a nomadic existence unless you were in a tribe or you were prepared to trade labour or goods for food.
In 2013 there would be very little chance of success unless a catastrophic even wiped out most of the UK's population and it became a Neolithic situation where it was every man for himself, national laws were abandoned and land ownership was abolished. If you just wanted to live "off the grid" (which is down right impossible in the world of technology we live in) then would have a better chance of success in places like the forests Russia.
I can see both sides of the argument and I can also see that neither side is entirely right. The reason for me posting was to voice my opinion (isn't that what these discussions are for?) on the way you presented your evidence.
Now where is that order of Twinkies... I'm starving!