Fish Hunter Catapult Testing

[Martyn]

The point is, you don't have to buy it. between the pigs which we rear in a neighbours garden, and the quarry that I hunt, I never have to buy meat from the likes of morrisons/tesco/etc. This is my preferred way to live... well, it's halfway along the road anyway...

No argument with that at all. Just pointing out that people in this country dont need to hunt for food. It's cheaper and easier to get it from a supermarket. If you choose to hunt, rear you own etc, great. But as you say, it's a lifestyle choice not a necessity.

It's not irresponsible. breaking a rabbits leg in half and leaving it to die a slow painful death would be irresponsible.

You mean like if you hit it in the bottom with a catapult and it got down it's hole before you got to it?

And the 'get stuffed' response was merely to counter the 'its irresponsible to shoot at an animal unless you can target it's heart/brain with pin point accuracy 100% of the time' response. I certainly don't know anyone who can do the latter in practice.

You dont need pinpoint accuracy (although with PCP's it's certainly possible to stack pellets at 30 yards), but dont you think a hunter should be reasonably proficient with his weapon before shooting animals? I would think being able to hit a packet of fags off a fence post at 15 yards 9/10 should be the minimum.

I think my point is, while power is important, accuracy is too. On the other hand, I have visions of people with biceps like sparrows kneecaps, popping aneurysms trying to draw their quadruple-strapped catty's and flirting lead balls into orbit, I guess most bunny's have nothing to worry about.

 

[FGYT]

Had I seen this post when it was first posted, I would have done it then.
However, I have removed a number of references to what might be taken as advocating illegal activity - namely poaching.

SF - your review is well written and balanced, but forum rules must be adhered to.

Ogri the trog

Having read what i assume is the same artical (it hasent been edited after this one was ) unmodded on another forum i cant see any hint suggesting/advocating poaching
just refering to the Hunter catapults capability (its marketed and sold on this forum as a Hunting tool ) one was saying he would NOT hunt small game unstill much better "polished" at using
bit odd as the mention of using ot it hunt was left in

there was one ref to a species that wouldnt be usual an i have no idea if a catty is legal for that maybe non lead shot would be the question
but the ref was to what has been taken with a catty i guess as a ref to its capability ( my car can do 150mph dosnt mean i will )

oks Josh didnt reel off every restriction and precaution of hunting with anything ie it must be used on land with the landownwers permission etc etc etc (do we really have to positivly cross ref all sections of the law on every post before we massively over police ourselves well below the law or assume if its not done then any body not doing it was breaking a law ) ie any body mentioning they are driving a vehiculae MUSt state its Moted insured taxed and they are licenced to drive it and are not exceddign the speed limit in fact are only ever traveling at 20mph MAX just to make sure they dont and tho i can carry a 76mm non locking knife i feel that 30mm is the max etc etc
oh cars quite nice drives lovely steerings a bit stiff

read Modded or not its clear Josh knows tho its a powerfull tool its also very difficult to get good enough to hunt with is how it reads

any way
Mods are free to Mod as they see fit

ATB

Duncan

 

[Ogri the trog]

Duncan - I'll answer your points on open forum as I believe it would clarify some items.

I didn't see Siberian Fury's post until a day or so after it was made and there were already a number of replies - thankfully none that mentioned "Going Hunting" or the species again. I do realise that in certain circumstances the taking of one type of prey with a catapult (permissions and accuracy aside) would not be necessarily illegal - however when the post mentioned that practice on accuracy would enable him to "go hunting" not every reader of this forum would equate that phrase with "so long as everything else is in order - it merely precis as "practice till you think you're good enough and then go and shoot whatever you want".
It does not take a great leap of imagination to see that, for some people it could be taken as "the guys on BCUK said its alright to hunt with a catapult" and our name gets dragged through the mud and we're all labelled as "survivalist nutcases"! Our forum rules forbid any discussion of illegal activity and I like to think that we moderate to that level - no one can stop a person using a catapult for plinking practice and that is lawful in anyones eyes - the sticky point comes with a progression on from that view to actually using it to take prey.

There have in the past been solicitors letters requesting information from the forum owners and administration after dubious practices have been discussed and we must remember that our written word can be read by anyone including police, wildlife crime officers and anti-hunting activists. I for one, would like to show an over zealous moderating style and not be constantly under scrutiny from them, looking for ways and means to do us down.

I hope this goes some way to explaining my viewpoint.

Yours

Ogri the trog

 

[Martyn]

oks Josh didnt reel off every restriction and precaution of hunting with anything ie it must be used on land with the landownwers permission etc etc etc (do we really have to positivly cross ref all sections of the law on every post before we massively over police ourselves well below the law

I think in this case, quoting the chapter and verse of the law is a good idea. It begs the question, that if you have the landowners permission to hunt over his land, then why choose an expensive to shoot, wildly inaccurate and potentially cruel catapult over a cheap to shoot, no-licence-required, very accurate air rifle?

Most (all?) of the obvious benefits of hunting with a catapult that I can think of, really only work when the context is illegal poaching.

If that doesnt ring a bell with the moderators, it should.

Of course there are legitimate and legal circumstances, but given the poachers pedigree of the tool, I think it's wise to stress the legality, rather than skim over it.

 

[Siberianfury]

as far as im concerned the catty is more than capable of taking game as long as the shooter is proficent enough to kill, the species i mentioned in the reveiw where as an example, im not saying im going after them in order to hunt them.
with hunting im most likley just going to stick to what i know, my BSA.

the catty is capable of taking game, and many people have proved that, im not going to go into the legalitys and morals of hunting, its just a reveiw of a product nothing more.

personaly i enjoy hunting for food, others dont, its ok their choice im not forcing them to hunt, im just providing a reveiw of a product for those interested.

 

[FGYT]

Of course there are legitimate and legal circumstances, but given the poachers pedigree of the tool, I think it's wise to stress the legality, rather than skim over it.

Maybe in popular media (bit like the popular view of knifes is they kill people ) but not where i come from in the countryside both my grandfathers (one was a game keeper not a poacher) where pretty good with them and they where one of many tools used for various uses
used by groups rodding drays (legal advisary this is a practice of old and maybe illegal now mention of it is not intedned to condon or encourage this practice) for taking squirrels as pest control (ie moving fast targets) obviously back then airgun where not really a hunting tool being low power and inaccurate.

I agree a modern airguns is a far superior tool for the job now


If hunting with a catty is illegal we need to finds the actual act and page no for it as most know it is important to sort these things out. I spent years being told Spearfishing on SCUBA gear was illegal in Uk btu no body could tell me where it said it and know what its not illegal just a myth every body believes.

ATB

Duncan

 

[farmershort]

If hunting with a catty is illegal we need to finds the actual act and page no for it as most know it is important to sort these things out. I spent years being told Spearfishing on SCUBA gear was illegal in Uk btu no body could tell me where it said it and know what its not illegal just a myth every body believes.

ATB

Duncan

I had the same experience chap... I now know better... still doesn't mean you'll find a buddy that likes it! are you on YD?

bsac DL myself... and proud speargunner

 

[FGYT]

Duncan - I'll answer your points on open forum as I believe it would clarify some items.


I hope this goes some way to explaining my viewpoint.

Yours

Ogri the trog

Thank you

tho we may disagree on the point

I do agree and support your choice to MOD and cover the forum etc as you and Tony see fit Moderator is not something i would like to do so all power to you and the team

ATB

Duncan

 

[Siberianfury]

Would you consider 4" groups at 25 yards good enough to hunt with an air rifle?

of course not, an airgun produces alot less power than the hunter, under 12ft/lbs, a hit to a non killzone would be 80% likley to just injure the rabbit and allow it to escape. as for the hunter catty, it produces just over 18ft/lbs of power, hypothetically if i hit a rabbit anywhere center mass or the head, it would be stopped anyway, the energy from the lead shot would either kill it out right or incapacitate it, ensuring the ability to make a clean and quick kill.

so id say 4" groups at 25yards is fine for catty hunting, thats my opinion anyway, doesnt mean im going to try it (just to clarify)

 

[Martyn]

as far as im concerned the catty is more than capable of taking game as long as the shooter is proficent enough to kill...

Nobody is doubting the lethality of the weapon in the right hands mate. The problem is this bit....
"as long as the shooter is proficent enough to kill". The problem with very high power catapults is that the draw weight makes them inherently inaccurate unless you are very used to the weight and/or have shoulders like Goliath. I'm no archer, but I'm sure they will tell you that you need to match the draw weight to your strength and ability on a bow for the same reasons, otherwise you'll just sacrifice accuracy for power, which is pointless if you cant hit anything.

The other issue is the cost, at around £15 quid for 100 .50 cal lead balls, that's more that .22 rimfire, let alone 22 pellets. That makes em very expensive to shoot.

I think they are great fun things, but I cant see how they are a practical (legal) hunting weapon over an air rifle.

 

[Martyn]

so id say 4" groups at 25yards is fine for catty hunting, thats my opinion anyway, doesnt mean im going to try it (just to clarify)

Can you (or anyone) do a video of yourself shooting 4" groups at 25 yards using theraband gold? I'd love to see that - I'm kind of doubting it's possible for your average mortal. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[Siberianfury]

Nobody is doubting the lethality of the weapon in the right hands mate. The problem is this bit....
"as long as the shooter is proficent enough to kill". The problem with very high power catapults is that the draw weight makes them inherently inaccurate unless you are very used to the weight and/or have shoulders like Goliath. I'm no archer, but I'm sure they will tell you that you need to match the draw weight to your strength and ability on a bow for the same reasons, otherwise you'll just sacrifice accuracy for power, which is pointless if you cant hit anything.

The other issue is the cost, at around £15 quid for 100 .50 cal lead balls, that's more that .22 rimfire, let alone 22 pellets. That makes em very expensive to shoot.

I think they are great fun things, but I cant see how they are a practical (legal) hunting weapon over an air rifle.

aye good points, i tend to use my air rifle still as it has increased accuracy, i dont think draw weight has much to do with power, i tend to lock my arm out when shooting it and it seems fine, just a case of geting used to it i suppose.
as for the shot, i bought a 440 ball mould so its fine for that.

in the mean time, im just gonna take everyones advice and use the airgun for most things.

 

[Siberianfury]

Can you (or anyone) do a video of yourself shooting 4" groups at 25 yards using theraband gold? I'd love to see that - I'm kind of doubting it's possible for your average mortal. I'd love to be proven wrong.

i cant no, but having seen evidence of people who can put the catty to effective use i would expect quite afew can.

 

[FGYT]

as for the shot, i bought a 440 ball mould so its fine for that.

this statment in no way advocates stealing lead of the church roof to mould your own cheap catty ammo lead used should be from a legitamate legal scource.

ATB

Duncan

 

[Martyn]

i cant no, but having seen evidence of people who can put the catty to effective use i would expect quite afew can.

Ya think? Some people struggle to do that with a gun.

I'd still like to see it.

 

[Siberianfury]

this statment in no way advocates stealing lead of the church roof to mould your own cheap catty ammo lead used should be from a legitamate legal scource.

ATB

Duncan

lead collected from my airgun pellet trap

 

[phill_ue]

Ya think? Some people struggle to do that with a gun.

I'd still like to see it.

What, a 4 inch group at 25 yards? If you cannot achieve that, sell your gun!

 

[Martyn]

this statment in no way advocates stealing lead of the church roof to mould your own cheap catty ammo lead used should be from a legitamate legal scource.

ATB

Duncan

is there an ikle bit of sarcasm there?

 

[FGYT]

Ya think? Some people struggle to do that with a gun.

I'd still like to see it.

Ive only met a few (like my grandad ) but they grew up with them
me im rubbish with a catty
used to hold sub 1/2" at 40 with me airgun tho and sub 4" rapid with a rifle at 100 (obviously i was legaly allowed to shoot both on the land I was shooting at )
to old to care now

ATB

Duncan

 

[FGYT]

is there an ikle bit of sarcasm there?

Moi ......