Expedition summer 2006

[Andy]

I'm also thinking about doing one section of the journey. I don't know if it would be better if phil and I were there at the same time of one takes the place of the other at some point. I guess it depends on the numbers going.
If there is a way I can feedmyself for the trip I'll go. I wouldn't have a problem for a shorter time.

 

[JakeR]

Andy come for the first part and be ill for the next...

 

[arctic hobo]

Oi! Nobody gets ill on my trip... because if we end up having to eat you, I don't want the runs from having eaten a diseased carcass. And I mean that.
Andy, it'll be good to have you along. I suggest you join where Phil leaves or vice versa, as you can just switch places in the canoe. Otherwise you'll have to take a canoe with you when you both leave. Up to you though.

 

[arctic hobo]

As far as I can tell, the Gill net is legal in Sweden. I have not been able to find anything confirming this. Does anyone know?

 

[Lithril]

Okies we know fish is going to be on the menu and possibly some sort of game. What about foraging, does anyone know anything about the types of flora that'll we'll encounter that'll we'll be able to use. Also are we going to be able to find carbs or is the bulk of any food carried going to have to be a source of carbohydrates.

 

[JakeR]

How much will we be carrying?

Chris...i meant "hi boss, im ill this week, yeah, terrible flu im afraid..."

 

[Lithril]

Discussing this with one of the guys at work, and the first part is looking quite mountainous, have you any ideas of the sort of altitude to do as hardcore climbing with canoes (albeit foldup ones) will be very difficult, you've also got the problems of extra gear need for most people plus training???

 

[arctic hobo]

Well the terrain is sub-arctic forest (taiga), not one I have to admit I have been in. I've done arctic and sub arctic grassland, summer and winter, but not forest.
All of the river part is taiga. I know there are bears, wolverines, lynxes, wolves, arctic foxes and moose too. However it's possible we will see none of these. We do have the advantage that the area is mostly uninhabited so there will be more wildlife.
I expect hare, ptarmigan and raven at the least. I don't know about the edibility of those however. There are apparently many birds and also small rodents. I'd be surprised if there was much vegetation to be foraged - but the rule as I know it is that all arctic vegetation is edible apart from some mushrooms. I've never seen a mushroom up there! The red berries which are everywhere are edible and not bad tasting.
If anyone has a book on the area or on food that covers the area, I'd love to hear from you.
Jake, I wish you hadn't brought that up! :shock: The weight for the walking will be a lot. It depends on what you're bringing, but you'll need at least:
Clothes - one or two sets is fine by me
Canoe - kinda heavy
Canoe bits eg oars and patches
Buoyancy aid - I'm making that compulsory
Basha & Sleeping bag
General bushcraft kit eg axes, knives, bowdrills if you like
Food, whether just emergency food or supplementary
I'm sure people will come up with more. The good news is that 80% of the time it'll be safe in a canoe and not weighing you down. The bad news is that as we start and finish at sea level, we have to climb the full height of the river we will be going downhill on...

 

[arctic hobo]

Lithril: Well as I said a while back it won't be easy. But the elevation will not be high and the climbing will not be any more than going up hills. Not any scrambling or mountaineering (although we are right by the Lyngen alps, if anyone else is a climber I'm hoping to try a few faces in the evenings ): )
When you say training, what specifically do you mean? :?:

 

[Lithril]

You've just answered the question, just looking at the map was wondering whether ropes etc would have been needed as the terrain looks quite mountainous.

 

[bambodoggy]

Guys, just to rub salt into my wounds....you now mention climbing!!! From what you've said it doesn't look like you'll be doing much in the way of climbing but rather just hill walking....however... bear in mind that we do not know this river very well, are there gorges? If so and you go through them then you either need to be able to climb out of them if the water is too wild or the waterfall is too high or....you'll need somebody to scout ahead (maybe a kayak with a walkie talkie) to check what you're going to find in the gourge....actually the same applies just to portage the canoes down the banks of some falls if you don't want to walk miles out of your way.....so maybe climbing knowledge might be useful....

Now, bearing in mind I can't make all the trip.....and it's still going to take a fair bit of lovelyness on my part towards my wife to come at all....:
I've offered canoe training as a BCU Senior Instructor (open canoe)....
It just so happens I am also an MLTB SPSA as well.... so if you want a bit of climbing training before you go I might as well offer that too....
Not saying you have to but a few basic tips might make a difference!
Anyway, offers there if you guys feel you want/need it.

Andy, now that I've read you're other thread and the bit on here about youor diet, your PM makes so much more sence to me....lol....I was a little lost for a while! ):
I'm sure you'll be fine for the whole trip mate...on top of all the other kit you'll have to take I can't see being a veggie will make much of a difference.

I'm not great with arctic food but I remember Ray Mears saying that the Telemark chaps managed to live for the best part of a year on nothing but reindear moss....lol....good luck the BCUK Team!!!!! ):

That does sound like a heck of a lot of gear you're going to be humping...is there anyway you could have the boats waiting for you when you get where your walking to....or would that spoil the authenticness of the trip? What did the original team do? did they carry it all?

You seem fairly well prepared for first aiders (yes, I'm a 4 day first aider too) but does anyone know what (if any) insurrance the team are going to need just in case anything does kick off? It's a right pain waiting for a chopper that isn't coming unless you have your Barcleycard ready!

Chris, glad you're not too phased if I only do some of the trip....I really hope I can!
I was thinking to do the second half for two reasons: firstly it means I'm with you guys for the river bit (nice head on) and secondly it means I miss out on carrying that sort of weight on foot (selfish head on)....I've carried silly weight while in the TA and it soon becomes a real bore!!! lol
Maybe I could meet you near Nedre Soppero and then come down the river with you.....or if you opt to have the boats go on ahead then I could meet you all there with the boats ready, the fresh rations bought and the kettle on..... ): just an idea to kick about.

Right, prattelled on enough for this evening! night all....

 

[Wayne]

Insurance wise you cant beat the BMC for dragging you back from the brink. They have years of experience of dealing with people smashed up in various wild places. Not too expensive either. Minimum each person should have is a dangerous activity type travel insurance.

 

[Wayne]

i think we should have a couple of meet ups next year to get to know one another as a group. Possibly start with a canoeing session.

 

[tomtom]

if you guyes do you bcu qualification they will insure you and your boat for very little ontop of your membership!

Edit: not certain if it is valied outside of britian though!

 

[arctic hobo]

The climbing is optional Phil: we go past the Lyngen alps in our canoes, which will take perhaps a day. So an evening spent climbing up from our camp at the foot will not be a wasted one
There are gorges. At least, I know of one large gorge mentioned on the website guide. Climbing might well be useful for getting out, but we will need a lot of kit and also everyone must be able to climb competently - and what about the boats and kit? Perhaps it might be better to portage around the larger gorges for safety. Judging from the terrain I am fairly sure we will be able to stay by the river as we walk.
I think a kayak with a walkie talkie is a very good idea. Thanks very much for the offer of training - I too think that it's a good idea, if only as a safety net.
Having the boats taken to Kilpisjärvi, where the original route ends and the river starts would be a good idea, but I don't know how possible it would be. Connections to the outside world are fairly limited up there!
Possibly I could go up before the rest of you and take a quick trip to the town to drop them off, then meet back you in Tromsø.
Given your experience it's probably best that you are with us for most of the river.
I think we'll make insurance for everyone compulsory. Meeting you midway with food and perhaps canoes sounds to me a brilliant idea. Save weight and also it's a midway point for people in general to come and go if they have an emergency or want to join halfway. I suggest that we get the canoes earlier though as Nedre Soppero is a fair way downriver, meaning more walking.
Wayne, meet ups are a good idea. See if we can get everyone to come, and go canoeing. Almost like a practice of the real thing.
Another thought I had was rubber boats. Although they are more prone to puncture and are less comfortable, would they be suitable?
The advantages I see are very great stability, high load carrying capacity, and low weight. However the nearest I have got to using one is a yacht tender with an outboard. Does anyone who has experience on them have any thoughts?

 

[bambodoggy]

I have no idea at all about rubber boats from personal experience but I'd say wherever you can go in an open canoe you can more than likely go in a rubber raft-style boat.

I'm told they are easy to handle and you can get three or four people in one so it might be a good idea. They also pack up as they deflate.....but (always a but) I believe they are rather heavy so might only be an option if you meet the boats at the river and don't carry them.

If climbing isn't useful then I can show you all basic Z-drags for pulling each other off rocks etc and if you need to pull a boat up the side of a gorge then it's just a case of climb/scramble up with the end of a rope, tie yourself on and then haul it up (maybe through a stitch plate for safety)....going down is the same in reverse!!! ):

I'm more than happy to do a few canoeing days for those that are going....but I do only have one open boat!!!!

 

[JakeR]

Wow, all this is beeing properly analysed, great stuff...

I do some climbing, but never outdoors. I got to around grade 6b and slightly better with bouldering. Bambodoggy, thanks for the training offer mate, very much appreciated...:biggthump

 

[Wayne]

I have some reasonable climbing experience in summer and winter. Nothing too serious on the grade front as i am short and now fat. Looks like a serious training regime is needed for the trip. Back to the point i am happy to bring my climbing gear if the group things it will help. I quite liked the idea of rubber raft style boats as well. Not so romantic as canoes but may be more practical.

Chris any idea of the distance we will be walking before the river section?

I am assuming mobile phone coverage will be zero so what method of communication with the outside world will we have should the worst occur?

 

[Andy]

rafts may be more flexible if somebody get a minor injury. I've lost track of how many will be coming

 

[willie]

lol as bushcrafters u should make ur own canoes