Does my knife have an imperfect heat treatment?

[HillBill]

Just had a look on here
http://www.bucorp.com/files/aisi_o1.pdf

And if you follow the graph to the correct annealing temp, It seems that it would get down to around 25 RC. 12c27 is about the same too as its annealed hardness is 235HV (vickers)

If you test a piece Mark you find it is really low about 8 Hrc if I remember correctly. I tested a piece once just out of curiosity.

 

[Jacknife]

Sell it? "anyone want to buy a knife with a a bad heat treat?"

That's what car boot sales are for

I gave my bad ones away and lost the money

 

[Perrari]

Hi Mark
On page 3 of the link you sent it says that 01 in its delivered state (soft annealed) is approx 190 HB, which equates to about 13-14 Hrc. Most conversion charts that I have seen dont go down that low on Rockwell C, but this on Wikipedia does. So I was a bit out with 8Hrc, but I remember it being very low. If I remember tomorrow I will test another piece.

Maybe I am missing something in the link you posted ? I am no metallurgist.

Apologies Wook for hijacking your thread.

Just had a look on here
http://www.bucorp.com/files/aisi_o1.pdf

And if you follow the graph to the correct annealing temp, It seems that it would get down to around 25 RC. 12c27 is about the same too as its annealed hardness is 235HV (vickers)

 

[HillBill]

Hmm, if you look on the data sheet for 12c27, there is both soft annealed AND annealed
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/materials-center/material-datasheets/strip-steel/sandvik-12c27/

I'm no metallurgist either I missed the bit you pointed out. I was going on the tempering graph and the steady fall off rate of the RC on that and just followed it down (off the graph) to annealing temp (780c) and the RC it would achieve at that, so it was only a rough figure

Sorry Wook

Hi Mark
On page 3 of the link you sent it says that 01 in its delivered state (soft annealed) is approx 190 HB, which equates to about 13-14 Hrc. Most conversion charts that I have seen dont go down that low on Rockwell C, but this on Wikipedia does. So I was a bit out with 8Hrc, but I remember it being very low. If I remember tomorrow I will test another piece.

Maybe I am missing something in the link you posted ? I am no metallurgist.

Apologies Wook for hijacking your thread.

 

[Wook]

No worries. I've done grumbling for the mo

 

[Perrari]

No worries mate, I see what you mean. Science aside I think that Wooks knife for £50 is a raw deal.
P.S. I love the scales on Barn Owl's new knife.

Hmm, if you look on the data sheet for 12c27, there is both soft annealed AND annealed
http://www.smt.sandvik.com/en/materials-center/material-datasheets/strip-steel/sandvik-12c27/

I'm no metallurgist either I missed the bit you pointed out. I was going on the tempering graph and the steady fall off rate of the RC on that and just followed it down (off the graph) to annealing temp (780c) and the RC it would achieve at that, so it was only a rough figure

Sorry Wook

 

[robin wood]

What was, was. What is, is. Sheffield is no longer the steel superpower it once was. Its a shame as it had a well deserved reputation. There are still some top makers there, no doubt about it.

Sheffield built it's reputation on selling cheap functional cutting tools to folk who didn't expect to shave with pocket knives, they had razors for that. Sheffield makes and sells more steel today than it ever did and still leads the world at the cutting edge of steel technology, the crucible things that go around nuclear reactors, the drive shafts for hydro electric plants and the rollers for all the Chinese steel rolling mills. Anyone who has visited Forgemasters would be in no doubt about the skill level and the justifiable reputation. Wrights are not my favourite Sheffield folders but it is unreasonable to buy the cheapest and expect the best. We live in times when folk expect knives to be harder and to sharpen less often. This whole thing about stropping hundreds of times our grandparents would have laughed at. They used soft knives coarse stones and touched them up often, it's a different system, it works, but there is no question it's not what today's knife buyers want or expect and they would be far better for today's market taking them to 58 Rockwell.

 

[HillBill]

Fair points Robin People and requirements change as you say, so ideally the supply needs to shift with the demand.

 

[Wook]

I see what you're getting at Robin, but I think the issues I've been having with this knife go beyond a "philosophy of use" thing. My 25 year old Sheffield knife has much better edge retention, as does my Opinel Carbone, and they both come from the old school of knife making and use.

If the Arthur Wright had equalled the blade on those two, I'd have been a happy bunny.

We'll see - the new grind Heinnie put on it may make it more usable. I think I'll give it a light strop just now in fact.

 

[Wook]

UPDATE

What a difference a year and a half makes. I just recently lost my Vic Tinker, so I was rooting around in my knife drawer for something to carry in the meantime. I came upon my Arthur Wright, and decided to carry it for a while.

Truthfully I don't know what I was complaining about. I think perhaps I was getting a bit obsessed about that razor edge newly sharpened knives have, whereas most used knives spend most of their life with an edge below that level of sharpness. So I guess you were right Robin, and I was just too anal to realise it. While this knife doesn't retain its hair popping edge that long, its edge remains more than sharp enough to, for example, cut 550 paracord without the need for any "sawing" for quite some time. This is more than adequate for day to day use. The relatively soft metal also means you can put that hair popping edge back on it with just a few strokes on a polish loaded strop.

It is also very pretty I'm getting more mellow as I get older, which probably helps my change of attitude here.....

 

[Magentus]

Wook - that is a lovely looking knife. I'm glad you've come round to it again. I used to get obsessive about retaining a hair-popping blade, but in reality most of us don't shave with our pocket knives and so they're adequate for most tasks. I've also found that ironically, since I'm more relaxed, my sharpening abilities have vastly improved!

It's even more special for you as it's a gift from your loved ones.

Do you have any more pictures of it?

 

[Samon]

That's why I prefer toothy these days. Can't be arsed to sharpen any of my pocket knives like a razor anymore, they all get blunt too quick anyway IMO, regardless of the steel!

I think my GEC bullnose and opinel are the sharpest, but they don't have crappy hollow grinds, secondary bevels or any of that sorta jazz.

Nice to see you're happy in the end. I won't buy anything mass produced under the good old Sheffield name, but I do appreciate the ones that work well and look nice.

 

[Wook]

How's this Magentus?

 

[Magentus]

Thank you Wook - that is a gorgeous pocket knife! Glad you've rediscovered it.

 

[John Fenna]

I have a, slightly less pretty, A Wright folder as one of my EDCs.
It too needs fairly regular sharpening but I love it's look and feel and I enjoy sharpening knives (my strop lives next to my chair in the living room ) so I find it no problem at all

 

[Hedgecrafter]

Lovely pocket knife.

Reading the first post I would have advised that you carry a sak and use it in the same way you do the a wright. That would show you how the knife compares against a cheap but highly acceptable knife.

 

[John Fenna]

Antler handled Wright in my right pocket, Antler handled SAK in my left pocket, Leatherman in my jacket pocket.
The tools on the latter two get used a lot - the Wright is what I choose to whittle with and for general cutting ... kind of says it all for me

Lovely pocket knife.

Reading the first post I would have advised that you carry a sak and use it in the same way you do the a wright. That would show you how the knife compares against a cheap but highly acceptable knife.