In reality its common sense so why do politians not see it putting the country in this situation. Same goes with our lack of manufacturing skills
Dig for Survival
- Thread starter British Red
- Start date
I think santaman is quite correct - just be because the population on a species can reach a peak by using up finite and dwindling resources does not make it sustainable. There already water wars and famines in this world.
There have been wars about water and food, and famines, for the whole of recorded history. Are you therefore going to use that as an argument to say that a human population of a million or so is unsustainable world-wide? It has as much validity as your 2 billion!
Actually, the last reports I saw put sustainable population - using currently-practised agronomic practices - at 9 billion. However, the key phrase here is "currently-practised". Its like all the doom-sayers going on about no more oil in 20 years - funnily enough, they've been saying that for at least 30 years! And even if/when it is all used up, so what? We can already produce oil from bugs feeding on waste organic products. So there's your plastics and other organic-chemistry/benzine ring industries sorted. We can run atomic power plants for the indefinite future (uranium being on of the most common elements on the planet, surprisingly - just a bit more difficult to extract than some..) Nuclear fusion will come on-stream in the next few decades too. So there's your power sorted. And with power comes water - desalination plants. And with power and water comes food from hydroponics. And all that from existing technologies - who knows what the guys and gals in white lab coats will come up with in the future?
So, no, I don't buy into the doom and gloom merchants who are trying to sell me redemption from over-population as long as I do what they say. (...particularly if their instructions basically mean going back in time to pre-civilisation methodologies, and presumably a killing-off of 90% of the existing population...). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reducing or reversing population growth, and there are encouraging signs that this is already happening - its in reverse in the West, and even the developing world shows a reduction in the rate of growth. But please, please give up on the inaccurate "statistics" and scare tactics that show we are all doomed...........................
I think that the distribution of resources and distribution of the folk who exploit them is a little off though. Humankind through his "creativity" has in the main managed to avoid totally going under in areas where resources as thin on the ground by invention, trade and violence. But it can't be kept up indefinately, we should cut down populations in pushed areas, but that's a thorny and unpopular subject where some folk get into trouble.
Andy, if you read carefully, you will notice that I published no statistics or scare tactics, nor was I discussing world population - merely food security in the UK according to a a scientifically led, government backed, report
Apologies, BR - I was referring to Ellen's quote re the 2 billion - sorry if it came across that I thought you were making that claim!
As to the rest, I think it would be interesting to see what modern technology and disease-resistant modern crop species could produce if UK farms went over fully to edible crop production, rather than being set-aside, or used to grow bio-fuels (consider how inefficient crop production was in WW2 - modern techniques and crops should be able to at least quadruple production then). In an emergency situation, It would also be interesting to see how much more food could be produced if, for example, much of the grazing land was converted to - say - soya production, as at least that would provide high volume and high-protein alternatives to beef, with sheep/goats filling in on difficult land areas like hill-farms.
I think that my original objections to Ellen's original post was two-fold; firstly, the 2 billion sustainability re global population, and secondly the inability to look forwards to future solutions. Guess I'm just an optimist about man's ability to come up with solutions to problems, despite all our dark ways on occasion!
No harm, no foul. For me, I think its important that we do consider how to feed ourselves - we need to be able to do that or be at the mercy of those who may need the food they grow and energy they produce for themselves. Finally it seems the scientific community and government are starting to see that - I hope they act on it.
Growing food is not the answer , de-population is , according to the conspiracy theorist WW3 . The Georgia Guide stones reads ,"population down to 500,million" , instead of our 7 billion we have today .
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